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kate
Admin
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 1891
Location: Upstate, New York
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 Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: NY Times: Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss |
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NYTimes --
Kerry's plan re the Swifts --
NYT requires excerpt, read the full article at the link. Long, but important read. ( 2 pages)
There is a link on the page "Graphic: Kerry's New Evidence", that has some photographs he uses to back-up his 'claims'
NY Times usually subscription -links should work. Looks like they want this entire article available to the masses
N Y Times w/ 'new evidence' graphic
N Y Times print version/ no graphics
| Quote: | Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss
By KATE ZERNIKE
Published: May 28, 2006
John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: "Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia."
He moves on to the photographs: his boat leaving the base at Ha Tien, Vietnam; the harbor; the mountains fading frame by frame as the boat heads north; the special operations team the boat was ferrying across the border; the men reading maps and setting off flares.
"They gave me a hat," Mr. Kerry says. "I have the hat to this day," he declares, rising to pull it from his briefcase. "I have the hat."
Three decades after the Vietnam War and nearly two years after Mr. Kerry's failed presidential bid, most Americans have probably forgotten why it ever mattered whether he went to Cambodia or that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accused him of making it all up, saying he was dishonest and lacked patriotism.
But among those who were on the frontlines of the 2004 campaign, the battle over Mr. Kerry's wartime service continues, out of the limelight but in some ways more heatedly — because unlike then, Mr. Kerry has fully engaged in the fight. Only those on Mr. Kerry's side, however, have gathered new evidence to prove their case.
The Swift boat group continues to spend money on Washington consultants, according to public records, and last fall it gave $100,000 to a group that promptly sued Mr. Kerry, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, for allegedly interfering with the release of a film that was critical of him.
Some of the principals behind the Swift boat group continue to press their claims. John O'Neill, the co-author of the group's bestselling manifesto, "Unfit for Command," criticizes Mr. Kerry on television talk shows and solicits money for conservative causes and candidates. In a South Carolina newspaper, William Schachte recently reprised his allegation that he was aboard the small skimmer where Mr. Kerry received the injury that led to his first Purple Heart, and that Mr. Kerry actually wounded himself.
Swift boat message boards and anti-Kerry Web sites still boil with accusations that Mr. Kerry fabricated the military reports that led to his military decorations.
Mr. Kerry, accused even by Democrats of failing to respond to the charges during the campaign, is now fighting back hard.
"They lied and lied and lied about everything," Mr. Kerry says in an interview in his Senate office. "How many lies do you get to tell before someone calls you a liar? How many times can you be exposed in America today?"
His supporters are compiling a dossier that they say will expose every one of the Swift boat group's charges as a lie and put to rest any question about Mr. Kerry's valor in combat. While it would be easy to see this as part of Mr. Kerry's exploration of another presidential run, his friends say the Swift boat charges struck at an experience so central to his identity that he would want to correct the record even if he were retiring from public life.
much more...
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as if we didnt know, they are reading this board
edit/updated links
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one of..... We The People
Last edited by kate on Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:46 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting quote:
| Quote: | | "How many lies do you get to tell before someone calls you a liar? How many times can you be exposed in America today?" |
I think it might be applicable to someone other than who he intended - kind of like the old "when you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you..."
Then there's this little bit of truth (ala sKerry's version of the truth):
| Quote: | | Mr. Kerry has signed forms authorizing the Navy to release his record — something he resisted during the campaign |
I thought that during the campaign he distinctly stated that he had released his records (we all know he didn't, but that's not the point); in fact they were supposedly all posted on his web page (so now, at least, he admits they weren't). So now he's stating (lying) that he's released his records (implying that they are public), when in fact he's only released them to very select, very few, and very friendly media sources. I only hope that someone from his new "truth corps" reads this, and responds accordingly.
But there's something really curious about sKerry's psychosis... Why are the very few months that he was in Vietnam the highlight of his career - his life, really - as far as he is concerned? I mean, why is he so obsessed with this very brief period in his life? It's really strange... I know of no reason for him to think that being acknowledged as a bona-fide war hero (false, but his obsession) qualifies him for his present public office or anything higher, so why this obsession? |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Anker-Klanker wrote: | | It's really strange... I know of no reason for him to think that being acknowledged as a bona-fide war hero (false, but his obsession) qualifies him for his present public office or anything higher, so why this obsession? |
An ego that is cosmic in scale...and it WILL be fed. |
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shawa
CNO
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Tom Maguire at JOM has posted this article and commentary.
He has a huge readership and the comment thread is growing.
Kerry wants to "set the record straight? Say "BRING IT ON" at: Just One Minute
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“I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. ‘Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.” (Thomas Paine, 1776) |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | His supporters are compiling a dossier that they say will expose every one of the Swift boat group's charges as a lie and put to rest any question about Mr. Kerry's valor in combat. |
Why the need to "compile a dossier" when all he ever had to do was sign the 180 for FULL and COMPLETE release of any and every portion of his Military Records in the National Records Center and make them available to the public. That's what was demanded of Bush yet never of sKerry.
| Quote: | | While it would be easy to see this as part of Mr. Kerry's exploration of another presidential run, his friends say the Swift boat charges struck at an experience so central to his identity that he would want to correct the record even if he were retiring from public life. |
An experience so central to his identity? Was this before or after he bragged about throwing away the very medals he had hanging on his office wall since he decided to claim hero status? |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss |
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| kate wrote: | as if we didn't know, they are reading this board
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kate, that's an understatement.
There's probably a very large team of kerry cadre examining every utterance we make on this board.
Just imaging the dossiers that they have compiled on our membership rolls.
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Swift Boats - Qui Nhon (12/69-4/70), Cat Lo (4/70-5/70), Vung Tau (5/70-12/71) |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Just imaging the dossiers that they have compiled on our membership rolls. |
Unlike sKerry, I will freely sign a 180 and open my records to any of them, provided sKerry does the same and there is sufficient need to read my records.
But, sKerry has to fully release all of his records, first! |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Robert Hahn raises an interesting point over at Redstate...
| Quote: | But I Have a Hat
By: Robert A. Hahn
Redstate
May 27th, 2006
Apparently neither John Kerry nor the New York Times can get over the idea that they were beaten in their race for the White House. How else to explain this remarkable exercise in deja vu-vu, in which Kerry and the Times jointly revisit those thrilling days of yesteryear when the Times and CBS News thought that they were going to make John Kerry the 44th President of the United States.
Alas, that did not happen, and certainly one of the contributing factors was the campaign waged by the Swift Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth to discredit Kerry's claims of serial heroism during his 4-month stay in Vietnam.
We learn now that Kerry's temperament is such that he cannot let this go.
So what he does instead, in a painful-to-read, hour-long paean to his virtue provided by the New York Times, is remind us how incompetently he handled an unanticipated event that occurred on his journey to the White House. To hear Kerry tell it, coming back now with more "evidence" that he was right — and the Swift Vets were wrong — is an important thing for him to do. Maybe it's important to him. Perhaps it is balm for his wounded ego. But he'll have to pardon the rest of us if we don't care anymore. Real presidents do not get second chances to deal with unanticipated events. Any president who came back two years later with his real answer to a crisis would be tossed on the pile with Jimmy Carter.
To those in search of a presidential candidate, Kerry is the guy who fell off his horse when confronted by something he didn't see coming. Who needs that in the White House? Of what use is it now to revisit some he-said/he-said between Kerry and William Schachte over who was on a skimmer in 1968? The real issue is Kerry's performance under load, and what we saw in 2004 is that he dithers during a crisis and makes strategic errors in judgment, leading to defeat. What else do we need to know in order to cross this guy off the list of qualified candidates for president?
Robert A. Hahn served as a contractor to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and did not vote for John Kerry
Redstate |
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mtboone
Founder
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Kansas City, MO.
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Steve Hayes was not a initial signer of our letter to kerry. It is thought that he was a mole sent to spy on our group. That happened during our commercials in DC at our hotel.
For the record, he only got to An Thoi in March, the same month that kerry left. How well would he have know kerry, how many patrols would he have shared with him?
I see this as an attempt and as a attack on SBPT to discredit us before he tries to run again. The Demos would be a fool because he will not have the hate Bush crowd to back him, unless Jeb runs. Also, did you know he served in Vietnam and he has a CIA hat. Most of us inserted and extracted covert troops and I do not know of any other Swiftee that got a gift from them, other than a thanks.
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Terry Boone PCF 90
Qui Nhon 68-69 |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Terry, you're not keeping up. In this latest version of the Cambodia trip that is "seared, seared" into his memory, it is now a team of Navy Seals he delivered to Cambodia that night in 1968 when Nixon was supposed to be President    |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: |
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As we have seen in the new article, it starts off with his claim of;
| Quote: | John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: "Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia."
He moves on to the photographs: his boat leaving the base at Ha Tien, Vietnam; the harbor; the mountains fading frame by frame as the boat heads north; the special operations team the boat was ferrying across the border; the men reading maps and setting off flares.
"They gave me a hat," Mr. Kerry says. "I have the hat to this day," he declares, rising to pull it from his briefcase. "I have the hat." |
Looking back to June 1, 2003, he told the Washington Post and they printed;
| Quote: | A close associate hints: There's a secret compartment in Kerry's briefcase. He carries the black attaché everywhere. Asked about it on several occasions, Kerry brushed it aside. Finally, trapped in an interview, he exhaled and clicked open his case.
"Who told you?" he demanded as he reached inside. "My friends don't know about this."
The hat was a little mildewy. The green camouflage was fading, the seams fraying.
"My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "Given to me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia." |
John Kerry: Hunter, Dreamer, Realist |
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NortonPete
PO2
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: Isn't it well known that Kerry went and staged videos |
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I read numerous times that Kerry had a habit of staging his videos and photographs after the fact. Even to the point of firing live ammo while shooting film.
From the NYTimes article.
>>Mr. Kerry's supporters have also frozen frames from his amateur films of his time in Vietnam and have retrieved letters and military citations for other sailors to support his version of how he won the Silver Star — rebutting the Swift boat group's most explosive charge, that he shot an unarmed teenager who was fleeing his fire.
Another photograph provides evidence for Mr. Kerry's version of how he won the Bronze Star. And original reports pulled from the naval archives contradict the charge that he drafted his own accounts of various incidents — which left room, the Swift boat group had argued, to embellish them.
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Dingbat
Ensign
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Eastern NC (as far east as you can get)
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Lucky Hat? |
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Re: "My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "
Hmmm...wasn't very lucky for him in 2004  (Unless you consider that it was lucky (and scary) that he came as close as he did!)
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Kerry...Hanoi Jane...Murtha: same-same
1/101st ABN Song Be 3/82d ABN Phu Bai. |
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Tanya
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Another interesting read at Democracy Project:
NYT's IS FULL OF KERRY
~snip~
"The New York Times is past being the paper of record and is now again recorder for John Kerry’s crap. In another of the New York Times' pattern of weekend raids, this one ironically if not purposely on Memorial Day weekend when honorable service and sacrifice is remembered, it instead cooperates with John Kerry's pathetic attempt to redeem his record of exaggerations and lies, and his dishonor of those who served honorably."
~snip~
Make no mistake about it, this is a full-bore campaign by Kerry. Aside from again enlisting the New York Times, he may have directly or indirectly enlisted liberal former newsman Marvin Kalb, who together with his daughter is writing a book on these issues."
http://www.democracy-project.com/archives/002565.html |
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becca1223
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 293
Location: Colonial Heights, VA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Captain's Quarters...
| Quote: | Why Kerry Is The Democrat's Nightmare
The New York Times reports that John Kerry wants to re-fight the Swift Boat debate, two years after his serial exaggerations and outright lies about his military service cost him the presidential election. The only possible reason for raising this issue would be to clear the decks for another presidential run in 2008, but like 2004, it shows that Kerry's only strategy for elections is to live in a refashioned past:
Three decades after the Vietnam War and nearly two years after Mr. Kerry's failed presidential bid, most Americans have probably forgotten why it ever mattered whether he went to Cambodia or that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accused him of making it all up, saying he was dishonest and lacked patriotism.
But among those who were on the front lines of the 2004 campaign, the battle over Mr. Kerry's wartime service continues, out of the limelight but in some ways more heatedly — because unlike then, Mr. Kerry has fully engaged in the fight. Only those on Mr. Kerry's side, however, have gathered new evidence to support their case. ...
His supporters are compiling a dossier that they say will expose every one of the Swift boat group's charges as a lie and put to rest any question about Mr. Kerry's valor in combat. While it would be easy to see this as part of Mr. Kerry's exploration of another presidential run, his friends say the Swift boat charges struck at an experience so central to his identity that he would want to correct the record even if he were retiring from public life.
Mr. Kerry portrays himself as a wary participant in his own defense, insisting in the two-hour interview that he does not want to dwell on the accusations or the mistakes of his 2004 campaign. "I'm moving on," he says several times.
Obviously, he's not moving on, and that was the problem with his whole presidential run. It would be inaccurate, to put it mildly, to say that the Swift boat veterans cost Kerry the presidency. What defeated Kerry was his insistence on focusing his campaign on his valor in Viet Nam and the repetition of stories like Christmas in Cambodia that failed the smell test. Instead of offering coherent policies on foreign and domestic issues, but especially about the war in Iraq, Kerry insisted on talking about his service in Viet Nam as opposed to Bush's National Guard service and Cheney's deferments. When the opposition engaged on those topics, seeing as how Kerry didn't want to talk about much else, he seemed shocked that people would question his assertions.
Had Kerry developed a coherent message on policy and left Viet Nam in the past where it belonged, he would never have had to deal with the Swift Boat vets at all. They only organized because Kerry stupidly put their photos on his campaign material and implied that these veterans supported him. When they angrily demanded a retraction, the Kerry campaign refused -- and they set about telling their stories instead.
con't here: Captain's Quarters |
Checkbook in hand...READY, WILLING and ABLE! |
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