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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Kansas City, MO.
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 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Jerald L. Parsoneault wrote: | I have been thinking for sometime now about how to best address the situation at Gitmo.
As a test, why not select 50 of the enemy combatants from Gitmo and transfer them to the general population in a cross-section of maximum security prisons like Pelican Bay Penitentiary in California. Let them share cells with hardened inmates who don't care about their sensitivities, special needs, or well being -- really mean inmates who hate their guts, in fact.
After three months, have the wardens call in the the transferees and ask them if they want to stay or go back to the "Natzi, Gulag, Concentration Camp, Torture Chamber, Hell Hole" at Gitmo.
Oh, by the way, be sure to have members of the press present so they can document the combatants on their hands and knees pleading and kissing the hands of the wardens for giving them the opportunity to return to their former life at Gitmo.
Nalt |
Do you think they would still be alive after the first night?
_________________
Terry Boone PCF 90
Qui Nhon 68-69 |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| redleg2 wrote: | | This a$$hole avoided VN by getting an education like so many of his fellow 'rats. How does he get the kahunas to call our troops Nazi's? |
what liberal school of 'free thinking' taught him to say that? |
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Snipe
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 574
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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OK. I don't get mad, I get even. This person is a US Senator from my
state. He's not MY Senator, just from my state. That said, I'm not
going to write any letters to him or e-mail him or anything else that
would indicate that I'm upset with him. No flames, no nothing. What
I AM going to do is activly work for whatever Republican Candidate that
is running against him. Phones. Door-To-Door. Any grunt work that
needs doing. Lick stamps. Whatever. This guy has got to be put out
of office. Motivation is a wonderful thing.
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Tin Can Sailor |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Finally, some Republicans are standing up to these outrageous outbursts coming from the looney left;
| Quote: | Durbin rebuked on floor of Senate
By Rowan Scarborough and James G. Lakely
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published June 17, 2005
The Senate Armed Services Committee chairman yesterday accused Sen. Richard J. Durbin of insulting American soldiers with a "grievous error in judgment" by comparing U.S. treatment of al Qaeda suspects to the crimes of Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Pol Pot, and demanded that the Senate's No. 2 Democrat apologize.
The rebuke followed a similar rebuke by the commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who called Mr. Durbin "totally out of line."
Republican lawmakers lined up to condemn the remarks as making the war on terror more dangerous for American troops. |
MORE
Most telling from the end of the article;
| Quote: | Several Democrats ducked the furor yesterday.
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, New York Democrat, declined to comment, saying she had not heard Mr. Durbin's speech. When a reporter read the passage to her, she declined again.
The offices of Democratic Sens. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut did not answer calls for comment. |
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Clark County Conservative |
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Uisguex Jack
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 613
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Talking about Nazi's and the like I was listening to NPR two days back and they had some moron explaining that no one knew what the Nazi's were up to in the concentration camps until after the war and liberation therein.
This is a total B.S. Liberal lie...... My grand parents had to leave Belgrade in 39, as U.S. Diplomats thru Berlin. They'd been living in Europe from 30 till they left. Everyone knew what the Nazi's were up to and the forefathers of Americas current Democratic party supported it whole heartedly. Charles Lindbergh, Henry Ford and most importantly Joe Kennedy.
History Does seem to repeat itself among those too enlightened to be bothered with reading it. The Irony of Kennedy chiming in on this issue is not lost on me.
The whole Durbin thing makes me furious. I dare say an inmate down in gitmo has a better chance of getting out of there with his honour in tact than a good looking young lady visiting any Kennedy compound anywhere Ted is in charge of.
Kennedy actually blurted out some up surd line about Simulating Drowning yesterday!! Well uncle Teddy Chapaquidik was no simulation was it? And there was no justice for the victim there......
Just Disgusting. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Uisguex Jack wrote: | | Everyone knew what the Nazi's were up to and the forefathers of Americas current Democratic party supported it whole heartedly. Charles Lindbergh, Henry Ford and most importantly Joe Kennedy. |
Well, as long as the Demos are now in the throes of "Apology Du Jour", perhaps this might be an opportune moment for the Kennedy clan to apologize to the world for their miscreant, booze-running old man. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Senator "Dick" now backpeddling, must think we are all deaf, dumb, and blind!! We all really didn't see and hear his EXACT WORDS.
He blames the RIGHT WING MEDIA for his stupidity.
| Quote: | Durbin blames media for 'Nazi' flap
WASHINGTON, June 17 (UPI) -- U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., says right-wing media misrepresented comments he made about abuse of terror suspects, which he compared to Nazi abuses.
Durbin late Tuesday read what he said was an e-mail message from an FBI agent regarding alleged prisoner abuse. Durbin said if it didn't identify the source of the information "you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime."
Several high-ranking Republicans responded Thursday. Sen. John Warner, R-Va., said, "The danger the loose comments such as that, comparison which have no basis in fact or history, could do harm to the men and women" in the U.S. military. Warner called for an apology.
Durbin did not, however, back down. Saying he wasn't criticizing service personnel, he blamed the right-wing media for taking his words out of context. He said abusive treatment of prisoners was something most likely in "repressive regimes" than the United States. |
SOURCE
_________________
“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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GM Strong
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Penna
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Durbin just plain stepped in huge excrement piles. He can think he has done something meaningful, but he is just driving the mainstream away. He is so put of line, he can't understand the damage he is doing to himself and the Liberal Left. Keep it up Senator Durbin, you are hurting yourself and your own party.
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8th Army Korea 68-69 |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Who would have thought that after we were viciously attacked on 9/11 that even the liberals could find any room in their hearts to have pity on these terrorists. Enough benefit of the doubt and pity to risk American lives, perpetuated while their empassioned statements are played on Al Jazeera for the rest of the terrorist breading world to view. These same people that they are fighting for want them, their children, their elderly parents and their pet dog DEAD. They want it so bad that they prefer to kill themselves in the process. Where was Durbin and those like him on 9/11? Did he know anyone that burned alive, or threw themsleves 100 stories to their death? I heard someone say once that the only way a liberal would wake up is if one of the terrorist's planes had crashed right on their expensive home with all of their family members inside. |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/041004-gitmo.htm
| Quote: | Legal Times October 04, 2004
U.S. Building New Prisons for Terrorists
Construction of Guantanamo jails signals long-term plans for base
In-Depth Coverage By Vanessa Blum
GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba -- The government is building for the long haul in the war on terror.
The Defense Department plans to construct a permanent medium-security prison facility here as part of an effort to transform the U.S. naval base from a makeshift detention camp to a state-of-the-art penitentiary for terrorist agents the government considers too dangerous to set free.
The 200-bed compound, known as Camp Six, is expected to cost $24 million and will be the base's second permanent prison structure. The first, a 100-cell, super-max style facility known as Camp Five, opened in April.
Together, the two structures represent the future of Guantanamo Bay, which is being retooled to house those prisoners found to pose a continuing threat to the United States.
"If your threat level is high and your intelligence value is high, you're probably going to live here for awhile," says Army Brig. Gen. Martin Lucenti, deputy commanding general of the joint task force in charge of detentions at Guantanamo Bay.
Over time, prisoners determined not to meet that standard will be transferred from the base to their home countries. By paring down the prison population to the "worst of the worst" -- those who have been convicted of war crimes or have deep ties to al Qaeda -- the Bush administration hopes to appease international critics, satisfy the federal courts, and improve an installation that has been roundly criticized for inadequate facilities and alleged prisoner abuses.
"We need to find a way to use Guantanamo that accounts for the reality of the war on terror and wins the approval of the international community," Lucenti says.
Camp Six will be built by Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root as part of a $500 million Pentagon contract for emergency construction worldwide.
Roughly 550 prisoners are currently held at Guantanamo Bay. The majority reside in Camp Delta, where they are kept in rows of metal-mesh cells, 6 feet by 8 feet. About 100 of the most compliant prisoners are housed in communal structures, where they live 10 to a room and eat as a group. To date, 202 prisoners have been transferred off the base -- 146 for release and 56 to the control of other governments.
Efforts to weed out and release detainees who are well-behaved and have little to offer interrogators have accelerated since June, when the U.S. Supreme Court decided a case brought on behalf of Guantanamo prisoners. The Court ruled that the government cannot hold enemy combatants indefinitely without affording them a meaningful chance to challenge their detentions. Last month, 46 detainees were transferred from Guantanamo Bay to Pakistan and Afghanistan, leaving the current population at its lowest level since June 2002.
But the administration has no plans to abandon Guantanamo Bay, which has the advantage of being U.S.-controlled territory far removed from the mainland. Rather, the government intends to fortify its facilities here and ultimately place all remaining detainees in permanent structures.
Military law expert Eugene Fidell says the administration may still be figuring out how to use the naval base most effectively. "Guantanamo Bay has been a prison in search of a theme, and it's continuing to morph," says Fidell, a partner in the D.C. office of Feldesman Tucker Leifer Fidell. "What it's morphing into now is the human equivalent of Yucca Mountain radioactive waste facility -- built to last 10,000 years."
PRISON LIFE
From the air, Camp Five looks like a wheel with five spokes radiating off a central hub. The $31 million compound, which is home to 50 of Guantanamo Bay's most disruptive and violent inmates, was modeled after a super-max prison at the Miami Correctional Facility, about 60 miles north of Indianapolis, Ind.
Prisoners live in solitary 9-foot by 12-foot cells and have little human contact. They are permitted to exercise outdoors in a small fenced-in area for one hour every other day and are removed from the premises only for medical emergencies. Cameras in each cell allow guards to monitor detainees from a central control room -- eliminating the need for a large cadre of military police.
While detailed plans have been drawn up for Camp Six, construction is unlikely to begin before the end of the year. Like Camp Five, Camp Six will be a modern prison facility that comports with industry standards set by the American Corrections Association. Such standards, promulgated to ensure the safety of inmates and guards, address everything from mandated training procedures for prison staff to the lighting level of prison cells.
Miami Correctional Facility Superintendent John VanNatta, who ran detention operations at Guantanamo Bay from November 2002 until October 2003 and helped design Camp Six, says the new prison will be oriented toward long-term incarceration, as well as rehabilitation. VanNatta, an officer in the U.S. Army Reserves, declined to elaborate on plans for Camp Six.
"The mission in Cuba is totally different than the mission in ordinary corrections," he says. "All we're trying to do is get as much intelligence as we possibly can."
Francois Boo, an analyst for the Alexandria, Va., think tank GlobalSecurity.org, says the investment in permanent structures at Guantanamo Bay reflects the administration's long-range plans.
"When they first started shipping detainees to Guantanamo Bay, they were held in Camp X-Ray, a very crude facility. They improved on that by building Camp Delta," says Boo. "If they are considering building facilities that look more like regular penitentiaries, I would guess they intend on keeping those guys for a long time."
Since January 2002, Halliburton's Kellogg, Brown & Root unit has performed more than $50 million in construction projects at Guantanamo Bay. The work is performed under a Pentagon contract for emergency construction work worldwide known as ConCap, short for Contingency Construction Capabilities Contract.
The contract was devised in the mid-1990s so that military units could quickly obtain construction and engineering services in response to natural disasters, military operations, humanitarian emergencies, and other crises. At the time a ConCap contract is awarded, it is not known precisely what work a company will be required to perform.
The first such contract went to Perini International of Framingham, Mass., and J.A. Jones Management Services of Charlotte, N.C., in 1995. The second, ConCap II, was awarded to KBR in 2001. With payments under that contract close to reaching its $300 million ceiling, a third ConCap contract, this one with a ceiling of $500 million, was given to KBR in July.
The Pentagon agency in charge of the ConCap contract would not disclose how many other companies were considered for the new contract. According to news reports, three firms, including KBR, were considered for ConCap II.
POPULATION LOSS
The new prison may one day be home to detainees convicted of war crimes before military commissions. So far, 15 detainees have been slated to face trial before the commissions and four have been officially charged. The first military commission proceedings were held in August.
With construction of Camp Six, the capacity of Guantanamo Bay's prisons will reach 1,300. But Pentagon officials say they intend to reduce, not grow, the prison population.
In recent months, two separate processes have been implemented to streamline the evaluation of detainees. The first verifies each prisoner held here is an enemy combatant -- someone who fought with the Taliban or al Qaeda against the United States or allied forces. To date, 63 reviews have been completed. One prisoner was found not to be an enemy combatant and was returned to Pakistan.
The second process, which Pentagon officials hope to begin before the end of the year, will evaluate each prisoner classified as an enemy combatant on an annual basis to determine whether the detainee continues to pose a threat to the United States or continues to possess valuable intelligence. In each case, a three-member panel will recommend continued detention, transfer to the custody of another government, or release.
"We have thought our way through this very carefully, certainly since the Supreme Court decision," says Army Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, commander of the Guantanamo Bay task force. "Every step needs to be in place to provide a fair process to every detainee. . . . We don't wish to detain anyone any longer than is necessary."
Human rights advocates say the Pentagon should be doing more to release prisoners, not planning for their long-term detention.
"There is no longer an international armed conflict between the governments of the United States and Afghanistan. The government needs to resolve the cases of those held at Guantanamo either by prosecuting them for war crimes before a fair and impartial tribunal or arranging for detainees to be repatriated," says Wendy Patten, U.S. advocacy director for Human Rights Watch. "Instead, the administration continues to claim the power to hold people without charges until terrorism is defeated."
From the Pentagon's perspective, releasing detainees has risks. Military officials at Guantanamo Bay claim seven individuals freed from the prison camp are known have returned to fight in Afghanistan. Last week, according to the Associated Press, a Danish man who was released from Guantanamo Bay in February told a television station in Denmark that he planned to make his way to Chechnya to fight on behalf of Islamic militants.
Hood, who replaced Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller as commander of the Guantanamo Bay joint task force in May, says he is committed to sending home detainees who are no longer of intelligence value.
But those detainees who are considered dangerous or who have not cooperated with interrogators won't be going anywhere any time soon.
"I believe it would be very dangerous to release them," Hood says. "These are men who have the capability toplan, organize, and lead significant attacks." |
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Schadow
Vice Admiral
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 936
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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The art of the non-apology as taught by professor Durbin:
| Quote: | | "I sincerely regret if what I said caused anyone to misunderstand my true feelings." |
So, we are all slobbering morons because we couldn't understand the 'true intent and meaning' of his traitorous remarks. Not since John Kerry's speeches were played repeatedly in NV prison camps has such comfort been provided to an enemy of our nation.
And Al Jazeera has made sure that his words have been spread across the Middle East - but with no "apology" attached.
Schadow
_________________
Capt, 8th U.S. Army, Korea '53 - '54 |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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So now is he flopping?
Durbin stays on attack over prisoners
By Deirdre Shesgreen
Post-Dispatch Washington Bureau
06/18/2005
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/newswatch/story/2BE50E0E5858E5B786257024003238BD?OpenDocument
~snip~
"But in an interview, he sounded unbowed.
"If there's a lesson to be learned here it's not that my remarks were wrong or that there's any need for apology," Durbin told the Post-Dispatch Friday. "It's the fact that they have successfully twisted them out of context."
His critics, he said, are trying to deflect attention from the underlying debate about whether the Bush administration has crossed a line in its treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere.
"I wanted to call attention to this FBI memo and that fact that some things are going on there (at Guantanamo Bay) that . . . do not represent American values," Durbin said."
~snip~
Indeed, Durbin's sharp response to this week's flap is a sign that he intends to maintain his aggressive stance.
"I'm certainly not going to be intimidated by the right-wing message machine," he said. "If I'm going to back off every time they decide their unhappy with my statements, then I really won't be doing my job. We're going to continue to follow this (and) demand that the administration be held accountable." |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://durbin.senate.gov/durbinbio.doc
Married to Loretta Schaefer
(If his wife is by chance Jewish, or even German, my guess is she isn't too happy with his comments either).
| Quote: |
Biographical Facts
Name
Richard J. Durbin
Born
November 21, 1944 in East St. Louis, IL
Parents
William Durbin and Ann Durbin (née Kutkin)
Family
Married to Loretta Schaefer Durbin
Three children and one grandchild
Education
Assumption High School, East St. Louis, IL
Georgetown University, B.S., 1966
Georgetown University, J.D., 1969
Occupation
Attorney/Legislator
Honorary Degrees
Millikin University, 1994
Lincoln College, 1997
Illinois Institute of Technology, 2003
Public Office
Jan. 1983 – Jan. 1997, U.S. House of Representatives
Jan. 1997 – Present, U.S. Senate
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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yep, I'm getting tons of cr*p over on the prissy chick site also.
only about 8 of the liberals have braved the slaughter on a Durbin thread tho.
Many military wives, mothers, sisters there and then just us generic conservatives....
one of them had the nerve to say I wore a tinfoil hat. 
I looked in the mirror and didn't see one. 
(... going to kitchen to check my tinfoil supply...)
does Kerry have it in that 'case' he keeps his secret hat?
heard on news, so many angry calls coming into his office,
the lines overloaded. likely story.... 
I'll call on Monday..... and call McCain's office - haven't heard
a word in the news from him on it!
wow - it's hard to keep up with you all.... so much to read....
so little eyesight.... so few brain waves....
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:12 am Post subject: |
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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/18/223251.shtml
Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:31 p.m. EDT
Gingrich Seeks Durbin Censure
"In a letter sent to United States Senators on Saturday, June 18, 2005, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich called on the Senate to censure Senator Richard Durbin for his speech comparing U.S. servicemen serving in Guantanamo Bay to those of the Nazi Gestapo, Soviet KGB, and Pol Pot’s killers in Cambodia.
"Senator Richard Durbin has dishonored the United States and the entire U.S. Senate. Only by a vote to censure Senator Durbin for his conduct can the U.S. Senate restore its dignity and defend American honor," Gingrich wrote.
He added, "It’s one thing for one Senator to endanger young Americans and defame America; it would be the shame of the Senate if the other 99 Senators did not stand up to defend America and to defend the reputation of our young men and women in uniform."
Gingrich called Senator Durbin’s comparison "despicable."
"Nine million innocent human beings were murdered in Hitler’s death camps, nearly three million perished in the gulags under Stalin, and more than one and a half millions were slaughtered in the killing fields of Cambodia at the hand of Pol Pot. And while not a single terrorist has died in detention at Guantanamo, Durbin sees fit to liken our American service men and women to the terrifying murderers of three despotic evil regimes."
Gingrich continued, "This moral equivalence isn’t just utterly false; it endangers the lives of our young men and women in the military because it arms every radical Islamist with the official-record words of a Senate leader to justify their war of terror against civilized people everywhere."
Gingrich added that a censure would help "reaffirm a standard for healthy, rational debate."
"By voting for or against the censure, the rest of the members of the U.S. Senate can go on record and make clear how they judge Durbin’s characterization of American soldiers." Gingrich continued, "It will also send a clear message to terrorists who will use the words of a Senate leader against us that the Senate stands in support of America and our military and against those who seek to destroy the free people of the United States."
Gingrich also wrote that a censure would be "justified" and that there is "historic precedent for censuring Senators whose words bring dishonor and disrepute on the Senate and impair its dignity; Senator Durbin’s words fit that precedent."
Gingrich concludes the letter by calling on the Senate to act. "In this case, expressing outrage is not enough. It is time for the Senate to act. Senator Durbin must be censured now." |
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