 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
This smacks of sKerry getting access to his service records so that he could have them included in the MIA records he had disposed a decade earlier.
_________________
Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BuffaloJack wrote: | | This smacks of sKerry getting access to his service records so that he could have them included in the MIA records he had disposed a decade earlier. |
Jack, that's a whole 'nuther ballgame...feel free to expound in a separate topic and let's try to keep this one focused on Kerry's latest doc dump.
Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What I really meant was that he's done it before. He has the resources at his disposal. He could just as easily destroy any records in his files that looked damning.
_________________
Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Powerline is onto the scam, let's hope with the ferocity of a junkyard dog...Kudos to "John Boyle" for his tenacity...
| Quote: | On the mixed-up files of John Kerry
Reader John Boyle writes:
I have been yelling since last year that the Navy does not have Kerry's records, nor does DoD.
The Navy has always been Kerry's hide-out. The Navy is covered by the Privacy Laws. You're a lawyer, right? The SF 180 is generically addressed to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. These records are 30 to 40 years old. They are history! They do not stay at Navy Personnel Command forever.
It seems to me that all of Kerry's tortured rhetoric on this subject attests to the fact that he was having his records vetted, in spite of the public claim to openness. How to accomplish this? Tell the NPRC, on the SF 180, that the designated recipient of the records is to be a federal Agency (subject to the Privacy Laws) - the Navy!
Then, Kerry or his people get to vet the records at the Navy's offices, allow release of what they want by another required waiver separate from the SF 180, withhold what they don't want out there, and the Navy cannot comment on the process, their holdings - or their withholdings!
The trick is in whom he designated to receive the outflow from NPRC. Read the opening of Kranish's article again:"The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe..."
This is not rocket science, yet no one seems to understand what was done here.
Boyle followed up with the following message:
I want to give you another shot on this, just to be sure you understand. It is crystal clear obvious to me, yet very few people seem to get it...is it how I 'splain it?
The SF 180 is actually a request for "Report of Separation" and all such documents are in the sole custody of the National Personnel Records Center, in St. Louis - not the branch in which the veteran served (in this case the Navy). And the character of Kerry's "separation" (discharge) from the Navy is obviously the document(s) that are hot.
The SF 180 directs the National Personnel Records Center to release records, at the request of the documented veteran, and send them to whomever he designates (usually himself) - period. What is the Navy doing in the middle of this? The Navy must have been the designated recipient, on this specific SF 180 (not the Boston Globe, as Kranish explicitly admits). As a Federal entity, the Navy is then subject to Privacy Laws and any release by them had to be additionally waived by Kerry - or not. He could then easily not waive specific documents for release that he found damaging. What the Boston Globe got was the remainder of whatever the Navy received from NPRC, less what Kerry wished to withhold.
It may be that the Globe is unaware of this game; although I wrote about this at length last week to their reporter Joan Vennochi, who had written that Kerry's 180 was in the pipeline, in order to alert the Globe to what was afoot.
A real shell game.
We have it on good authority that ace reporter Thomas Lipscomb is working the story of the Globe and Kerry's records as well. Until Lipscomb's stories surface, we'll try mull over Boyle's explanations.
UPDATE: Reader John Gershwin has directed us to the succinct explanation posted here, and reader Randy Moss (if that's his real name, I'm pretty sure he's not the former Vikings wide receiver) refers us to the Spectator's "Mission accomplished."
Power Line |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
...and from the "Hoist Them On Their Own Petard" dep't, James Taranto filets a few Kerryites....
| Quote: | BEST OF THE WEB TODAY
BY JAMES TARANTO
Wednesday, June 8, 2005 3:25 p.m. EDT
The Sound of One Hand Clapping
Our item yesterday on John Kerry*, his military records and his Yale transcript prompted this criticism from a reader:
Your failure to acknowledge that John Kerry's Navy records contained praise from (future) members of the Swift Boats outfit demonstrates your lack of integrity and your fundamental dishonesty. You are a shill. Congratulations.
"The Swift Boats outfit," of course, is the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and sure enough, yesterday's Boston Globe did say this:
| Quote: | | The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe, are mostly a duplication of what Kerry released during his 2004 campaign for president, including numerous commendations from commanding officers who later criticized Kerry's Vietnam service. . . . An earlier release of the full record might have helped his campaign because it contains a number of reports lauding his service. |
OK, so we goofed. We should have noted this yesterday. The reason we didn't is that we remembered reading in the paper that the Swift Boat guys were a bunch of liars, so we assumed their praise was not to be trusted.
Now that their credibility has been re-established, let's check in on what they're saying about the release of Kerry's records. (Me#1 - OUCH! I bet THAT smarts!  ) Blogger Matt Margolis has the following comment (scroll down to "Update III") from Swift Boat honcho John O'Neill:
We called for Kerry to execute a form which would permit anyone to examine his full and unexpulgated [sic] military records at the Navy Department and the National Personnel Records Center. Instead he executed a form permitting his hometown paper to obtain the records currently at the Navy Department. The Navy Department previously indicated its records did not include various materials. This is hardly what we called for.
If he did execute a complete release of all records we could then answer questions such as (1) Did he ever receive orders to Cambodia or file any report of such a mission (whether at Christmas or otherwise); (2) What was his discharge status between 1970 and 1978 (when he received a discharge) and was it affected by his meetings in 1970 and 1971 with the North Vietnamese? (3) why did he receive much later citations for medals purportedly signed by Secretary Lehman who said he did not know of them; (4) Are there Hostile Fire and Personnel Injured by Hostile Fire Reports for Kerry's Dec. 1968 Purple Heart (when the officer in charge of the boat Admiral Schacte, the treating Surgeon Louis Letson, and Kerry's Division Commander deny there was hostile fire causing a scratch) awarded three months later under unknown circumstances.
Remember, O'Neill heads a group whose members praised Kerry, so he can hardly be dismissed as an anti-Kerry partisan.
* No, actually the asterisk isn't part of his name.
Best Of The Web Today |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PC
PO3
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 257
Location: Southern California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
from PC's link
| Quote: | Hyper Update: Thomas Lipscomb just told me that:
-- "he is on the hunt"
-- the [waiting by the blogs] "will be worth it"
-- "The Globe has been had."
So all eyes on Lipscomb's upcoming article/expose.... |
_________________
.
one of..... We The People |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Me#1You#10" wrote: | Quote: | | Powerline is onto the scam, let's hope with the ferocity of a junkyard dog...Kudos to "John Boyle" for his tenacity... |
Thanks "Me/You." I don't mind IDing my handle at this late date. Almost everyone has the intuition that this "release" is not kosher, but is not exactly sure why or how. I think I may have hit on the "how" of the game. There is more update on http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010685.php since your last post here.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44667
MISSION: IMPLAUSIBLE
Critics charge Kerry still covering up
John O'Neill on records release: 'This is hardly what we called for'
Posted: June 9, 2005
"Sen. John Kerry's release of Navy records to his hometown Boston Globe newspaper is not the full disclosure sought by critics of his Vietnam war record, says John O'Neill, spokesman for Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
The group of more than 260 veterans who served in Kerry's swiftboat division asked the senator during his presidential campaign last year to sign a Standard Form 180 that would permit anyone to examine his full and unredacted military records at the Navy Department and the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, O'Neill said."
~snip~
"It's a blanket release of documents to the American public," Corsi said. "This is not a Standard Form 180 procedure. I think he just called up the Navy and told them to send documents to the Boston Globe. I want to see the form posted on his website."
Kerry's records became a campaign issue as the senator emphasized his war record while Swift Boat Veterans for Truth waged a media campaign to counter many of his claims of heroism.
In an article Monday, Kranish wrote, "The lack of any substantive new material about Kerry's military career in the documents raises the question of why Kerry refused for so long to waive privacy restrictions."
Some Kerry supporters suggested the file's transcript of his grades at Yale, revealing grades inferior to President Bush's at the same school, were the reason.
But critic B.G. Burkett, a Vietnam vet and author of the book "Stolen Valor, said Kerry's authorized release Monday is a "continued cover up of his true military service" because it doesn't allow anyone to retrieve the full documentation.
"I have no doubt that he will claim that any additional effort to receive his full record is nothing more than partisan harassment," Burkett said. "I believe John Kerry is still perpetrating a cover-up." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Intellectual Conservative just published my "little Acorns Piece. This note from the editor.
Sam,
I posted your piece here:
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article4388.html
I remember reading Steve Sailer's piece when it came out -- he does a great job, and obviously you do too.
We're pleased to run your piece.
_________________
Deportè Monsieur Kerrè |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ATH...
A personal note, if I may. Inre your "Acorn", I've been reticent to comment as I felt that Kerry's comment to Brokaw contained enough non-specificity to drive a Mack Truck through and, though your conclusion as to his "revelation" was well-reasoned, Kerry's comment required some elucidation and corroboration as to his exact meaning.
Kerry has now given us that corroboration and I commend you for being WAY ahead of the power curve on this one.
Well done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aristotle The Hun
PO1
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Naples FL
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, Me#1,
Well done is a very high compliment. Particularly from a person of your general demeanor. 
I haven't had a "master plan". I wasn't laying in wait patiently looking for the right time to take another poke at Kerry. I just fell into being motivated to revisit the issue at the same time that the Globe was interviewing Kerry.
Rather tha feeling like I was ahead of the curve I felt more like I was rushing to catch up as the story unfolded.
When I am doing the right thing it feels like the wind at my back blessing my actions beyond any personal wisdom or ability I might have. So I will pass the compliment along to my advisor.
Sam
_________________
Deportè Monsieur Kerrè |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
there's a ton of reading here for me to do...will take some time...
so... would there be any record of deferrments in someone's 'military' records?????
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Stevie,
To the extent that I understand your question . . .
No. Deferments refer to deferments from the draft, which is the province of local draft boards. Those records are probably kept, but I don't know where off hand.
Kerry had to have gotten some deferement(s) while at college, I would think. I do believe this was written about during the campaign - also don't recall where.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doc Farmer
LCDR
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aristotle The Hun wrote: | Intellectual Conservative just published my "little Acorns Piece. This note from the editor.
Sam,
I posted your piece here:
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article4388.html
I remember reading Steve Sailer's piece when it came out -- he does a great job, and obviously you do too.
We're pleased to run your piece. |
Excellent article, ATH. I just posted it over at CW.
_________________
Fat, Bald and Ugly - And PROUD Of It! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
