SwiftVets.com

[PhantomSgt]

The information below may fill in some of the blanks as we try to understand the gaps in Senator Kerry's published military records and his effort to not have them released.

You can be sure President Nixon ensured action was taken against John Kerry before he left the Presidency. Nixon would not want a public court martial of Kerry (The trial of Billy Mitchell comes to mind.) to fan the antiwar flames and make a martyr out of Kerry.

As I read the Internet BLOGS and rare articles concerning Senator Kerry and his military records, I notice that most of individuals who make comments are writing about a less than honorable discharge as the motive for the Senator hiding his military records. This may look like the reason on the surface but it would involve non-judicial or public judicial action to give a less than honorable discharge to an officer. There is another non-public alternative:

During a time of war the President could order the “Dismissal” of an officer who displays disloyalty to the United States or other egregious conduct through his/her actions. Remember all officers execute an oath swearing their allegiance to the US, Protection of the Constitution, obeying all orders of the President and officers appointed over them. Officers serve at the convenience of the President, as he is Commander in Chief of the armed forces.

DON Secretary of the Navy Instructions published at the time of Kerry’s service state:

“Once an individual has legally accepted a commission or warrant as a Regular or Reserve officer in the Navy or Marine Corps and has executed the oath of office, he or she has acquired a legal status, which continues until it is terminated through a specific, legally authorized process. Neither retirement nor release from active duty affects an individual’s status as a commissioned or warrant officer until the officer’s commission or warrant has been terminated.”

There is a possibility that Senator Kerry’s military records contain a letter of dismissal from President Nixon, which is a complete “severance” from all military status. In other words the officer is fired directly by the President.

This is far worse than being given a dishonorable discharge. In the days of old, military personnel would not associate or conduct business with any officer “drummed out of the service” and when sighted they would turn their backs to them as the officer did to his country. The officer was considered "Branded with shame". And something you would definitely not want made public as a politician.

There is no appeal or overturning this action taken by a sitting President and is final when signed. All awards, citations, rank and status are removed from the individual who is “Dismissed by the President for Cause During a Time of War”. President Nixon was a former Naval Officer and was well aware of the options available to him.

The restoration of certain records at a later date is apparent from what was released by Kerry so far and it does not jive with what is standard military procedures.
_________________
Retired AF E-8

Independent that leans right of center.

[Ruckerman20002000]

That's an extremely interesting take on the John Kerry missing documents situation. Wouldn't it be lovely if one of the douments John Kerry is holding back is a letter drumming him out of the Navy signed by the Demon-cRATs Anti-Christ, Richard Nixon? Mary Cahill, James Carville, and Teddy Kennedy's heads would explode.
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"We are condemned men who are chained to our oars and will row in place until we rot."
LtCol (CENTCOM) on life at his Command

[Hondo]

Since Vietnam was never a declared war, I'm not sure the President could have legally dismissed officers by his order under 10 USC 1161 (the portion of federal law that gives the President the power to dismiss officers during wartime). Not sure he couldn't have, either. This (dismissal by Presidential order during hostilities that were not a declared war) may never have happened prior to Kerry's time, so there may be no legal precident. 10 USC 1161 became effective in 1956, but it does seem that the authority existed before then - specifically, during Korea.

If this in fact happened (Kerry dismissed by Presidential Order), it would have had to have happened sometime during or after late 1972 (Kerry was notified of a pending transfer to the Standby Reserve in mid 1972). However, since Watergate was spinning up then, something tells me that - if Nixon had tried to do this - Kerry would have made a HUGE public issue of it. Ditto if Ford - and Ford had enough political problems after the Nixon pardon. These two facts alone convince me that this never happened.

10 USC 804 also provides that an officer dismissed by Presidential order has the right to demand trial by court-martial. Kerry just might have been willing to play this card during Watergate as well. (My guess is no, he wouldn't have had the b@11s to demand court-martial but would have gone public with the dismissal order, claiming he had been "persecuted" - but you never know.)

In any event, all of this could have happened no later than April 1975, as that's when Vietnam ended. Thus the time window is fairly tight: late 1972 to April 1975. He'd have then had to have gotten the dismissal reversed between then and Feb 1978, when he was very obviously back on the rolls of the USNR.

For what it's worth: IMO an interesting theory but probably didn't happen.

Then again, Nixon was known to drink at times and had a nasty temper. If he decided to do something like this in early Aug 1974 - when he had likely already decided to resign - well . . .
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[PhantomSgt]

Although Kerry could have been dropped from the roles for being absent more than three months from duty (Active reserve commitment) it had to be more serious than that.

Title 10 USC-804 clearly states:

(d) If an officer is discharged from any armed force by


administrative action or is dropped from the rolls by order of the


President, he has no right to trial under this article.


This is not an appealable decision and any subsequent efforts to "fix" his records would be illegal. It is a one-way ticket out of the military when the president signs the order.
_________________
Retired AF E-8

Independent that leans right of center.

[Hondo]

PhantomSgt:

Admin actions are never settled by court-martial. Courts-martial are reserved for military criminal matters. Both DFR and admin discharges are admin actions and are handled through admin channels. The clause you cite from 10 USC 804 is there to reinforce this point and to clearly distinguish the fact that ONLY a Presidential dismissal - which for an officer is the equivalent of an enlisted person receiving a dishonorable discharge - entitles the officer receiving same to demand trial by court-martial.

There are admin channels for appeal of discharge characterization. Each service maintains a board for correction of military records. These boards have the power to upgrade admin - not punitive - discharges, and routinely do so. Admin discharges are honorable, general (under honorable conditions), general (under other than honorable conditions), and entry-level (fairly recently created; did not exist in 1978).

I suspect Carter chose to institute a special board when he announced his Vietnam amnesty program - rather than using the existing board structure, which could have performed this function - due to the sheer volume of actions expected.

Punitive discharges are bad conduct, dishonorable, and dismissal. These can only be changed through the legal system, as they are almost always part of a sentence imposed by court-martial (the sole exception is a Presidential dismissal during time of war). That is why an officer receiving a Presidential dismissal has the right to demand trial by court-martial; he/she is receiving a punitive discharge.

The only way I can see that the scenario you propose could have happened is if (1) Nixon, in a fit of pique, dismissed Kerry just before he resigned in Aug 1974, and (2) Ford got wind of it and rescinded it immediately. If that in fact happened, I'd bet mucho dinero that there is NO PAPER TRAIL ANYWHERE. Ford was politically very astute and would have immediately recognized that this was political dynamite, particularly during the Watergate aftermath. At the time, he had enough problems - and was almost certainly aready considering a Nixon pardon. Had Kerry ever received word he was getting a Presidential dismissal, IMO he'd have immediately whined to the media that "Tricky Dick is unjustly persecuting me", creating even more problems for Ford.

Kerry would have been entitled to copies of all of these documents (and to review his records on demand in the future). Therefore, my guess is that if Kerry was dismissed (by Nixon and the dismissal rescinded by Ford), Ford then made damn sure that ALL copies of both actions were destroyed - except for maybe copies he personally retained. If this is the case, the only folks who would know about it would be Ford, a few high-level White House and/or Ford administration staffers, and maybe a few high-level DON folks. If so, I'd bet Ford swore all of them to silence and that they are all honorable enough to keep their mouths shut.

Wish your theory were true, but as they say where I grew up: "that dog just don't hunt".
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[PhantomSgt]

Than the most realistic scenario is he was "dropped from the rolls" by the President for his failure to attend his Active Reserve duty. I think it is obvious from his anti-war activities (and appearance) he was not showing up for Reserve UTAs or Annual Tours. This could explain the smoke screen for attacking Bush's Guard service:

Sec. 1161. Commissioned officers: limitations on dismissal

-STATUTE-


(a) No commissioned officer may be dismissed from any armed force


except -


(1) by sentence of a general court-martial;


(2) in commutation of a sentence of a general court-martial; or


(3) in time of war, by order of the President.


(b) The President may drop from the rolls of any armed force any


commissioned officer (1) who has been absent without authority for


at least three months,


Sec. 804. Art. 4. Dismissed officer's right to trial by court-martial


(d) If an officer is discharged from any armed force by


administrative action or is dropped from the rolls by order of the


President, he has no right to trial under this article.


What do you think Hondo? Can we get that old dog to hunt yet?
_________________
Retired AF E-8

Independent that leans right of center.

[Hondo]

It's theoretically possible he was DFR by the USNR for missing drills - assuming, of course, he was REQUIRED to drill. I've seen conflicting statements here; some say he was required to drill, others no. My opinion is probably not, especially if he was put in the USNR equivalent of the Individual Ready Reserve.

However, DFR would not lead to a dismissal. DFR is an admin action; dismissal is a punitive discharge and requires court-martial conviction or (in time of war) Presidential order. Someone who has been DFR is no longer on the "rolls", so to speak, until they return to military control. Legal actions against them are back-burnered until that time.

Not sure the USNR would have DFRed him. The law allows for reservists to be ordered back to active duty for missing drills and/or other required training. It occasionally happens; if I recall correctly, exactly that had happened to one of the folks in my unit in the early 1980s. (He was a problem case and none too bright too boot; he ended up getting a court-martial for assault with an unloaded pistol.)

Moreover, the scenario of Kerry being DFR has its own set of problems. It would have had to have happened between late 1972 and 1976 (explanation follows). He would also have had to have been reinstated in good standing in the USNR sometime before about mid-1977.

Kerry couldn't have been DFR any earlier than late 1972, because we know Kerry was still in the USNR in mid-1972 (the letter transferring him to the Standby Reserve documents this).

We know Kerry was in the USNR in Feb 1978, because his discharge letter refers to a review of the records of USNR officers. Had he been DFR and never reinstated, his records would not have been reviewed by this board. DFR is exactly that: the individual is "off the books".

Thus Kerry would have to (1) have been DFR; (2) have requested reinstatement; and (3) have received reinstatement between late 1972 and 1977 (to allow his records to go before the board, which could have occurred any time during 1977 or early 1978). Possible, but IMO VERY unlikely. First, had Kerry been DFR IMO it is VERY unlikely he'd have been reinstated. This is almost a lock if he was DFR and given a discharge in absentia (not even sure this is possible, but it may be); any such discharge would be virtually guaranteed to be something besides an honorable discharge and - if I recall correctly- it's damn near impossible to reenter the military with anything other than an honorable discharge from prior service.

Second, that's a hell of a lot of admin action (DFR, request for reinstatement, consideration of request, reinstatement) to shoehorn into 4 1/2 years - plus maybe a request for discharge upgrade through the Navy's board for correction of military records, if Kerry received a general discharge due to DFR. Lots to do in 4 1/2 years admin-wise.

Short answer: could be, but I wouldn't bet on it. Wish it were so, though.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[JB Stone]

[PhantomSgt]

You filled in alot of the blanks for me JB. Now I can see why Kerry is avoiding the press.

Let's just hope Carl Rove has this in his hip pocket to dump out during the final days before the election.

Remember the 2000 DUI arrest? Payback is a *****.
_________________
Retired AF E-8

Independent that leans right of center.

[JB Stone]

THanks, Sarge...!!!



Please allow me to put in plain language, without all the hocus-pocus and mind-bending rules and regs:

1. John FORBES Kerry is born into a life of privilege and liesure.

2. Becoming politically 'hip' at a young age and having the connections to do so, he hitched his wagon to the Kennedy juggernaut of Massachusetts Liberal Democratic Supremacy.



3. He went to various "finishing schools" and private Leftist enclaves of "education"....and then, Hahvahd...to ostensibly become a lawyer...at which point he was DENIED a deferral to study in PARIS for an additional year, banking on the Vietnam War winding down, thereby alleviating Draft Considerations for the time being....later plans to be laid while on vacation.

4. Kerry "volunteered" for the Navy RESERVE....[a VERY popular dodge at the time for the various Sons of Riches]....expecting to create the IMAGE that he was cast in the OTHER JFK's shadow....and set out for some cushy assignment in THIS country.

5. Fate dealt him a devastating blow....his Reserve Unit was called up for ACTIVE DUTY.....dang.....

6. Kerry "worked the system", calling in political favor chits....seeking a "shore boat" interdiction program most likely to encounter vegetable salesmen in sampams, NOT the Viet Cong....whew, dodged ANOTHER bullet...and, Hey...THESE things LOOK like PT Boats....!!! Still a chance to create that Kennedy-esque FACADE.....

7. The SAFE, SECURE coastal patrol boats suddenly became ill-equipped, poorly positioned, sitting ducks in a maze of brown water - riverine bogs, amongst a thicket of hidden dangers, in a politically sabotaged war, but he quickly adjusted...in part....to his new-found 'band of brothers' all of whom were plucked from socio-economic positions FAR below his...so, he was STILL in charge of his own little corner of the Vietnam War. QUOTE: "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

8. Seeking to keep his mind off of the ICKIER aspects of warfare, he filmed crockumentaries in which he starred, dressed as a Soldier, NOT a Sailor, for garnering later political favor and boosting his already highly inflated sense of self, while poring over the Book of Regs for a cheap seat ticket to an Early Out, racking up some HIGHLY questionable "medals of honor" on the way....just enough, no muss, no fuss.

9. After promoting HIMSELF for Purple Hearts awarded for minor, superficial scratches and a Silver Star based at least in PART on after-action reports HE penned.....when not busy hot dogging his craft and endangering his 'band of underlings' in various fits of childish rage at being in this demeaning situation in the FIRST place.....he acquired a release from combat duty, returning Stateside to become an aide in the D.C. area to a well-placed officer.

10. He applied for an early release from ACTIVE DUTY on the basis of being a CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR......while actively assisting TEddy Kennedy's campaign for a date-certain end to the war throughout New York State, while still ON active duty.

11. He bitched, griped, and complained until he was finally released into Ready Reserve status.....some time AFTER he had already started PUBLICLY campaigning for the U.S. House. Mind you, he STILL had a couple of YEARS left to go before he could complete his tour of duty.

12. He was defeated SOUNDLY in the Democratic Primary, but not before stating...."I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations." a view which he STILL holds 34 years later, under the guise of our having to pass a "GLOBAL TEST" before deploying troops in our own defense....

13. He got wind of ANOTHER, more hip, and MUCH safer method of fighting the "enemy"....that would be US.....which is how and why he got involved in the VVAW at the height of it's agenda of Commie Sympathizing, rioting, defying Supreme Court Orders, and thereby CEMENTING his relationship as official Kennedy FAmily Lap Dog...on the Mall...



14. Some time between 1/3/70 and 7/1/72....a period for which Kerry REFUSES to release his Military Personnel Records, he must have done SOMETHING unbecoming his official status as an Officer in the U.S. Naval Reserve and his stature as a well-bred Massachusetts 'gentleman'...







15. Nonetheless, while STILL on Ready Reserve Status, he got his long-awaited vacation in Paris...



TWICE, no less...!!!

16. And, somehow managed to get an Honorable Discharge a full SIX YEARS after his supposed discharge date....the REST, as they say...is HISTORY....

17. John Francois Kerry had his "lost" medals...I say STRIPPED......re-instated the day after he joined the U.S. Senate from the great state of confusion known as Massachusetts.....in 1974.

18. "In the '80s, Kerry was a passionate defender of the communist Sandinistas. Indeed, the point of his infamous "Christmas in Cambodia" Senate speech was to prevent the Reagan administration from taking action to overthrow the communists. " http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40800

19. In 1993, not content to sit idle when the children, wives, and actual brothers of our POW's & MIA's would presume to find out ANYTHING about their lost loved-ones...who we ALL know are just a bunch of baby-killing, drug-addicted, war criminals, who didn't HAVE the political clout and good sense to opt OUT of defending America from the enemies without...and once MORE siding with the enemy within.....with the help of Hanoi Hilton Happy Face, McCain....deemed those bewildered Civilians....