SwiftVets.com

[rparrott21]

[PhantomSgt]

Lawmakers Reject Immediate Iraq Withdrawal

VOTED DOWN 403 to 3!!!

I'm surprised the Dems can still stand up since they are spineless bloviators.

Democrats said it was a political stunt and quickly decided to vote against it in an attempt to drain it of significance.

"A disgrace," declared House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. "The rankest of politics and the absence of any sense of shame," added Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the No. 2 House Democrat.

See the story here:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/18/D8DVAQ6O3.html


_________________
Retired AF E-8

Independent that leans right of center.

[becca1223]

Final Vote Results for Roll Call 608

Murtha

[kimberly]

I am glad that the Reps forced the hand of the Dems.

What I don't understand is re: this vote....it seems to me that the Reps may have defeated the purpose by giving the Dems MORE fodder by changing Murtha's 'language' (giving @ 6 months) to one that is immediate. I assume today that the Dems will not only be whining about the whole dang thing, but saying OF COURSE we had to vote NO, it was NOT Murtha's language, it was 'changed' to immediate. They'll say Murtha did NOT say immediate. They will say that their NO vote is indicative of NOTHING. Am I understanding this correctly? Theoretically, does 6 months vs. 'immediate' really matter?

edit to add: well, now to add to my confusion, I found this language in his statement: "To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces. "

Help?

[kimberly]

[msindependent]

kimberly, after watching, i felt sorry for him to. he made some good points, but he rambled a lot. i hope he can somehow gracefully distance himself from all this.

[dcornutt]

I have a lot of respect for Murtha..and I agree about emotion.

But, emotion..is not a policy..nor is it a strategy. He has emotionally repeated the storys of wounded vets he met. And says..it's time to bring them home.

Here we are...a few weeks before the IRaqi's hold their first primary election for perm gov. He doesn't mention the political process in Iraq.
He said only that economy and infrastructure is vital to any political future. And of course..the "reason" the economy and inftrastructure are so bad...particularly in Sunni areas...is because they keep blowing it the hell up!!! They behead contractors on TV. They kill or capture for ransom anybody who tries to rebuild their areas.

He also cited foreign polls. Good grief!!!! He mentioned the places he'd been...Anbar. Did he go to the Kurdish regions? Where they have been doing a LOT of rebuilding and investment? Did he go to the places where such construction, etc.."can" go on..because the insrugency, etc..is not blowing it up every day?

It's in the insurgents interests...to keep the streets full of muck, the buildings blown up and the neighbhoord terroized. That's what they do.

The political process in Iraq..has made REMARKABLE progress. The 3 largest sunni groups..have banded together to make a party..for the coming elections...and joined the political process. The "insurgent leadership"..are going to DIE fighting. So is zarqawi. Taht's whether we are there or not.

And as one RNC senator put it....after we leave ...then who exactly do we negociate with? His measure calls for persuing only diplomatic processes to stabilize Iraq after we leave. So...who do we talk to? Zarqawi? Former Baathists? etc? These are not people who WANT to negociate. They want to destroy the current gov as it exists..and take over. Or die trying.

And what kind of message exactly does this send to the people of IRaq right before this primary election?

A grandma in her 80s..who had grandsons in Iraq..called in to CSPAN and put it very succinctly.....Mr Murtha seems like a nice man....but....we didn't elect him president.

This all seems very concerted to me by the DNC> starting with the Plame Leak....and the recirculation of rumors about conspiricy at the WH..to LIE about intelligence etc..etc. Then...more media appreances by Dean, etc..tec...talking about president "misleading" us into war...a mistake...that us being there only makes it worse. That there is no plan..and it's going very badly.

Then...we got to get out of this mistake...etc..etc.

Then...Murtha. A vet...a Marine...sending the message that this war is done...it's hurting our military and we need to get them out now.

I would guess...strategically..the DNC is trying to thwart..what they "know" is going to be another successful election in IRaq. Haven't heard PEEP on the news about the sunni's forming a political base have you?

While I really feel, personally, for an old tired marine..who's just seen too much..and cares for his men and their safety....in a very geniune way...that's NOT the way to fight a war!! And it' sthe COMPLETE wrong message to send to our troops!!

I'm glad the DNC got called out on this. (although I don't really know how much impact it's going to have on them). You notice...they ALL backtracked when asked about specifics!! Of course ..they said...we don't support immiedate withdrawal...like it says here. Then what do you support? Umm...we'll get back to you. Or...we all feel differently about exactly what the specifics should be..etc..etc. hahahahaha.

They've been, effectively..saying that for the last few weeks! Pumping it...Bush lied, misled...war going bad...get out..bring our troops home cause we care about them fighting an illegal war and using checmicals on innocent civillians. BAH!!! It' sthe same ole crap!

I truly, truly, hope that the DNC gets reamed over this. But, I suspect they won't. Nonetheless...their damage is done. The entire world..is now deabting.."when" we are going to leave Iraq. Iraqi's are reading it. Our soliders are reading it. And I have little hope that the "MSM" is going to be a help in this.

[dcornutt]

Who were the 3 that voted "for" it?

[GM Strong]

[rparrott21]

Mckinney has more important things to worry about..who really killed Tupac..

[GenrXr]

[dcornutt]

the truth is ugly. War is ugly. It always has been. The fact that war is ugly and costly and difficult..is not a strategy or battle plan.

Should we have pulled out of WWII because of casulties? Most people remember the first years of that war didn't go very well for us. We got our arse handed to us. And there were numerous casulties.
Think about it. The more troops we land ...the angrier they got. My, My..there's a revelation. We are just making more enemies of the Japanese. And our soliders have done all they can do. Lets call it a day and get them home before anybody else gets hurt. BAH@@

In the case of Iraq...they are going to be killing each other over there for a long time to come. The goal of the insurgency..is to make the current gov and political process fail. The other objective is to divide the shiah and kurds as much as possible to lessen their political clout. If they can get them all fighting each other, etc..down to like 20 or 30% blocks of groups..the Sunnis at 20% or so..would suddenly become much more influencial and able to dictate terms..etc. Our goal, our plan, our policy our objective...is to get a political process that is democratic in nature (freely elected and representative) functioning enough to establish control over security with their own security forces/military. Most of the shiah and kurds are behind this..because they know that "numbers"/voting..means they will control Iraq. (they are together about 75% or so of Iraq). That's exactly why the Sunni's are fighting. As long as the shiah and kurds remain united..that's a voting block of 2/3 of the country...with no way to overcome it. That's why they are attacking shiah's in mosques..etc. and terroizing them.

We DO have a plan Mr Murtha! We've always had a plan! That plan is to get the Iraqi's to establish some form of freely elected gov that represents the WHOLE of Iraq..and not just Baghdad so help us God!
But the democrats don't like that plan..because it's hard. Because it's costly. Because it doesn't have a withdrawal date. So, their plan...is to do everything to undermind that plan. Their plan is ...we should have never done it in the first place..we were all misled...and we should leave. Perhaps we should apologize to Zarqawi on our way out for making him mad? Bah! They never understood the FIRST plan! They still don't see the significance of the political progress in Iraq. They have entirely refused to even mention it. They all were howling moonbat rages...prior to the first election in IRaq....about hwat a disaster it was going to be. Their entire view has been that the Iraqi do not want democratic gov..would not accept it imposed on them by our imperilistic gov and troops..etc. When the constitution came up...they argued on behalf of the sunnis, insurgency and zarqawi and continued to do so..even after the high turnout that defeated them.

They and the UN and everybody else...argues to protect the terroists and insurgent murderers...God forbid they get mistreated in jail...while they say "nothing" about the daily murders these people commit. The democratic party....is the party you put at the helm of a cruiseliner going to a vacation island....paid for by "rich people".....NOT a battleship of our nation.

[Me#1You#10]

[Deuce]

[Me#1You#10]

Deuce, shame on you

Barone on this topic...the "Big Lie" has no cover... (emphasis mine)