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Jerald L. Parsoneault
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Sacramento
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 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Reading all this, I suddenly realized I was tortured along with many others during Plebe Year at the Naval Academy.
First Classmen would occasionally return from liberty at midnight, wake up the 40 Plebes or so in in their Company, and hold "greyhound races."
Uniform for the races was a jock strap worn over your nose and mouth like a muzzle -- no other articles of clothing were allowed.
One Plebe was designated as the rabbit. He got to remove the jock from his face and was given a 15 second head start. The pack of "greyhounds" was then ordered to catch the rabbit -- if the pack failed, we were all punished, if the pack caught the rabbit, the rabbit was punished.
The sight of 40 Plebes chasing the "rabbit up" and down five sets of stairs, and around the dormitory barking like dogs (another form of torture perhaps) would no doubt have caused Senator Durbin to have a coronary.
In any case, how this taught us to be "officers and gentlemen" is beyond me. It did teach us one thing however, and that was to keep a clean jock strap in our locker at all times.
Nalt |
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blue9t3
Admiral
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1246
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure you quickly learned one thing quickly, that would be not to go to fast or to slow! 
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Did they have these kinds of races at Abu Ghraib?? 
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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rparrott21
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 760
Location: Mckinney, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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blue9t3
Admiral
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1246
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="GM Strong"]Did they have these kinds of races at Abu Ghraib?? [/quote]
Nah, they only had naked leapfrog and lampshade! 
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Bob51
Seaman
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Belfast
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Comparative technique
| Quote: | Iraqis Found in Torture House Tell of Brutality of Insurgents
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: June 19, 2005
KARABILA, Iraq, Sunday, June 19 - Marines on an operation to eliminate insurgents that began Friday broke through the outside wall of a building in this small rural village to find a torture center equipped with electric wires, a noose, handcuffs, a 574-page jihad manual - and four beaten and shackled Iraqis.
A marine outside room in a house where Iraqi hostages were held and tortured by insurgents in Karabila.
The remains of a car lay in front of a house used as bomb factory, next to a house where insurgents tortured hostages in Karabila, in western Iraq.
The American military has found torture houses after invading towns heavily populated by insurgents - like Falluja, where the anti-insurgent assault last fall uncovered almost 20 such sites. But rarely have they come across victims who have lived to tell the tale.
The men said they told the marines, from Company K, Third Marines, Second Division, that they had been tortured with shocks and flogged with a strip of rubber for more than two weeks, unseen behind the windows of black glass. One of them, Ahmed Isa Fathil, 19, a former member of the new Iraqi Army, said he had been held and tortured there for 22 days. All the while, he said, his face was almost entirely taped over and his hands were cuffed.
In an interview with an embedded reporter just hours after he was freed, he said he had never seen the faces of his captors, who occasionally whispered at him, "We will kill you." He said they did not question him, and he did not know what they wanted. Nor did he ever expect to be released.
"They kill somebody every day," said Mr. Fathil, whose hands were so swollen he could not open a can of Coke offered to him by a marine. "They've killed a lot of people."
From the house on Saturday, there could be heard sounds of fighting from the large-scale offensive to eliminate strongholds of insurgents, many of whom stream across Iraq's porous border with Syria. [Page 10.]
As the marines walked through the house - a squat one-story building of sand-colored brick - the broken black window glass crunched under their boots. Light poured in, revealing walls and ceiling shredded by shrapnel from the blast they had set off to break in through a wall. Latex gloves were strewn on the floor. A kerosene lantern lay on its side, shattered.
The manual recovered - a fat, well-thumbed Arabic paperback - listed itself as the 2005 First Edition of "The Principles of Jihadist Philosophy," by Abdel Rahman al-Ali. Its chapters included "How to Select the Best Hostage," and "The Legitimacy of Cutting the Infidels' Heads."
Also recovered were several fake passports, a black hood, the painkiller Percoset, handcuffs and an explosives how-to-guide. Three cars loaded with explosives were parked in a garage outside the house. The marines blew them up.
This is Mr. Fathil's account of his ordeal.
He was having a lunch of lettuce and cucumbers in the kitchen of his home in the small desert village of Rabot with his mother and brother. An Opel sedan pulled up. Two men in masks carrying machine guns got out, seized him, and, leaving his mother sobbing, put him in the trunk of their car.
The drove to the house here. They taped his face, put cotton in his ears, and began to beat him.
The only possible explanation for the seizure he could think of was his time in the new Iraqi Army. Unemployed and illiterate, Mr. Fathil signed up after the American occupation began.
But nine months ago, when continuing working meant risking the wrath of the Jihadists, he quit. In all, 10 friends from his unit have been killed, he said. So have his uncle and his uncle's son, though neither ever worked as soldiers.
The men tended to talk in whispers, he said, telling him five times a day, in low voices in his ear, to pray, and offering him sand, instead of water, to wash himself. Just once, he asked if he could see his mother, and one of them said to him, "You won't leave until you are dead."
Mr. Fathil did not know there were other hostages. He found out only after the captors left and he was able to remove the tape from his eyes.
The routine in the house was regular. Because of the windows, it was always dark inside. Mr. Fathil said he was fed once a day, and allowed to use a bathroom as necessary in the back of the house.
When marines burst in, one of the captives was lying under a stairwell, badly beaten. At first, they thought he was dead.
The others were emaciated and battered. Mr. Fathil had fared the best. The other three were taken by medical helicopter to Balad, a base near Baghdad with a hospital.
But he still had been hurt badly. Marks from beatings criss-crossed his back, and deep pocks, apparently from electric shock burns, were gouged in his skin.
The shocks, he said, felt "like my soul is being ripped out of my body." But when he would start to scream, and his body would pull up from the shock, they would begin to beat him, he said.
Mr. Fathil has been at the Marine base south of Qaim since his release, on Saturday around noon. His mother still does not know he is alive.
When she was mentioned, he bowed and lowered his head, and began to cry softly, wiping his face with the jumpsuit given him by the marines.
He asked a reporter for help to move to another town, because it was too dangerous for his family to remain in their house. He begged not to have a photograph taken, even of the scars on his back. The captors took pictures of that, he said.
His town has always been a good place, he said, but the militants have made it hell.
"These few are destroying it," he said, his face streaked with tears. "Everybody they take, they kill. It's on a daily basis pretty much." |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Bob, What do you think would motivate our U.S. Senators Durbin, Kennedy, Kerry, Gov. Howard Dean to make such statements as they have when considering the reality of history and current events?
Do you in China ever have politicians undermine International Security Policy?
Do you think George Bush or John Kerry would be a better World Leader at this point?
I found your article to be accurate. I could not find the source but believe the woman author works for the New York Times. Here is the adress for her 'blog' thing:
http://annotatedtimes.blogrunner.com/snapshot/D/5/6/386D97E000120756/ |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Story Source is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/international/middleeast/19torture.html?hp
I think Little Dickie Durbin should be forced to go to the well of the Senate and read this story into the Senate Record!!
Maybe the brainless twit will have to recognize REAL TORTURE as opposed to lowering the temperature and playing rap music to make a prisoner uncomfortable.
According to Durbin we are to feel ashamed that our "Gitmo Gulag" turned off the air conditioning while our enemies only whipped people to death for 3 weeks and applied electric shocks!!
Americans who want to cut and run from Iraq should realize that they will be treated the same way by these ghouls if we lose the war on terror.
They regard all non-muslims as infidels, this means they would execute any American even those who oppose the war.
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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Jarhead
Ensign
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Army_(Ret) wrote: | | blue9t3 wrote: | If I were the head chef, It would be ham sandwiches or pickled pigs feet!
ps. from now on the skivies on the head should be refered to as the "lampshade manuever" |
I have the complete solution. Since some are calling for GITMO to be closed down, close it! Release all the prisoners on the spot with directions straight into Havana. Since Castro is the absolute Godly Icon to the Anti-American left, let him handle the prisoners his way, and let's see how the American left reacts to that. We would be killing several birds with one stone. Remember the boatlift people back in the 80's, when Castro emptied all his prisons out? |
Army,
If a liberal Democrat politician will sponser a GITMO detainee, we will be happy to release them into their custody. The stipulations are that they (liberal and detainee) must be be chained together at the wrist, must share the same sleeping quarters and that the detainee must have all of his weapons returned to him that he was captured on the battlefield with. Detainees, you may now be released into the custody of Senators Turdbin, Kennedy, Biden and Shumer.
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Semper Fi'
Jarhead
USMC 71-74
"I am a bold Internationalist, I will only disperse American troups around the world at the discretion of the United Nations" - John Kerry
$UCK THE CORRUPT UNITED NATIONS - I am a Jarhead and I approve this message |
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Army_(Ret)
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Jarhead wrote: | | Army_(Ret) wrote: | | blue9t3 wrote: | If I were the head chef, It would be ham sandwiches or pickled pigs feet!
ps. from now on the skivies on the head should be refered to as the "lampshade manuever" |
I have the complete solution. Since some are calling for GITMO to be closed down, close it! Release all the prisoners on the spot with directions straight into Havana. Since Castro is the absolute Godly Icon to the Anti-American left, let him handle the prisoners his way, and let's see how the American left reacts to that. We would be killing several birds with one stone. Remember the boatlift people back in the 80's, when Castro emptied all his prisons out? |
Army,
If a liberal Democrat politician will sponser a GITMO detainee, we will be happy to release them into their custody. The stipulations are that they (liberal and detainee) must be be chained together at the wrist, must share the same sleeping quarters and that the detainee must have all of his weapons returned to him that he was captured on the battlefield with. Detainees, you may now be released into the custody of Senators Turdbin, Kennedy, Biden and Shumer. |
Great idea! And add sKerry, Gore, Boxer, Pelosi, and Gorelick in there for good measure.
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Peace is acheived through victory |
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Bob51
Seaman
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Belfast
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Uisguex Jack wrote: | Bob, What do you think would motivate our U.S. Senators Durbin, Kennedy, Kerry, Gov. Howard Dean to make such statements as they have when considering the reality of history and current events?
Do you in China ever have politicians undermine International Security Policy?
Do you think George Bush or John Kerry would be a better World Leader at this point?
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Uisquex, I'll have to disappoint you but by way of excuse let me tell you my morning news update habit. As a regular at the local Internet/coffee bar in Hong Kong, newspapers are brought to me as they arrive. This morning the first to come was China Daily, then the South China Morning Post and finally The Standard. My excuse for knowing almost nothing about the people you name is that "American" news is usually only one or two "wire" articles at most. As a test, I asked an SCMP journalist today what he thought of "Durbin". He had never heard of the name and he has stories in the paper most days. I've never seen any mention of Durbin in any of the papers. With your question in mind, I turned the pages of each more slowly looking for any mention of America. China Daily had one story since they are interested in the warming military ties between the U.S. and Vietnam.
| Quote: | Since restoring diplomatic links with the United States, two-way trade has rocketed from $451 million in 1995 to $6.4 billion in 2004. Following a bilateral trade pact in 2001, the United States has emerged as Vietnam's most crucial commercial partner.
Vietnam's Trade Ministry says it expects $6.2 billion of exports to the United States in 2005, most of it clothing, fish, shrimp, furniture and coffee.
In addition to meeting Bush, Khai is scheduled to discuss military ties with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Khai's trip also will take him to Boston and New York. |
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-06/20/content_452848.htm
Even a story about another massacre memorial in a village where 20000 were massacred by the Japanese got more prominence.
Didn't really notice anything in the SCMP on U.S. issues though I probably skipped another "bomb in Baghdad" story somewhere near the back in the "World" Section.
There was one U.S. "political" story in The Standard about the U.S. welcoming Sudan's "No. 2" perpetrator of genocide. This story was just lifted from the Los Angeles Times. Pithiest quote in the story was | Quote: | | bringing Gosh to visit Washington at this time is tantamount to inviting the head of the Nazi SS at the height of the Holocaust. |
see http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Focus/GF20Dh02.html The "realpolitik" centred on | Quote: | In September, then-secretary of state Colin Powell accused Sudan of committing genocide in Darfur. President George W Bush reiterated that charge earlier this month.
Yet cooperation between the CIA and the Mukhabarat, Sudan's intelligence agency, has steadily grown |
Why mention one day's (non U.S. -centric) stories? Because everyday is similar. We really have no way of knowing the U.S. players or the context of their game.
My guess at an answer to your first question would be that for those politicians it has become some kind of game detached from reality, history and beyond the bounds of ethical behaviour.
For your second question, the answer would be more general. Politicians who undermine party policy spend the rest of the days under house arrest. What else can you do with people who "commit errors" and engage in "wrongful thinking"?
Your third question is the most difficult. One individual you name is seen outside the U.S. primarily in terms of his role, not his characteristics as an individual. The other you name is not remembered here other than as one who challenged and failed. Is this surprising? Who ran against Koizumo? What are the names of the top three in China's system? Who would be better than the incumbent in Korea?
We really can't appreciate the niceties of U.S. political debate since we have no form guide.
Regards
Bob |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getmailfiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2005/06/20&ID=Ar00800
Facing the Music
Mark Steyn on Democratic complaints about Guantanamo
Mark Steyn
~snip~
"Where the anti-Gitmo crowd went wrong was in expanding its objections from the legal status of the prisoners to the treatment they‚re receiving. By any comparison — ie, not just with Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot — they’re getting better than they deserve. It’s the first gulag in history where the torture victims put on weight. Each prisoner released from Guantanamo receives a new copy of the Koran plus a free pair of blue jeans in his new size: the average detainee puts on 13 pounds during his stay, thanks to the “mustard-baked dill fish”, “baked Tandoori chicken breast” and other delicacies. These and other recipes from the gulag’s kitchen have now been collected by some Internet wags and published as The Gitmo Cookbook.
Judging from the way he’s dug himself in, Dick Durbin, the Number Two Democrat in the US Senate, genuinely believes Gitmo is analogous to Belsen, the gulags and the killing fields. But he crossed a line, from anti-Bush to anti-American, and most Americans have no interest in following him down that path.You can’t claim (as Democrats do, incessantly) to “support our troops” and then dump them in the same category as the Nazis and the Khmer Rouge. In the hermetically sealed echo chamber between the Dem leadership, the mainstream US media, Hollywood, Ivy League “intellectuals” and European sophisticates, the gulag cracks are utterly unexceptional. But, for a political party that keeps losing elections because it has less and less appeal outside a few coastal enclaves, Durbin’s remarks are devastating. The Democrats flopped in 2002 and 2004 because they were seen as incoherent on national security issues. Explicitly branding themselves as the “terrorists’ rights” party is unlikely to improve their chances for 2006." |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dick bin Durbin was spotted at Gitmo inspecting the treatment of detainees. An EIB photographer caught this pic:
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Bob thanks so much for your thought full response.
Lately I've taken to watching CCTV fastidiously and am impressed with the most comprehensive global news coverage and parochial propaganda I have ever consumed.
Central China TV
http://www.cctv.com/english/index.shtml
Very good news coverage.... that is except when covering Chinese news.
I was most impressed during the Central Committee meetings of their guidelines for Hong Kong businessmen to avoid having their historically valuable architecture damaged when the Mainland decides to invade. This was done when they passed that 'non secession' law.
For me, we here in America have a real problem with what you have stated concisely:
BoB 51 writes: | Quote: | | My guess at an answer to your first question would be that for those politicians it has become some kind of game detached from reality, history and beyond the bounds of ethical behavior. |
For some insight on the lack of ethics one does not need to look very deeply in to the Democratic party.
Joe Biden is a confirmed plagiarist.
Ted Kennedy is a confirmed drunk driver and Murderer.
Joe Kennedy ....... well during WWII while ambassador to the UK, he used his position to commandeer cargo space on ships evacuating Jews from Europe and used the ships holds to import liquor to the U.S.
http://www.ytedk.com/jpk.htm |
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