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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am Post subject: Warning: VVAW has "passed torch" to IVAW |
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While researching the VVAW & Kerry, I came across a website for Jan Barry and then followed various threads that led to this hasty post. Sorry for the length, but I have cut it down as much as I can, it being after midnight and I’m out of steam….. This is but a cursory look at the new anti-America propaganda machine, same people/same plan (same logo) -- seems they are after our young soldiers now and out to cause another US surrender if they can. Need military personnel, families and friends to discuss the IVAW & VAIW with our soldiers, active and inactive, and to warn them about the true nature of these organizations. Need a blitz of info. and hard work to counteract this destructive and dangerous movement. [Please note that I have no problem with any civilian or soldier being a pacifist, protesting war and/or being against U.S. military intervention anywhere for any reason. Just want our soldiers to be informed about just who these people really are so they know what they are getting into and what they might be doing to America by helping these people…]
(NOTE: The article "Vets Pass Torch at High Ground Reunion in NYC" is at the end of this post, after data on 'Stephen Noetzel')
Quick view of some info pulled regarding IVAW (Iraq Veterans Against the War) which has “received the torch” from Kerry’s old VVAW (Vietnam Vets Against the War) and from the newer VAIW (Vets Against the Iraq War). See other posts for more info on the VVAW - basically far-left with connections to communist groups; anti-war; anti-US military intervention in the world (US deemed “imperalist”); anti-capitalist; seditious - met with and planned US surrender regarding Vietnam; held many WSIs in the 70s to prove US soldiers war criminals due to US policy; etc… - and now they are after our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan and setting up new WSIs and anti-war demonstrations. Their old method was to be helpful, to befriend vets on active duty and in processing them out -- to be around to help soldiers with discharge papers, medical claims, place to stay, etc, and work on brainwashing them against the gov’t., get them to join the org., feed them propaganda against our gov’t. Same people, & might be same plan... [all emphasis/abbrev. used in below data are mine]
I have found some old-time VVAW names & others, involved now with VAIW & IVAW:
--Jan Barry (Jan Barry Crumb)
--Joe Bangert
--David Cline
--William Crandell
--Daniel Ellsberg
--Michael Hoffman
--Bobby Muller (Mueller?)
--Stephen S. Noetzel
--Barry Romo
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Note that the old organization, the VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War), Kerry's old group, is still alive and well today and associated with those listed below. This post is primarily about the 2 new organizations, since 9/11:
Quick Reference on the two new organizations which involve people from the old VVAW:
(1) “VAIW” - Veterans Against the Iraq War WEBSITE--Google VAIW.org and you get “VAIW: Vets Against the Iraq War,” -donations payable to same.
--CONTACTS: David Cline, Barry Romo, Jan Barry, etal (Cline & Romo are also VVAW contacts)
--The “Pass the Torch” to IVAW rally article (last item on this post below) is posted at the VAIW website.
--Some Links at this site: IVAW (Hoffman); Veterans For Peace (“VFP”- Cline); VVAW (Cline, Romo); “Bring Them Home Now” (Cline- VFP)
--Endorsers list is 11p long, included are: Cline, Bangert, Ellsberg, Barry, Romo, Vazquez
(2) “IVAW” - Iraq Veterans Against the War WEBSITE
--Google IVAW.net and you get “Mission: Iraq Vets Against the War,” -- donations payable to “Veterans for Peace” with IVAW in memo line (Note: Cline is Pres. of VFP and is contact at VVAW & VAIW)
--CONTACTS: Michael Hoffman, Ivan Medina, etal
--IVAW appears to be a separate entity (specifically: Vets from Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom) with ties to VFP. Note that the IVAW was with the VVAW and VAIW at the “pass the torch” rally -- so these 3 groups are all associated (Cline being in all 3).
--Some Links at this site: “Not in Our Name-GI Special” (this is Urgo, VVAW-AI (anti-imperalist)-- the group “warned against” at the VVAW website. This particular link provides our troops with severe anti-US propaganda); Vets For Peace (Cline); VVAW (Cline, Romo, etal).
--No endorsers list
--Note that the VAIW is NOT a link at IVAW.
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Activities start before the Iraq War: Complete Press Release, a portion of which is shown below: SOURCE
VETERANS AGAINST IRAQ WAR
PRESS RELEASE: IMMEDIATE -- DATE: MARCH 18, 2003
ELLSBERG, MULLER, VETS TO LEAD TEACH-IN AT AM. UNIV. IN NATION'S CAPITAL
Daniel Ellsberg of Pentagon Papers fame, Bobby Muller, a leader in the Vietnam Veterans community…under the sponsorship of the Veterans Against Iraq War Coalition will lead and conduct a "Teach-In" on the impending war in Iraq at American University in the Nation's Capital, Saturday, March 22…… According to David Cline, Nat’l. Pres. of the Veterans For Peace, "The most important decision that our elected officials can make is to send our troops to war… The voice of America's veterans who have fought in past wars must be heard on this issue"…
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Couple of facts about: JAN BARRY CRUMB, now known as “JAN BARRY”
--1967: founder of VVAW; moderator at WSI in Detroit, Jan/Feb 1971.
--2004: attended "pass the torch" to IVAW rally
--2004: listed as contact at VAIW website
--2004: has his own website. Below is portion of a ltr (& I did some abbrev.) that I pulled from the “Discussion” section of his website regarding a reunion of Kerry and his VVAW folk - you can go to the website to see the full letter--I put a lot of it here, but there is much more (I think ltr refers to March 2004):
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Jan Barry website - “Discussion” section, scroll down to find: LINK
“Dear Jan, I just returned from campaigning on behalf of former VVAW member and MA JR. SENATOR JOHN KERRY in NH… It also included over a half dozen men whom Kerry served with on Swift Boats up the Mekong… Cape vet, Kerry renew ties by Jack Coleman staff writer. Delivering his victory speech in NH Tues. night, U.S. Sen. John Kerry said he was indebted to a specific group around him on stage. "In the hardest moments of the past month, I depended on the same band of brothers I depended on more than 30 years ago," said Kerry, with his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, beside him. "We're a little older now, a little grayer, but we still know how to fight for our country. "And if I am president, I pledge that those who wore the uniform of the United States of America will have a voice and a champion in the Oval Office."
A few feet away, wearing the Marine Corps cap he has owned since serving in Vietnam, stood Brewster resident JOSEPH BANGERT [see below] - one of the proverbial boys in the band. Back on the Cape, Bangert's twin brother, John, was watching Kerry's televised speech … "I think that John (Kerry) never forgot his friends and last night was an indication of that," John Bangert said yesterday.
Joe Bangert, 55, a decorated Marine who met Kerry in 1970 after both became activists against the war, spent five days working as a volunteer in Kerry's campaign. Bangert returned home yesterday... "I woke up this morning and I noticed all these guys my age were putting their military hats and jackets on," Bangert said… Kerry's candidacy holds potential as "catharsis for the Vietnam generation," he said. Bangert, of the Veterans for Kerry contingent, said Kerry has drawn together a formidable coalition of veterans, past and current anti-war activists & even some conservatives disenchanted with President Bush. What they share, Bangert said, is anger at Bush and the federal gov’t for cuts in veterans services and doubts that things will improve under the current commander-in-chief. Bangert …may rejoin the campaign with other veterans heading to SC from Boston this weekend….Anybody have ideas? SC for a long weekend sounds mighty fine to me. Yippie! Joe (Dioxin) Bangert!
Mon. night at 10, Kerry returned to campaign headquarters in Manchester for a final rally before the primary. Kerry spotted Bangert and called out his name, then embraced him. VVAW-70-73 (Deserted at Wounded Knee) branded and banished. VVA -1980-1986 National Board of Directors… former member the MGen Smedley Butler USMC Brigade, and Boston Chapt of VFP - 1987-1990 Owner of Cafe 1945- Hanoi, 1995-1996, founder of SE Asia Airlines Vietnam- USA based in Hanoi 1992-1997. Snuffie since then again. I hear the Clash- 'Should I stay or should I go'? No money…. Hoa Binh send money and suggestions, Love, GI Joe”
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Couple facts about JOE BANGERT: former VVAW.
--9/07/70: With Kerry/Fonda at Operation RAW (Rapid American Withdrawal), Valley Forge, PA
--1/31/71: Testified at WSI: “..the men were afraid to complain about such atrocities because those who complained were subject to harsh discipline by company commanders.”
FBI/Sec. 2, p38, data on flyer about WSI testimony being handed out: “JOE BANGERT, 22, Sgt. E-5, helicopter gunner…(1968-69), PA resident, testifies to the disembowlment and skinning of Vietnamese woman …by an American, after she was killed by ARVNs. Body was hung on a tree as a “warning” to other “gooks.” He further testifies to killing villagers - 20 or more women, children, old men -- in helicopter assaults near Cam Lo, and of civilians shot without provocation along Highway 1 near Dong Ha in Oct. 1969…”
--5/19/97: Paid respects at tomb of Ho Chi Minh (indicated founding date of the VVAW - 5/19/67 - coincides with birthdate of late Vietnamese President)
--2003: At Joe’s Pub in NY went on stage to sing “Ballad of Ho Chi Minh” in original Vietnamese (ode to the pres. of No. VN)
--2004: Endorses VAIW
--2004: NH, working on Kerry campaign.
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Couple facts about William F. Crandell. (former VP of VVAW; involved in WSI)
--1968, in VVAW: By spring of 1970, was the sole midwest coordinator of VVAW
--Involved in WSI: “I had been the only one who did not have an atrocity story of my own to tell.” (wrote & presented the opening stmt at the WSI in Detroit).
--Crandell wrote -- “the WSI also broke the story, then classified, of the 3rd Marine Div’s major border crossing into Laos, called Operation Dewey Canyon. Although the Pentagon immediately denied the story, its credibility was undermined by the timing of the testimony, which occurred the same day that marines publicly launched Operation Dewey Canyon II in support of South Vietnamese troops invading Laos.”
“A letter to America, August 2004” by Crandell, posted at VAIW website: for complete letter: LINK
... I’m still in touch with a lot of those guys, & even the ones who won’t forgive Jane Fonda understand why I did what I did. …At the WSI…some 150 veterans, from every combat unit in Vietnam, testified that American policy was leading to war crimes….. The testimony John Kerry gave was a summary -- eloquently stated -- of those testaments from veterans who could not keep silent. It did not say all or even most Americans in Vietnam committed war crimes. It did say such crimes were being committed as the natural result of policies made in Washington….”
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Couple facts about Daniel Ellsberg:
--1965-67 - worked at US Embassy in Saigon; 6/30/71 leaked pentagon papers
--8/25/71 per FBI/S5,p.231: spoke along with Kerry/VVAW & McGovern & others at the Nat’l Student Assoc Congress in CO
--2004: “Truth Telling Project” - urging people to leak secret gov’t. docs.
--2004: Endorses VAIW
Article at Fox: “Whistleblower Urges More Whistle Blowing” 9/10/04 - AP
LINK to full article: SOURCE
Ellsberg: Truth Telling Project: 7/12/04 AP - “Pentagon Papers Whistleblower Calls for National Security Leaks,” by Martha Mendoza (full article: SOURCE
“….Ellsberg is launching "The Truth-Telling Project, a call to patriotic whistleblowing," encouraging Pentagon, White House & other nat’l. security insiders to reveal secrets that involve alleged gov’t. cover-ups and lies…
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Couple facts about Robert ("Bobby") Muller --Mueller? (former VVAW; now involved with VAIW)
--1978 founds the Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA). The VVA also describes John Kerry as a “co-founder” of the organization. In the late 1980s, Mueller & the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation (VVAF) split from the VVA.
--Led a VVAF delegation to Hanoi, where he praised the communist leadership of Vietnam & laid a wreath on the grave of Ho Chi Minh.
--2004: National Vets Steering Committee for Kerry/Vet Advocate, NY
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Couple facts on David Cline: (VVAW-joined 1970; member while still on active duty in the Army, Ft. Hood)
--Pres of Veterans For Peace ("VFP"), formed in 1986. 5-fold statement of purpose: to educate the public to the true costs of war; to work to restrain our government from intervening in the domestic affairs of other countries; to work for nuclear disarmament; to seek justice for veterans & victims of war; and to work for the abolition of war.
--2004: On the Advisory Committee of VETPAC (Veterans Alliance For Security and Democracy). SOURCE VETPAC endorses John Kerry. (VETPAC is assoc. with VIFSD, see Michael Hoffman data)
--2004: Attended the "pass the torch" to IVAW rally
--2004: Listed as contact at VVAW and at VAIW
--2004: Assoc. with IVAW thru VFP
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Couple facts on Michael Hoffman (founder of IVAW)
--Iraq war veteran
--2004: Along with David Cline, on the Advisory Committee of VETPAC (Veterans Alliance For Security and Democracy). SOURCE VETPAC endorses John Kerry.
--9/12/04: Appeared on C-Span in a Press Conference, along with Ivan Medina, another Iraq veteran, sponsored by Veterans Institute For Security & Democracy (“VIFSD”). The conference was organized by VIFSD to counterattack Swift claims and the Kerry Lied Rally held on 9/12/04. In addition to the two soldiers above, it was attended by Col. Richard Klass, Pres. of VIFSD; and also attended by Generals McPeak & Hoar, both on Advisory Board of VIFSD; and it is not mentioned, but both of these men also serve on the Advisory Committee of VETPAC---along with David Cline & Mike Hoffman]
--2004: Attended the "pass the torch" to IVAW rally
--2004: Assoc. with VVAW, VAIW and VFP
--2004: Contact and founder, IVAW
Article about this Press Conf. posted on VAIW website: SOURCE
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Couple facts on Barry Romo: (VVAW -a founder of VVAW/WSO in 1971)
--Jan/Feb 1971: Moderated the Americal Div. Panel Roster at the WSI: “I represent the Chicano community… All it has been has been the atrocities that have been committed & not the reasons why. And it boils down to one thing, and that’s racism."
--4/71: involved in Dewey Canyon protest and threw his ribbons
--12/72: Went to North Vietnam with peace delegation which included Joan Baez. Romo was the first combat veteran to visit Hanoi.
--2004: Contact & National Coordinator for VVAW
--2004: Contact for VAIW
--2004: Assoc. with IVAW thru Cline
--2004: Veterans organizer /supporter of Kerry
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Couple facts on Stephen S. Noetzel: (former VVAW)
2004: Attended "pass the torch" to IVAW rally
2004: Assoc. with VVAW and VAIW
2004: West Coast organizer of Vets For Kerry (“fire Bush /exit Iraq”)
---The following article is posted at the VAIW website. This article states the intent of the old VVAW in passing their torch to another generation, and it is a good idea to read the entire thing -- portions given below:
Complete article: “Vets Pass Torch at High Ground Reunion in NYC” - by Stephen S. Noetzel - 9/7/04 SOURCE
| Quote: | ABBREV. PORTIONS OF ARTICLE (emphasis, mine):
The PAST (Sunday Reunion #1, 8/29/04.): Funny how most of them haven’t changed all that much in over 30 yrs. “on the barricades"… Despite having grown “rotund”, most of the Grizzled Vets still managed to squeeze into the remnants of the bestraggled uniform “artifacts” they had saved for important Protest Events, for many years, even decades… The same stuff they wore when they took over the Mall, in Washington DC, in the spring of ’71 when they emerged as the heroes of the Anti-War movement. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
And I was right there with them. Wearing my wool Green Beret; modified only slightly, to announce my Political Stance while at the same time stopping the beads of sweat trying to roll off my now bald head. Instead of the regulation Special Forces Patch that originally commanded attention directly over the left eye, there was a round Veterans for Peace “Patch”, splashed with the red/yellow colors of Vietnam; yet held in place by my original 5th Special Forces Pin with its swaggering Logo-Phrase written in Ironic Latin: “De Oppresso Liber”. Liberator of the Oppressed, my ass. Like all of the Old Experienced Ones who have been through the fires of the Anti War struggles for decades, I knew better.
So we marshaled .. for One Last Parade. For 2 hours we waited at the head of the “Line of March”, while politicians and celebrities made speeches in front of us, and a half million Protestors against the Bush War Machine gathered behind us. We carried our signs aloft: IRAQ is ARABIC for VIETNAM. Vietnam Veterans Against the War – AGAIN! Vietnam Vets Action Plan: Job 1; Fire BUSH; Job 2: EXIT IRAQ. And mine: Vietnam Vets for Kerry – LOVED him in ’71; Support him in ’04
..As the Line of March “stepped off” at noon, one could read it all in the eyes of the spectators pressed to the far side of the barricades. From the under 40 crowd; “Wow…Cool… Look at Those Guys”. From the other side of 40, a somber closed-mouth slight nodding of the head. Déjà vu, all over again. But there WAS something new “walking point” at the very head of the parade. Carried by a small squad of clean-cut YOUNG American men, their signature banner read: IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR! …. the young band of Veterans of “Operation Iraqi Freedom” strode forward with the Military Posture & the serious faces that only hinted at the courage required to make their Statement. But make it they did “in spades” for all the world to see. We were proud to march behind them. For us, they represented the very soul of our life-long sentiment; articulated anew. We marched the Parade Route together. Two Generations; One message: Peace. NOW!..
They pulled the rumpled handbills from their pockets, and re-read their “orders”. VETS REUNION at SUMMIT ROCK; 1700 hours in Central Park! LET’S TAKE THE HIGH GROUND! This INVITATION goes out primarily to ALL the VVAW troops but also just as warmly to Vets for Peace, VVA, Citizen Soldiers COs, Deserters, Just Plain Ole’ Vets, Vet Groupies, & most assuredly to members/Potential Members of the (brand New) IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR….Shall we TAKE THE HIGH GROUND together?
The PRESENT (Sunday Reunion #2): Truth be told, no one knew if anyone would show. It was WAY uptown. ..By 5:15pm there were 85 of us.. “Where you in from?” Mpls, IA, Seattle, SF, PA, NJ, Upstate NY, Brooklyn. The Old Guard comparing notes. “Were you at Dewey Canyon III in D.C. ?” “Sure was, but I had long hair back then”. “Were you in the Hearing Room with Kerry when he testified before Senator Fulbright?” “Negative…I was still in The Nam. Got back in ’72 and joined VVAW as soon as I got back to The World”.
..the inevitable Speech…. one grizzled ex-Marine climbs a shelf-rock and yells out “Let’s hear it for IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR!”. Joe goes on to cite the Announcement of the Founding of IVAW… “7/24/04, in Boston MA!” “Come on up here Mike, and say a few words”. This call interrupts a historic moment, taking place just a few yards away. Mike Hoffman, founder of Iraq Veterans Against the war, is engaged in quiet conversation, with the ever understated Jan Barry, founder of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The Passing of the Torch. Then Mike is up on stage… introducing addn’l. members of IVAW, and thanking the Vietnam Vets for their Inspiration and Mentorship. Each of the New Vets takes their turn at “a few words for the brothers”.. “Just like you guys”, says one, “we are growing like wildfire because, like yours, our leadership has failed us, and our cause is JUST”. “Just like you guys”, says another, “we answered The Bell, and did our job. Now it’s time for THEM to do right by US!”.
Dave Cline says a few words to define the Moment. Like many old Vietnam Vets, he recognized long ago, that the Invasion of Iraq had DEEP parallels with our sad mis-adventure in Vietnam. For starters, yet another immoral, illegal war. He’s been working tirelessly since the very start of the Bombing of Baghdad, to bring the collective experience of VVAW to the grunts in uniform, doing the dirty work of our Government, in the heat, and sand, and chaos, that is Iraq. “The torch is being passed”, says Dave. “Right here, Right now, my long-time dream is coming true, and the Torch is being PASSED!”. A mighty cheer arises in Central Park….“That doesn’t mean your job is done.” He shouts to the Old Vets within earshot. “You’re not ‘Retired’ yet! ..We are Still in Service, & we need to continue to support these guys, and ALL the troops still over there, and Bring them back Alive… and Right NOW!” Dave closed his remarks with a call for a Moment of Silence for the Fallen. The Extended Line of Fallen. From Vietnam to Iraq. The warriors doing their job for Dubious Leaders, cowering in safety. The civilian populations, who couldn’t find safe haven. In that moment of silence, the Torch was being passed.
A few more vets said a few more words. A Vietnam Vet from San Francisco told everyone about how the IVAW movement was growing on the West Coast, and how Seasoned Vets were mentoring Iraq vets back there. A few words were spoken by Parents of Troops in Iraq right now. Anxious words that promised to swell the ranks of these new Winter Soldiers. if they can only make it back home, alive. To close the Reunion, the assembled vets huddled together, young and old… The Torch won’t be visible in those photos, but it sure as hell was there. You had to be there, to FEEL it being passed from one generation to another.
By 7:30pm the High Ground Reunion was breaking up…and there was still one more Reunion to attend…..tonight. The FUTURE (Sunday Reunion #3): The final Vets & Friends contingent re-assembled at 9pm; back again in Lower Manhattan. A young crowd lined the sidewalk outside Joes Pub in the Park… at New York’s famous Public Theatre, at Astor Place. It was to be a Concert for Peace, presented by a cooperative of many artists, performing during the week, to raise funds for numerous groups dedicated to Peace, and Regime Change in the US of A.
Tonight, Singer-Songwriter Stephan Smith was performing to raise funds for IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR. ….After these introductory songs, Stephan introduced VVAW leader Dave Cline, who in turn introduced THREE of the Founding Members of IVAW. Primary founder Michael Hoffman, took the stage, along with xxxxx, and xxxxxx. The audience grew stone quiet as Mike told the story of his Introduction to Iraq. “The truest words I’ve ever heard”, he said were told to him and his Marine platoon, on the night before they embarked for their Mission in Iraq. Hoffman recalled the speech almost verbatim: “I want you guys to know why we’re going over there and why we’re NOT going over there”, said his battle seasoned Platoon Sergeant. “I want you all to get this straight. We are NOT going over there to get Saddam Hussein. We are NOT going over there for Regime Change or to ‘Free’ the people of Iraq”. “We are NOT going over there to capture Weapons of Mass Destruction. There are none, and we won’t find any. Marines, we are going to Iraq for one reason, and one reason only. and THAT reason is OIL.”…
After his introductory “bombshell”, Hoffman passed the microphone to another young vet… The casualties we took were not about our commitment to Watching our Buddies Backs but more about a lack of overall protection by the command structure above us.” The third young vet put the “lock” on the argument. “We want it to be perfectly clear to all. By forming IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR… we are not turning our backs on our Contract, OR our Mission. Quite the contrary. By telling our story of a War Gone Wrong… we are STILL covering the backs of our buddies… by calling for an immediate end to the Occupation, and the safe return of each and every precious life…”
The presentation could have ended right there…but there was a live telephone hook-up…from yet another Veteran of Iraq, who wanted to tell his story, to the 250 people gathered at the Pub. ..everyone could hear XXXXXX loud and clear…..”. The evening went on… the concert continued. Stephan sang “Slash and Burn”, and more. We must help these brave young men carry the torch of truth. We must help them complete their Mission. We must stop the carnage, and bring their comrades home to safety. |
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I think it is important to check out these websites and to research these organizations further in order to know who they are and what they are up to (perhaps fighting this propaganda should be a “post-get rid of Kerry project” -- those of you who are able to go after them now, PLEASE DO. They are organized. Perhaps that is what needs to be done on “our side”).
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(For more info about the people here and others supporting Kerry, see "Kerry camp 2004 < know the players" -- LINK)
Last edited by Beatrice1000 on Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:10 pm; edited 25 times in total |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Beatrice
Good sleuthing. Lots of familiar names from VVAW readings.
I checked their site. On the 'about us' page there is a Barry Romo listed. He was also a very familiar name in the VVAW. I have a quote from him where he received a personal telegram from a general in Cambodia thanking the VVAW guys for their efforts.
Jan Crumb is well known originator of VVAW.
So he is aka Jan Barry ?
These guys will be up to no good.
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one of..... We The People |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Beatrice...fantastic job in compiling this mass of informative data. Hopefully, if the media begins to look at Kerry with even 1/10th the energy they brought to bear on Bush and TANG, they'll be looking at the very info you're compiling here.
Well done! |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| kate wrote: | | ..I checked their site. On the 'about us' page there is a Barry Romo listed. He was also a very familiar name in the VVAW. |
Thanks - I've added Barry to my post! As this was just an initial scouting mission, so to speak, I am afraid the list could grow very long...  |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | Well done! |
Thanks for your support -- I am hoping military families can get the info. out to their kids as a first line of defense against this propaganda... as far as the media goes, you'd think by now one show would ask the question, what and who is the VVAW /IVAW? You know what?...
I'm beginning to think WE need our own cable channel that has nat'l and int'l news -- news and only the news and no opinions or speculation.. our group, our own channel. Think of the possibilities!!   |
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ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Beatrice 1000,
Excellent job on your research, I would like to add something if I may.
David Cline, who you reference, is also part of the Advisory Board for the Veterans Alliance For Security And Democracy. http://www.vetpac.org/bio.htm
What is interesting (in my opinion) about this group and the nearly identical one Veterans Institute For Security And Democracy (http://www.veteransinstitute.org) is that they have direct ties to the Kerry Campaign as well. I spent some time looking into this, and the connections are astounding. I have a thread that shows the connections, it just kept getting deeper and deeper. You can find it starting at the following link, and there is much more in later posts.
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=67692#67692 |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| ord33 wrote: | | I would like to add something if I may. David Cline, who you reference, is also part of the Advisory Board for the Veterans Alliance For Security And Democracy. |
THANKS! Info has been spliced in. I also added Hoffman, as he's the founder of IVAW and it is interesting that he & Cline are on that Board assoc with Kerry....
Again, thanks! |
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rikkoshay
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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This is the 'contact us' page on http://www.ivaw.net/
| Quote: |
Contact IVAW - Founding Members
Michael Hoffman
Michael was a Lance Corporal in a Marine Corps artillery battery during the March 2003 invasion of Iraq. ivaw@ivaw.net
Tim Goodrich
Tim served in the US Air Force and was in the Middle East during the invasion of Afghanistan. He has also visited Iraq as part of a Global Exchange trip in January of 2004. Tim is a resident of California.
Kelly Dougherty
Kelly is the daughter of a Vietnam veteran and served in Iraq as an MP with a National Guard Unit. Kelly is living in Colorado.
Diana Morrison
Diana has served in regular Army, Army Reserve and the California National Guard for over ten years. She was most recently deployed to Iraq where she served as a Military Police woman.
Alex Rybov
Alex was born in the Ukraine and his family emigrated to the United States while he was still a child. He was part of a Marine Corps artillery unit during the initial invasion of Iraq in March of 2003. Alex now lives in NYC.
Isaiah Pallos
Isaiah was a Sergeant in the United States Marine Corps and served along side Michael Hoffman, and Alex Rybov in the invasion of Iraq. He lives in Ohio with his wife and child.
Ivan Medina
Shortly after Ivan's return to United States after serving as a chaplain's assistant in Iraq he received the devastating news that his identical twin brother had been killed in action. Since then he has dedicated himself to ending the occupation. Ivan now lives in White Plains, NY.
Jimmy Massey
Jimmy was a platoon sergeant in 7th Marines during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. After witnessing first hand the horror of war he refused to continue this pointless war. After a hard fight he was discharged and has since been telling people the truth about the war in Iraq. Jimmy lives with his wife in North Carolina.
Webmaster
Joel Nagy
Joel is a Web Developer and Graphic Designer and has known Michael Hoffman for the better part of a decade. webmaster@ivaw.net
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Do we know/can you find out if the platoon supposedly refusing to deliver the supplies on 0ct 13 were linked to these guys? Maybe served in different units at some point in time? Or knew VVAW before going into service? There is a link via NC in the above and where the platoon is based in the states...... Just a thought.
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http://www.defendamerica.mil - DoD News
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| rikkoshay wrote: | This is the 'contact us' page on http://www.ivaw.net/
....Do we know/can you find out if the platoon supposedly refusing to deliver the supplies on 0ct 13 were linked to these guys? Maybe served in different units at some point in time? Or knew VVAW before going into service? There is a link via NC in the above and where the platoon is based in the states...... Just a thought. |
Rikkoshay - the above is worth researching if you get the chance -- also, in looking at the "contact us" info on IVAW that you quoted made me go back into my research and do quite extensive revisions to this post -- I realized that I was mixing IVAW and VAIW without indicating that they are separate, though associated entities --- so thanks for bringing that to my attention.
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rikkoshay
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Beatrice1000 wrote: | | rikkoshay wrote: | This is the 'contact us' page on http://www.ivaw.net/
....Do we know/can you find out if the platoon supposedly refusing to deliver the supplies on 0ct 13 were linked to these guys? Maybe served in different units at some point in time? Or knew VVAW before going into service? There is a link via NC in the above and where the platoon is based in the states...... Just a thought. |
Rikkoshay - the above is worth researching if you get the chance -- also, in looking at the "contact us" info on IVAW that you quoted made me go back into my research and do quite extensive revisions to this post -- I realized that I was mixing IVAW and VAIW without indicating that they are separate, though associated entities --- so thanks for bringing that to my attention.
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You're most welcome! I'm so glad I helped... The VVAW/IVAW apparent switch thing had me confused for a little there myself until I was writing an email. When I posted the above, I didn't think I could figure out a way to research it and that you folks seem to have a handle on everything, 'so, what could I do?'. But since you gave me an 'action item' so to speak, my mind has jumped in gear and I've now got a few ideas on how to research this. Am heading out to work now, but will dig in tonight.
_________________
Support Our Troops - Tons of organized links on a .mil site
http://www.defendamerica.mil - DoD News
http://www.defenselink.mil |
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