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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| shawa wrote: | | Quote: | Atrocities of the Past
By DAVID M. HALBFINGER, Published: August 9, 2005
.....the group shot more than 100 hours over a three-day weekend, then spent six months editing it into what remains a raw and unadorned artifact, allowing the camera to gaze patiently as each witness tells his story. |
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This little edited yet unadorned package was sent out to all the VVAW franchises and shown in their recruiting meetings and used as a template for continuing so-called WSI all over the country. This propaganda tool was never an "Investigation" but merely men saying they had been in Vietnam and saying they had witnessed one thing or another. Telling stories is not an investigation.
It is just so disgusting to see this thing pulled out to be used again.  Not that it will have any major impact, but just for what it is -- |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Another from Newsmax...worth the read just to see how B.G. Burkett got into Camil's face... (emphasis mine)
| Quote: | Reprinted from NewsMax.com
'Winter Soldier' Vietnam Distortion Rides Again
Dave Eberhart, NewsMax.com
Wednesday, Aug. 10, 2005
The 34-year-old antiwar documentary "Winter Soldier," which famously features, for about a minute of its 95 minutes, young Vietnam vet John Kerry, is poised for its first significant theatrical release in the U.S., according to the New York Times.
And that fact has some Vietnam Veterans, who believe the film was thoroughly discredited, hopping mad.
The film's renaissance is scheduled for Friday at the Film Society of Lincoln Center – followed by other public screenings in Chicago, Detroit, Hartford, Minneapolis and other venues.
The film's distributors claim that the war in Iraq has made the Vietnam-era film as relevant as when it was a campy favorite on the nation's college campuses.
But B.G. Burkett, Vietnam veteran and author of "Stolen Honor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History," tells NewsMax, "It's amazing how a paper like the New York Times would publish such a story without vetting or commenting on the claims [of atrocities] in the film.
"It's pretty much settled now that much of the so-called atrocities [were] the product of outright fabrications and some even offered by persons with criminal records.
"Some of this stuff is ludicrous on its face," adds Burkett, "but it's being offered as gospel."
Burkett singles out Scott Camil, a former Marine scout and forward artillery observer, who in the film confides, "If I had to go into a village and kill 150 people just to make sure there was no one there to kill me when we walked out, that's what I did."
Burkett recalls to NewsMax a gathering at Texas Tech University where the whole phenomenon of Vietnam Vets Against the War was being addressed. When Camil made a comment directed at Burkett, the author recalls firing back, "Aren't you the same Camil that wanted to assassinate eight U.S. senators?"
Indeed, the VVAW reportedly voted on the draconian assassination measure to off the hawkish lawmakers – a vote, Burkett says, in which Kerry participated.
"Kerry voted against the assassination," recalls Burkett. "I guess he was already thinking ahead to the time those guys would be his colleagues."
Made at a three-day gathering in 1971 of Vietnam veterans telling of alleged atrocities they had reportedly seen and committed, "Winter Soldier" was later shown at the Cannes and Berlin film festivals, on screens in France and England, and on German television.
<snip>
Burkett shared with NewsMax his thoughts about the International Court at The Hague, a forum which deals with war crimes – offenses that know no statute of limitations.
His fantasy is that The Hague would someday charge those who claimed atrocities during the Vietnam conflict. "I'd like to hear their defense," he says.
Newsmax - cont'd
Editor's Note:
Get your copy of the startling documentary "Stolen Honor" FREE – Click Here Now!
Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:
John Kerry
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army72
Seaman
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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This follows the thread somewhat. I watched a guy on C-Span the other day. Sorry, didn't catch the name. He was anti-war all the way. A caller asked him about how many lives were lost after the US pulled out of SE Asia. The caller mentioned a million or so. This guy answered that he questioned the callers facts and that the reason for any of the possible murders was that the US caused it by not pulling out sooner.
I tried dialing several times but never got through to the program. I've finally found someone that blamed the deaths of all those after we left on us. I couldn't believe what I was hearing!!!!!!!!!! I was so mad I think my tv flinched. Where do they find clowns like this and why would they bother to give them a voice.
He did not know the facts of roughly how many died after our troops left but had already come to the conclusion that it was our fault.
Did anone else catch his name? I would really like to ask him a few questions to see if he really is that stupid. A true Kerryite to the end. One question would be about Winter Soldier and what he thought of it.
Most people have only heard snippets of it and many think that it's an issue that is long in our past. The players from it are still active and one actually came close to becoming president. Another is still active behind the scenes (the friend of the NVA, our own Hanoi Jane).
I've seen more in depth stories about Bush's ANG service and his twins problems.
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Hillary and Kerry in '08? Something smells!! |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| army72 wrote: | This follows the thread ..... C-Span .... Where do they find clowns like this and why would they bother to give them a voice.
He did not know the facts of roughly how many died after our troops left but had already come to the conclusion that it was our fault.
Did anone else catch his name? I would really like to ask him a few questions to see if he really is that stupid. A true Kerryite to the end. One question would be about Winter Soldier and what he thought of it.
Most people have only heard snippets of it and many think that it's an issue that is long in our past. The players from it are still active and one actually came close to becoming president. Another is still active behind the scenes (the friend of the NVA, our own Hanoi Jane).
I've seen more in depth stories about Bush's ANG service and his twins problems. |
Army,
I did not see that show, and don't know the liar's name, but to answer your question as to why the communist media give these liars a voice is simple....their lies fit the 'media' script. IE, any liar who is willing to spew the liberal pap will get airtime [ie, Cindy Sheehan, Camill, et al]. Whereas by the same token, the conservatives are relegated to the back pages of a few 'fair and balanced' alternative cable channels. On a similar note, many among us know that you get more airtime the more lies you spew, so it has a domino effect....  . The new Domino Theory ... soon to replace the one that resulted in the deaths of the millions of SE asians you referred to. Pretty sure the Domino Theory has been pretty much erased from our kids history books by now! You have every right to be incensed...dunno how you can watch Cspan any more, as they no longer make an effort to be fair and balanced!
Deuce |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:06 am Post subject: |
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The ideological myopia continues...makes you wanna hurl...
| Quote: | MOVIE REVIEW
Winter Soldier (4 out of 5 stars)
Film is stark document of Vietnam War and the times.
Roger Moore
Sentinel Movie Critic
September 29, 2005
In February 1971, 125 Vietnam War veterans gathered in Detroit to talk about what they had seen and done in the war. News reporters and activist filmmakers descended on the Howard Johnson's where they met.
The reporters -- if you have a long TV-news memory, you'll recognize some -- didn't do much with the tales they heard. But the filmmakers captured it all and made Winter Soldier, a wake-up call about just what "our boys" were doing over there.
This long-unseen documentary -- it takes its title from Tom Paine's 1776 patriotic pamphlet, "Common Sense" -- earned renewed interest during last year's presidential election. John Kerry was one of those Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Jane Fonda was also involved.
That's all some needed to know.
<snip>
A lot of people spent a lot of money last election cycle telling American voters that these things never happened. But this film has photos. And it has witnesses. As one soldier says in the film, "They can't deny the testimony of all the dudes in this room."
The astonishing tales of savagery in this film, told by men who witnessed them or even took part in them, would silence any Vietnam revisionist, no matter how many Swift Boat Veterans ads he or she has seen.
<snip>
It takes a dehumanizing sort of training to make effective soldiers, creating automatic responses in the troops, removing the humanity from "the enemy."
But Vietnam exposed what this does to the men who follow through on that training. And the results weren't going to win any "hearts and minds." They were just upping the body count and turning draftees into monsters as they did.
Winter Soldier captures what many regard as a turning point in the protests against the war, when many of the men who fought it spoke out about what was being done in our name in the quagmire of Southeast Asia.
Dismiss it if you want. Treat it as just history, if you dare. Plainly, this couldn't happen again. And we're not five years into Iraq. Yet.
Roger Moore can be reached at rmoore@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5369
The Orlando Sentinel - cont'd
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A lot of people spent a lot of money last election cycle telling American voters that these things never happened. But this film has photos. And it has witnesses. As one soldier says in the film, "They can't deny the testimony of all the dudes in this room." |
well a pox on Roger Moore, Sentinel Movie Critic
note his email addy above folks, he needs some enlightenment...couple of books he should read
National ReviewSeptember 27, 2004
| Quote: |
1971: the real record
<snip>
As for the WSI, the question of its credibility was first raised by Guenter Lewy in his book, America in Vietnam. Lewy wrote that when the Naval Investigative Service (NIS) attempted to interview those who allegedly had witnessed atrocities, most refused to cooperate, even after assurances that they would not be questioned about atrocities they committed personally. Those who did cooperate never provided details of actual crimes. The NIS also discovered that some of the most grisly testimony was given by fake witnesses who had appropriated the names of real Vietnam veterans. The same thing happened to Army investigators.
Were the WSI accounts true? Lewy notwithstanding, most Vietnam veterans believe that they don't pass the smell test. But there is a way to find out. An enterprising reporter should do what Jug Burkett and Glenna Whitley did in writing their indispensable book, Stolen Valor, which uncovered 1,500 Vietnam fabricators: Get the name and service number of every one who testified before the various "tribunals" and at the Winter Soldiers event; use the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to gain access to their real records; and then check to see if those individuals were in a position to have committed or witnessed atrocities.
Anti-Kerry veterans do not argue that he had no right to speak out on the war. Nor do they deny that atrocities occurred in Vietnam. James Webb got to the heart of the matter for these veterans in a National Public Radio commentary recently: "Stories of atrocious conduct, repeated in lurid detail by Kerry before the Congress, represented not the typical experience of the American soldier, but its ugly extreme. That the articulate, urbane Kerry would validate such allegations helped to make life hell for many Vietnam veterans, for a very long time." For that, John Kerry owes his "band of brothers" a retraction and an apology, still |
@ wintersoldier.com
Excerpt-- Jug Burkett's Stolen Valor
Excerpt-- Guenter Lewy's America in Vietnam
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one of..... We The People
Last edited by kate on Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Me#1...
Ahhh, you've found one of the reasons when in Orlando we want to read the news, we buy the Tampa Tribune!
Deuce
| Me#1You#10 wrote: | The ideological myopia continues...makes you wanna hurl...
| Quote: | MOVIE REVIEW
Winter Soldier (4 out of 5 stars)
Film is stark document of Vietnam War and the times.
Roger Moore
Sentinel Movie Critic
... And we're not five years into Iraq. Yet.
Roger Moore can be reached at rmoore@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5369
The Orlando Sentinel - cont'd
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| LOl, Me #1. When I used to live in nearby Clermont, I didn't buy the Orlando paper either. I don't even buy our local papers, The Oregonian and the Columbian here. Thank goodness we have the internet and common sense. |
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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:48 am Post subject: Re: "Winter Soldier" film touring as "art&quo |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | I was reluctant to post about this...but forewarned is forearmed...I wish Steve Pitkin were able to be present outside every theatre before the showing. |
Are these people uninformed, or just don't give a hoot..
On the film's website http://www.wintersoldierfilm.com/
they have a few stills, including Steve, for publicity use
FYI, for those unfamiliar with Steve...
“Yesterday's Lies: Steve Pitkin and the Winter Soldiers” @ wintersoldier.com
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