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Me#1You#10
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 Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: Zogby: "The End Of Vietnam In American Politics" |
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While Zogby might equate the now implausibility of a Vietnam Veteran ever serving in the oval office, that Vietnam has ended in American politics is, perhaps, wishful thinking.
Sorry to foist this depressing read on the forum...but here it is...American ignorance in ALL its glory...(emphasis mine)
| Quote: | Commentary
The End Of Vietnam In American Politics
John Zogby
Forbes.com
11.07.08
Once again, history is not kind to the soldiers of America's least popular and most divisive war. This election may have closed the book on a Vietnam veteran ever being elected president.
(ed. At this point, a quick observation for Mr. Zogby. Your observation that "history is not kind" to Vietnam Veterans because one of our peers has not been elected to the Presidency suggests that Vietnam Veterans expected or were, perhaps, somehow entitled to some presidential quid pro quo for their service, an absurd and almost insulting proposition. But you DO raise a point. Of the 3 veterans who comprise this universe of "Vietnam Veteran Presidential Losers" (thanks for nothing in noting the class btw), there is a high liklihood that the Vietnam service of 2 of the 3 was calculated to embellish their political resumes...and BOTH served abbreviated tours. While history may not be kind, neither is it blind.)
<snip>
How helpful is it for a would-be president to be a war veteran? Was being a Vietnam veteran a negative for Gore, Kerry or McCain? Or was it less of a positive than serving in other wars? At Zogby International, we tried to get at the answers in a survey of 1,200 likely voters taken during the week prior to Election Day.
A majority (53%) said military service was very or somewhat important in casting their vote for President. This opinion was consistent across age and gender, showing it does resonate with voters. However, responses of Republicans and Democrats were very different. Three-fourths of Republicans said military service was important, compared with 35% of Democrats. That certainly seems to make ideological sense, but leaves one wondering if Republicans felt as strongly when Bush was the candidate.
We asked two questions about World War II, Vietnam, the 1991 Gulf War and the current Iraq War. How important was each to national security? How successful was the military in each?
On both, Vietnam placed last. As expected, 90% said World War II was very or somewhat important to U.S. security, and 93% said our military was very or somewhat successful in that worldwide engagement. For the Gulf War, 73% said it was important to our security, and 78% said the military was successful. For the Iraq War, the same measures were 64% and 54%.
However, for Vietnam, 54% said it was important to U.S. security, and only 38% said our military was successful there.
Americans love a winner. Vietnam is associated with losing and is seen as the most divisive era since the Civil War. That isn't fair to the generation of men and women sent to intervene in a civil war in the jungles of Southeast Asia, but it is their legacy.
When they returned, there were no parades greeting veterans who served on the ground in Vietnam, and there will be no inaugural parades for those among them who wanted to lead the nation.
Forbes.com - cont'd |
"...there will be no inaugural parades for those among them who wanted to lead the nation."
...for 2 of whom I will be ETERNALLY grateful. |
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TEWSPilot
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| In the spirit of "cooperation" and "coming together", I evaluated his article the same way he evaluated our service -- as filtered through the distorted lens of leftist journalists and "historians" and driven into the dirt by "push polsters" like Zogby. Here, John, have a star...just one to a customer, though. |
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LewWaters
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Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Does it escape them that it hasn't ended for those of us who served there and have endured the stuff they have thrown towards us all these years?
Does it escape them that there are millions of Vietnamese refugees in America who it has also not ended?
Even more troublesome is they are poised to repeat the abandonment of Viet Nam with the Iraqis.
Will they one day be talking about that one too has ended, after belitting their sacrifice and costing millions of Iraqi lives?
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TEWSPilot
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
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Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Zogby, next time you happen to be in D.C., stop by here and tell the 58,256 fallen heros that we have come to "The End Of Vietnam In American Politics".
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zinfella
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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Location: Mesa, Az
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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HTH does Zogby mention "Vietnam in Amercian Politics" and never mention the politicians at the time? He sets up questions about whether the military was successful or not, but gives the politicians in charge a pass. 
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Deuce
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| zinfella wrote: | | HTH does Zogby mention "Vietnam in Amercian Politics" and never mention the politicians at the time? He sets up questions about whether the military was successful or not, but gives the politicians in charge a pass. :evil: |
Zogby gives us a clue here: | Quote: | | At Zogby International, we tried to get at the answers |
Methinks if he were totally open and honest, he'd slightly rephrase that as | Quote: | | At Zogby International, we tried to first establish the answers we want, and then and only then we design THE poll to get at those answers. And by the way if we don't get the answers we want, it never sees the light of day. |
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zinfella
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Deuce wrote: | | zinfella wrote: | | HTH does Zogby mention "Vietnam in Amercian Politics" and never mention the politicians at the time? He sets up questions about whether the military was successful or not, but gives the politicians in charge a pass. |
Zogby gives us a clue here: | Quote: | | At Zogby International, we tried to get at the answers |
Methinks if he were totally open and honest, he'd slightly rephrase that as | Quote: | | At Zogby International, we tried to first establish the answers we want, and then and only then we design THE poll to get at those answers. And by the way if we don't get the answers we want, it never sees the light of day. |
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Well, I don't see how anyone could draw any other conclusion, you nailed it!
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | Does it escape them that it hasn't ended for those of us who served there and have endured the stuff they have thrown towards us all these years?
Does it escape them that there are millions of Vietnamese refugees in America who it has also not ended?
Even more troublesome is they are poised to repeat the abandonment of Viet Nam with the Iraqis.
Will they one day be talking about that one too has ended, after belitting their sacrifice and costing millions of Iraqi lives? |
If they abandon the Iraqis, can we set aside a new section of Swiftvets.com for tallies of the numbers of needless deaths-by-massacre in the Mideast that result?
-- FDL
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TEWSPilot
Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| ...and have "Dear Leader's" new "Civilian Corps" performing the burial detail as their first "Service" obligation. |
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streetsweeper95B
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Location: Texas
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Just to be clear Street, your link is to JAMES Zogby, brother of John Zogby who runs the Zogby polling organization.
Nevertheless, brother James' political persuasion is news to me and I appreciate your pointing that out. |
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