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John Kerry's Contribution to Winning the Peace?
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rbshirley
Founder


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:53 pm    Post subject: John Kerry's Contribution to Winning the Peace? Reply with quote

DougReese wrote:

And as for burying the vestiges of western culture, well,
you should see them now -- nothing BUT western culture!

I guess ole' Nikki {sic Khrushev}, would be turning over in his grave.

I suppose Ho{sic Chi Minh} would be too, if he was, well, in it.

.


That is a hopeful sign: We may yet be considered by history to have
"won the peace" in South East Asia as part of the victory over "the
evil empire" in the cold war. This despite the best efforts of Kerry, his
actress & North Vietnamese mentors, and the other politicians in the
60's and 70's that tried to make us feel ashamed of being Americans

The following is a repeat of an excerpt of a previous post, an article printed
in the Minneapolis-St Paul Tribune this past February by David Pence. He
spent a year in jail as a result of his opposition to the SEA war and refusual
to sign up for the draft. His words carry more weight and with much greater
eloquence than I could ever hope to muster

==============================

"Antiwar activists who got it wrong"
Excerpts from David Pence's article

But even as an activist, I was shocked at Kerry's characterization of American
atrocities in Vietnam as commonplace. The image of the American solider
as "babykiller" was being born. In a foreign country, our men were shot for
the uniform they wore. In their own country they could not wear it for shame.
For other men, flag-draped boxes sealed them from such insults. After
Kerry's testimony, he faced no such shame. To the McGovern Democrats,
he became a hero. He was headed to elected office as the solider who
hated the war. He had a receptive audience in Massachusetts for his
stories of atrocities by soldiers and criminality by the government.

By 1972 if a man would go to jail or a returning solider would repudiate
the war, he was assured an influential community of support and adulation.

For the men who returned from military duty, there was no such honor.
Their shame came not from guilt about their actions as soldiers but from
propaganda of the antiwar movement.

The war against the Soviet Union was the great moral struggle of the
post-WWII generation. Leaving Vietnam did not end the fight against
communism but changed the battlefield to Catholic Poland and Muslim
Afghanistan. The left's complaint was not about Vietnam as a particular
battlefield but the Cold War as a worthy enterprise. Kerry described the
Cold War as "the mystical war against communism" in his infamous Senate
testimony (April 1971). It turns out that communism was not so mystical
-- not in the killing fields of Cambodia or the captive nations of Eastern
Europe or the Islamic southern rim of the Soviet Union.

I am ashamed of my role in those not-so-glorious '60s. I honor John Kerry
the solider. But in this time of war, we must repudiate his disgraceful
depiction of the American solider in Vietnam, his mistaken understanding
of the Cold War, and his equivocation in our present war.

For those tempted to use a soldier's story to advance their worldview ....,
take pause. We were wrong then; you don't have to be wrong now.

==============================

To read how the North Vietnamese Communist government continues, even
to this day, to provide "an influential community of support and adulation" for
John Kerry and his coordinated activities in the 1970's, visit this web page:

.
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040604194804799

.



A display of John Kerry in what was formerly called the "War Crimes Museum" in Ho Chi Minh City.
Showing him being honored by the Chairman of the Vietnamese Communist party for his support
in the early part of the 1970's of their political campaign to defeat the US. {May 28/June 2, 2004}


Quote:

"Excerpt from John Kerry's 1971 Congressional Testimony"

.

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks,
that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and also the Provisional
Revolutionary Government .... and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it
has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance
Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many
other officials of their Government, if the United States were to set a date
for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.


The number two man at the Saigon talks to Ambassador Lam was asked by the
Concerned Laymen, who visited with them in Paris last month, how long they felt
they could survive if the United States would pull out and his answer was 1 week.
So I think clearly we do have to face this question. But I think, having done what
we have done to that country, we have an obligation to offer sanctuary to the
perhaps 2,000, 3,000 people who might face, and obviously they would, we
understand that, might face political assassination or something else. But my
feeling is that those 3,000 may have to leave that country
.


My wife's father was one of perhaps hundreds of thousands, if not millions,
of South East Asians that never returned from the "re-education" camps set
up by Communist regimes after the US Congress followed John Kerry's advice,
as provided to him by the people he met with in Paris, to stop all support of
governments in the region, and thereby allow the Communists to disregard
their signed "peace treaty" and directly invade and take over of the South
with the enthusiastic material and technical support of the Soviet Union and
the People's Republic of China.

Not to mention the additional thousands that had to flee the country by boat
My son-in-law is one of those that spent days at sea before being rescued as
a small child and, fortunately, ended up in an orphanage in the US,


.
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rbshirley
Founder


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: John Kerry's Contribution to Winning the Peace? Reply with quote

Quote:

To read how the North Vietnamese Communist government continues, even
to this day, to provide "an influential community of support and adulation" for
John Kerry and his coordinated activities in the 1970's, visit this web page:

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040604194804799



Quote:

To Bill ......

I copied all of the photos you took at the museum, posted them with your
notes on a board and stood near the The Vietnam Veteran's Wall in DC
for all of the passersby to read. I plan on doing that every weekend and
some weekdays through the election.

Thanks for everything and I hope you get home safely and soon.

Tony Snesko, BM2

Swift Boat Sailor, PCF #58,





Despite the efforts by the Democrats to smear Swift Boat sailors
and link them to "Right Wing Republican Sponsors," we continue
to do what we can with the meager resources and manpower we
have. We are NOT affiliated with ANY political party and we fund
our activities out of our own pocket.

"The Invisible Veteran Majority" WILL get the truth out!!

.
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volcano
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it totally amazing that everyone ignores Bush's actions during the Vietnam war and gets all uptight over someone who actually tried to do what he believed in. Get over it--it was what--35 years ago?

You might also consider you are being USED. I urge you to consider checking other sources, before believing the trash that flies over the net:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

"Kerry was injured yet again on 13 March 1969, in an action for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself) : Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. "
=======
ANd then check the The Kerry for President site http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/ which debunks much of these also~~
John Kerry Earned His Medals
UPDATED 4.21.04

RIGHTWING FICTION: John Kerry wasn't seriously wounded in Vietnam and didn't deserve his medals.

FACT: John Kerry volunteered for service and served honorably and courageously under fire. His fellow crewmates have attested to his leadership, skill, and bravery. On April 20th, the Kerry Campaign posted on its official website the military records that the U.S. Navy provided Kerry on his active military service from 1966-1970. According to the New York Times, "Several describe him as a gutsy commander undertaking a dangerous assignment in Vietnam and detail some of the actions that won three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star." "Throughout his four years of active duty, Kerry's superiors gave him glowing evaluations... narrative comments from his commanding officers said he was diplomatic, charismatic, decisive and well-liked by his men." "He was recommended for early promotion, and when he left the Navy in 1970 to run for Congress, his commanding officer said it was the Navy's loss." [NY Times, 4.21.04]

In an email to supporters, Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill said, "RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie and Bush Campaign Manager Ken Mehlman are running an ugly smear campaign on John Kerry's service in Vietnam. We've seen this before. In 2000 they ran a "whisper campaign" against John McCain, suggesting his time as a POW made him unfit for the Presidency. Then in this campaign, their surrogates have even questioned Max Cleland's war heroism -- a man who received a Silver Star and lost three limbs in the Vietnam War. The fact is they're terrified of running against John Kerry's war record. And so they're desperately doing everything they can to try to tear it down."

====
ANd last but not least: You might also check out just WHO the Swift Boat Veteran for Peace are?

When the 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' launched its campaign against John Kerry, leadership and guidance were provided by Republican activists and presidential friends from Texas -- notably Houston attorney John E. O'Neill and corporate media consultant Merrie Spaeth. Indeed, although the group made its debut at a press conference in Washington, it looked and sounded like a Texas GOP operation. Hmmmm????

[b]edited by Moderator. Everybody can search for themselves the regulations for awarding of a Purple Heart. It just takes up space here.[/b]
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DougReese
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

volcano wrote:


RIGHTWING FICTION: John Kerry wasn't seriously wounded in Vietnam and didn't deserve his medals.



As far as the being wounded seriously part goes, he wasn't. And, I might add, he says so.

Doug

And who said I wasn't "fair and balanced?"
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carpro
Admin


Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

volcano wrote:
I find it totally amazing that everyone ignores Bush's actions during the Vietnam war and gets all uptight over someone who actually tried to do what he believed in. Get over it--it was what--35 years ago?

?


Wanna bet we have another noncombatant here? As in not there, did not participate and never will. Kerry wanting to be CIC is not 35 years ago. If he goes away, so will we.

We keep having to explain this. Bush doesn't matter. This is about Kerry and no one else.

Read my tag.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpro wrote:
volcano wrote:
I find it totally amazing that everyone ignores Bush's actions during the Vietnam war and gets all uptight over someone who actually tried to do what he believed in. Get over it--it was what--35 years ago?

?


Wanna bet we have another noncombatant here? As in not there, did not participate and never will. Kerry wanting to be CIC is not 35 years ago. If he goes away, so will we.

We keep having to explain this. Bush doesn't matter. This is about Kerry and no one else.

Read my tag.



Not an original word out of his mouth. Probably doesn't even know about VVAW and Wintersoldier. Claims RNC connections which all members of the group know don't exist. I suppose he thinks we should be using Kerry's PR firm instead of one run by the wife of one John O'Neill's law partners for the last 30 years. Hell, I wish the RNC did support us....we might have some money for the campaign.

Kancel Kerry and Kome up with a new Kandidate and we'll quietly go away. That is, in our present form! Laughing
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB


Last edited by ASPB on Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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hist/student
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Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

retracted

Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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rbshirley
Founder


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

volcano wrote:
RIGHTWING FICTION: John Kerry wasn't seriously wounded in Vietnam and didn't deserve his medals.


dougreese wrote:
As far as the being wounded seriously part goes, he wasn't. And, I might add, he says so.


You both miss the point and are deflecting the discussion from the real issue.

This Swift Boat Sailor, as do most, could not care less about Kerry's VN service.

I did NOT even mention his military service above or in any post on this forum.

What Kerry did or did not do during his short tour in Vietnam is NOT RELEVENT

What IS RELEVENT is the YEARS he spent in the following activities:

a) MET with the representatives of an enemy government during a time of war
b) EMBRACED their propganda agenda and led a media blitz to project them
c) REPUDIATED his own military service in his book and in media events
d) RECOMMENDED that the terms of surrender of the enemy be adopted by Congress
e) TESTIFIED that the Communists indicated they would only take modest retribution
{Perhaps 3,000 people. The actual number is unknown but in the tens of thousands}
f) ACCUSED military personnel in VN of widespread and commonplace war crimes
g) CONTINUED to oppose policies and actions of the US govenment to contain
or end Communist aggression against other free world countries.

The above are not my opinions, they are in public documents available to all

And for this he has been honored by the Vietnamese Communist's in a
museum in Ho Chi Minh City in a place next to other honorees such as
Communist Cuba, the F.A.L.N and Al Fatah for the support they gave to
the North Vietnamese in their politcal war against the US.

As Pence says so elequently: "After Kerry's testimony, he faced no shame"

But for my relatives, there was only death and deprivation derived from
Kerry's acts that Volcano and others try to forgive as "peaceful" protest

So it is reasonable to have an opinion that Kerry's use of his military service
in Vietnam as being highly valued credentials to be President and Commander
in Chief is, at a bare minimum, hypocritical, exaggerated and contradictory

This is the information that needs to be made more visible to the public before
they vote in November.

.


Last edited by rbshirley on Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:58 pm; edited 4 times in total
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DougReese
Former Member


Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hist/student wrote:
Doug that is 'fair and balanced'

What is your take to the link with all the photo's from the musseum??

I had questioned the pictures credibilty to some degree out of just common sense. Having lived in D C along time I take EVERYTHING with a teaspoon of salt. However as a photographer I knew you could not fake the reflection on the shot of Kerry, There was surely a N vietnam flag being reflected in the shot without the flash and the copy of the current newspaper.

Now looking at that link I have no doubt of the authenticity of the entire story.

What does Doug Reese say?


I think they were wise (for the reasons you mention) to go back and take some more photos of that place. I have no doubt it is authentic. If you haven't viewed the site since it first came out, go back and look again.

I have asked a friend (a Vietnamese who lives there) to go over there and give me his take on that room.

Doug
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks
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DougReese
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rbshirley wrote:
volcano wrote:
RIGHTWING FICTION: John Kerry wasn't seriously wounded in Vietnam and didn't deserve his medals.


dougreese wrote:
As far as the being wounded seriously part goes, he wasn't. And, I might add, he says so.


You both miss the point and are deflecting the discussion from the real issue.

This Swift Boat Sailor, as do most, could not care less about Kerry's VN service.

I did NOT even mention his military service above or in any post on this forum.


Good, as I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to volcano -- to something he said.

Doug
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LewWaters
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volcano, you urge us to "get over it," yet we aren't the ones making a big deal of it all, Kerry is. We know him as a protester who went before Congress and lied about our activities and service. We also know him as a person who was awarded medals under questionable circumstances. He claimed to have thrown them away in protest, yet has them hanging on his walls today.

He was speaking out against the war long before enlisting in the Navy and I can only surmise his "service" there was part of a political ambition he is quoted as speaking of back in 1966 while in college. Most true veterans would have been embarrassed to have accepted purple hearts for the "wounds" he "suffered."

He admits to meeting personally with the "enemy" while we were still fighting them and has personally admitted to war crimes back in 1971. Since then, after he was elected, his voting record shows (when he could be bothered to show up) he votes against the military and military matters almost all of the time. He is for increased taxes for others while taking advanatge of any tax shelter he can hide under.

And now, you come here telling us to "get over it?" You obviously haven't a clue what Vietnam was even about, beliving instead the garbage spoon fed you by the leftist elite.Instead of telling us to "get over it," why not listen to veterans and see why the vast majority of us do not support John "F"in Kerry and see him as the traitor and charlatan that he is.
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mark gray
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Joined: 12 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:49 pm    Post subject: Kerry the War Hero,,, blech ! Reply with quote

That leaves a bad taste in ones mouth just to say that.
FROM Volcano:
"Kerry was injured yet again on 13 March 1969, in an action for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself) : Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. "

Our hero john F'ing Kerry, the man was a ****-bird plain and simple, his own commanders were planning on just how to get rid of his ass, his three bandade purple hearts are documented on kerrys own site, the man is a fraud and should have been tried for sedition back in the the 70's.
All of a sudden John kerry is the second coming of Audie Murphy, this is an insult to Audie Murphy, to even try to equate kerry to Murphy is despicable. Of course jk is despicable.
He cant tell the truth he can never decide which side of it he is on. He cant remember the meeting with the VVAW that covered the assination of US Senators, but yet there are members today who swear that kerry was there.
He is also a Self-admitted war criminal, when is he going to be brought up on charges for war crimes ?

So Volcano take your hero and stick him where the sun dont shine.
Mark
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

retracted

Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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rbshirley
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:10 pm    Post subject: Vietnamese Community's Opinion Reply with quote

This reply has been transferred over from the Vets Only Forum

NoDonkey wrote:
This from a political report (subscription only, can't link unfortunately):

Vietnamese Americans Feel Unliberated by Kerry

John Kerry never tires of reminding voters of his military service in Vietnam. So the New York Sun sent reporter Josh Gerstein to Garden Grove, Calif. -- a small city with a large Vietnamese American population that recently declared itself a "no communist zone" -- to see how those who escaped communist oppression feel about the Democrat. It turns out Garden Grovers don't take a nuanced view of Mr. Kerry's antiwar activities.

"Vietnamese don't like Kerry because he played with the communists," Larry Khuu, whose father died in a North Vietnamese prison, told the Sun. In addition to protesting the Vietnam War in the 1970s, Mr. Kerry is seen as the chief obstacle to passing the Vietnam Human Rights Act, which would block any new non-humanitarian assistance to the Hanoi regime. The bill has twice passed the House overwhelmingly, only to be killed in the Senate by Mr. Kerry.

How much aid and comfort is John Kerry getting from the Vietnamese Communists?
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