| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: Thomas Sowell - Kerry Dishonorable Discharge |
 |
|
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20050218.shtml
Tainted Media
Thomas Sowell (archive)
February 18, 2005
| Quote: | The recent resignation of CNN's news director, Eason Jordan, after his outrageous remarks about our military at an international forum were reported on the Internet, is only the latest in a series of media scandals, of which Dan Rather's forged documents were just one. Media bias does not consist in having liberal or conservative opinions but in how you do your job -- or don't do it.
One document whose authenticity is not likely to be questioned by the mainstream media is the honorable discharge on Senator John Kerry's web site. Yet who in the major media has investigated why that honorable discharge is dated during the Carter administration, when Kerry's military service ended years earlier?
This is the same media that spent months investigating George W. Bush's military record and, even after key allegations were revealed to be based on forgeries, continued publicizing rumors and innuendoes. They didn't stop even after the President signed Form 180, opening all his military records to the public.
But who in the major media has asked why John Kerry would need to be issued an honorable discharge during the Carter administration, years after leaving the navy, unless his original discharge was less than honorable?
One of Jimmy Carter's first acts as President was to issue an order granting amnesties to draft dodgers who had fled the country during the Vietnam war and also allowing an upgrading of military discharges that had been less than honorable.
There is more to this than simply a strange date on an honorable discharge. The covering memo refers to U.S. Code Title 10, sections 1162 and 1163. Anyone who bothers to read those sections will discover that they are about unusual circumstances for issuing discharges from the military services.
Senator Kerry never signed Form 180 to make all his military records public, as President Bush had done -- and the media didn't press him to do so. Even after Kerry's widely publicized role as a war hero was challenged by numerous men who had served with him in Vietnam, the media remained totally uninterested in checking out his record.
This gross double standard is the real media scandal, even more than the forged documents, which were after all the responsibility of just one network and one program.
Maybe there is a perfectly innocent explanation for Senator Kerry's late-dated honorable discharge during the Carter administration. But no explanation has been asked or given, even though there may also be a not so innocent explanation.
What is well known is that, during the Vietnam war, John Kerry went to Paris on his own and engaged in discussions or negotiations with representatives of the country with whom we were at war, even though he was still an officer in the naval reserve.
That raises legal questions about unauthorized personal diplomacy which naval authorities may not have overlooked as generously as the media did, and which could have affected the kind of discharge that Kerry received.
One of the few people in the media who has shown any interest at all in Kerry's military records has been Tim Russert of "Meet the Press." He asked Senator Kerry on April 18, 2004 if he would "make all your records public." Kerry indicated that his records were already public, that people "can come and see them" at his headquarters.
But recently, on January 30, 2005, when Tim Russert again raised that question and asked "Would you sign Form 180?" -- the form that Bush had signed to open all his military records -- Kerry started off on a tangent before Russert interrupted him to repeat that same question. This time Kerry said, "Yes, I will."
He will? He had already done so last year, if you believe what he said then. But will the media call him on it if he doesn't follow through now? Don't bet on it.
This is not about the past or ultimately even about Kerry or Bush. It is about the future of this country. A gullible public learning only what is filtered to them by a biased media is not a hopeful sign for the future of a democracy.
Some of the public have begun to wake up but more need to do so. Many in the media also need to wake up to what they are doing, or failing to do, when their politics taints their work. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
srmorton
PO2
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Jacksonville, NC
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What a great article by one of the most brilliant minds in America! It
is so obvious to me and to anyone that reads this article with an open
mind that John Kerry's refusal to sign the 180 is because there is
something in his records that would conflict with his public persona of
"war hero".
What is even more obvious is the bias of the MSM. Any reporter worth
his/her salt would be trying to get to the bottom of this. They are so
afraid of finding out something that reflects badly on the Democrats
that they don't even do their job.
_________________
Susan R. Morton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm so glad to see Sowell keeping this issue alive.
Wish more conservative media would keep the pressure on Kerry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kerry's Timetable.
_________________
8th Army Korea 68-69
Last edited by GM Strong on Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shawa wrote: | I'm so glad to see Sowell keeping this issue alive.
Wish more conservative media would keep the pressure on Kerry. |
Aye Shawa, great article by Sowell although I am surprised he didn't mention the SVPT's and their campaign to raise the issue in the first place.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
In the last few days Kerry has been trumpeting that he is a sure winner of the presidency in '08. On the assumption that even he would regard the revelation of a 'less than' discharge fatal to his candidacy, one can assume that he has somehow accomplished a complete cleansing of his records. There may be some clerks around who would know about it and speak up but they had better stay away from Fort Marcy Park.
Schadow
_________________
Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
srmorton
PO2
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Jacksonville, NC
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't agree that his confidence about 2008 means that he has gotten
his records "fixed'. If that were possible, he would have done it long
ago so that he could magnanimously sign the 180. I think that it is just
total arrogance. He believes that he has gotten away with lying about
his war record for so long that he can continue to do so. Also, he has
failed to grasp that he did not really come close to beating GWB.
The real candidate's name was ABB (anybody but Bush). The votes that
John Kerry got were not really "for" him at all but were against Bush.
He has no more of a mandate than any of the other possible 2008
candidates.
_________________
Susan R. Morton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
from Tanya's link
| Quote: | | WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Failed U.S. presidential nominee John Kerry and fellow congressional Democrats offered a bill on Thursday to address voting problems like those reported last November in the pivotal state of Ohio. |
great word...failed nominee
also of note, that Kerry does not mention what is turning up about the Wisonsin vote....how very odd 
_________________
.
one of..... We The People |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slednfool
Seaman
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 198
Location: New Brighton, MN
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Does anyone here have any clue as to why we cant get his records throught the Freedon Of Information Act?
I am almost finished reading Stolen Valor and it seems that B.G. Burkett didnt have any problem getting military records. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Slednfool wrote: | Does anyone here have any clue as to why we cant get his records throught the Freedon Of Information Act?
I am almost finished reading Stolen Valor and it seems that B.G. Burkett didnt have any problem getting military records. |
Burkett wasn't producing 201 file records, and the ones he had were largely phony. You can get unit's records and such if you know what and where they are and if they exist, but you cannot get 201 Personnel records unless you are kin of a deceased vet or a Form 180 has been signed. President signed his 180, Kerry's will be done on an above previously depicted agenda.
_________________
8th Army Korea 68-69 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scotty61
LCDR
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 419
Location: Glyndon MN
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think the reason for Kerry's supposed confidence in 08 is not his expunging of his service record, but rather he is not going to make military service an issue. I'm sure he feels that this will insulate him F-180 claims and related issues, but I doubt it will.
_________________
John Kerry. A Neville Chamberlain for our times. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| scotty61 wrote: | | I think the reason for Kerry's supposed confidence in 08 is not his expunging of his service record, but rather he is not going to make military service an issue. I'm sure he feels that this will insulate him F-180 claims and related issues, but I doubt it will. |
We - all of us - must make sure that any insulation gets stripped away. He probably is thinking about the success of Clinton despite his loathing and avoidance of service.
At this point, I think it's probable that a center-right McCain will be the GOP candidate with possibly Condi as VP, if she will accept it. If that comes to pass and Kerry does get nominated, I wonder if McCain would drop his curious hands-off position as regards Kerry's shameful 'service'.
Schadow
_________________
Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
GM Strong wrote:
| Quote: | | Burkett wasn't producing 201 file records, and the ones he had were largely phony. You can get unit's records and such if you know what and where they are and if they exist . . . |
If you are saying that Burkett's reporting on the records he was able to obtain is phony reporting, then we are going to have an argument. If you are saying that he discovered many phony wannabe Vietnam Vets, then we are not going to have an argument.
Unit records are public records and are publically available at the National Archives in College Park, Maryland (where modern military records, including Vietnam, are housed). Unit records (ORLLs, Daily Staff Journals, AARs) rarely have anything to say about individuals, and many such records, like AARs, were in fact part of the debate in the election campaign.
Researchers like Burkett can obtain a lot of information from personnel records under FOIA, but not complete records. A 180 request, signed by the veteran, could make all his personnel records public, if that is what he directs in the 180. Kerry's typically murky statements on this so far leave it unclear what he will do, which is what he wants to convey, because whatever he finally does, it will not be full disclosure.
Be sure of one thing. He already has his complete military records files, and has had them for years - otherwise recent emendations, like the backdating of his discharge date to 1970, done in the year 2000 (I believe it was), would never have been undertaken by him. He knows what he has to hide - all the rest is a shell game for him. Historians may get to his records after he is long dead, providing he does not (has not already) been able to falisify or destroy them.
What his signing a properly prepared 180 would do is put his records - his complete records - beyond his control. That he simply cannot allow to happen.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I B Squidly
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 879
Location: Cactus Patch
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Schadow said:
| Quote: |
I think it's probable that a center-right McCain will be the GOP candidate with possibly Condi as VP.
|
Perish the thought. In that McCain (Did I tell you I was a POW) gets more support from Dems than Rep's he'd do better cutting a deal with Hillary. And the Veep seat's not bad for a shakedown artist like John. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
