SwiftVets.com

[Hueygunner]

President George Bush called for a halt to the Swift Boat Veterans ads that attack presidential hopeful, John Kerry. But the Democrats now say it's too little, too late. Yeah, they know the genie is out of the bottle!

[armymp]

Bush called for a halt to all 527 group adds. Not a halt to a specific add.. You knew that Kerry's group would say it was to little..

[Truegrit]

I hope the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth continues to get the word out, with ads, organized events and the like.

I am saddened that John McCain did not see fit to support the SBVT's effort to get the truth out about Kerry, and to remind Americans of Kerry's betrayal of his fellow Vets in 1971. Ok, people form friendships in the U.S. Senate, but I believe principle is more important -- especially when what is involved is atrocious betrayal, by a man who opportunistically sought to launch his career on the far left, on the backs of his brothers -- by trying to pull them down with an unforgiveable smear.
_________________
Ted Harwood, Ph.D.
Enlisted, U.S. Army ('57-'60)

[magliano]

I often get the impression that Bush is operating under the illusion that he can win this election by playing the role of nice guy. As a former baseball man he should know what Leo Durocher once said. "Nice guys finish last."

[Truegrit]

Magliano,

Your point is well taken. The liberal democratic Left plays hardball, with no quarter given. Where was Kerry when the mud began to fly from George Soro's web site, not to mention all of the far left Bush-hating web sites and organizations.
_________________
Ted Harwood, Ph.D.
Enlisted, U.S. Army ('57-'60)

[LewWaters]

Bush said basically the same thing he has been saying all along, all 527's should stop. Kerry only whines about the one ad that attacked him and says nothing about all the anti-Bush attack ads over the last year or Mooreons Farenheit 9-11.

O'Neill was on Rush when this was announced this morning and he said it doesn't matter what Bush says. SBVT will continue to expose Kerry.

This is not political, it's personal!!
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Clark County Conservative

[mkj1953]

The President didn't call for the Swift Boat Ads to stop. He challenged Kerry to stop all hate ads. Since they don't see anything they produce as hate or an attack ad then you can bet they will not be pulling ads anytime soon. I think we should increase the ads and start concentrating on the items we know he can't deny like Christmas in Cambodia under the orders of Nixon who was not even President yet.
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MKJ

[Truegrit]

Lew,

I'm glad to hear that O'Neill is refusing to back down. I hope the SBVT will continue to press on, especially with Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony, a clear and atrocious betrayal of his fellow Vets. Kerry now says that he was just relaying on testimony given him by others. That is a clear attempt to evade personal responsibility for his conduct in smearing his fellow vets.

I intend to spend time on the street, working to persuade my fellow citizens in a visible way -- to get them into a conversation of Kerry's character, his smear campaign against his fellow Vets in '71 and his smear campaign against the SBVT today. If all of us would contact 10 to 20 people, in person, by email -- we can have an impact. We can keep the effort to bring the truth of Kerry's betrayal in '71 before the Senate alive and going right through the November election.
_________________
Ted Harwood, Ph.D.
Enlisted, U.S. Army ('57-'60)

[cpowkj]

As Margeret Thatcher once said "Don't go wobbley at the knees." I think that is how it goes. The point is the SBVT needs to keep hitting their mark until they crumble. SBVT keep up the good work.

ISC Johnson
_________________
Chief Johnson
Young Vietnam Era Vet, was at Yankee Station on USS Coral Sea (CVA-43) during fall of Siagon, April 1975. Also, participated in rescue of the Merchant Ship Migues from Cambodia, May 1975. Currently, drilling reservist supporting CENTCOM.

[Truegrit]

I believe in the "fighting heart" as my Webb School biology teacher Ray Alf liked to say. Keep fighting. I don't care what David Gergen advises, or John McCain -- I care about the truth of Kerry's betrayal of his fellow Vets after he returned home, while POWs were being hung up by their arms in the Hanoi Hilton until they "confessed" to war crimes.

We cannot let Kerry receive the sacred privilege of leading our young men and women in battle as CinC. We must put our hearts and heads into the effort to prevent his election.
_________________
Ted Harwood, Ph.D.
Enlisted, U.S. Army ('57-'60)

[roughfun]

Remember this fight is about ghosts from Kerrys past. This is not Bushs fight. Now Kerry is fighting on two fronts, a basic no-no. Bush on his front and Swift Vets rolling up his flanks. The anybody but Bush comrades need to counter attack but with what? This is getting more interesting. Semper Fi.

[Paul]

"Kerry only whines about the one ad that attacked him and says nothing about all the anti-Bush attack ads over the last year or Mooreons Farenheit 9-11." {LW}

"Since they don't see anything they produce as hate or an attack ad then you can bet they will not be pulling ads anytime soon." {mkj1953}

These are exactly right. To Senator Kerry and his backers, the only "negative adds" are those that challenge him or his campaign while no matter how absurd or vile anything is that is spewed out from his campaign or any 527s supporting it, it's the truth (only because their "wise men" say so).

I'm glad to see SBFT won't be backing down, which would be a huge mistake for numerous reaons, and agree with mkj1953:

"I think we should increase the ads and start concentrating on the items we know he can't deny like Christmas in Cambodia under the orders of Nixon who was not even President yet."

Personally, since Senator Kerry made his service in Vietnam the center piece of his claim of possessing combat leadership experience that demonstrates him as fit to lead as Commander in Chief, then his leaving only 4 months into the 12 month tour that he volunteered for should be underscored as well. Most especially by contrasting it with the concrete examples of those men who served their tours, particularly among the PBR and Riverine Assault Forces and not only PCFs after they started operating on the rivers, who were also awarded multiple Purple Hearts, some of which they were hospitalized for, were aware of the option to request transfer, but who declined the option and completed their tours, often with more combat would awards than needed to request transfer.

It's a valid contrast with positive examples of navy brown water veterans, enlisted and officers, and demonstrates that Kerry's service, even if legalistically valid, is anything but impressive, particularly in the matter of "qualifying" him as Commander In Chief.
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Paul

[Paul]

“PBR enlisted were entitled to two war wounds before the end of their one-year tour. Officers had to get three Purple Hearts before they could go home early. I thought that policy was correct. The enlisted river rats had to endure a lot more time on the river than officers. Oftentimes PBR sailors’ little nicks due to the fiberglass or tiny aluminum shards never got documented. Naturally, most of the unrecorded wounds were suffered on boats entirely manned by enlisted, without an officer around. It was a mark of honor for some river rats to pass off superficial wounds as nonevents. Some staff puke from Saigon or Binh Thuy might claim a Purple Heart if he bruised himself while the gunners on his boat suppressed an enemy sniper, but not a true river rat. . Splinters in the butt, a bullet crease of the leg, burns on the hand from changing a hot machine gun barrel were all war wounds in my book if the guys are actively engaged with the enemy when injured. Individuals still had the option of completing their tours no matter how many little stars were pinned to their Purple Hearts. Nobody wanted a whiner around if he claimed his tour was over because he had a couple of Band-Aid wounds. . . . Briggs was not a whiner. That was it. He would continue to take his chances on the river. Briggs was a career Navy man. A second Purple Heart on his record would add to his retirement points. He just wanted to make sure his little wound was recorded. . . Ron Wolin got the second star on his, and GM2 Briggs got his third award and a sure fire early ticket back to the states. Briggs again declined the option. He left Vietnam on time with three Purple Hearts, just as Ron Wolin did in August. Both were real stand-up guys.”

--Wynn Goldsmith, Lt, USN Ret, Papa Bravo Romeo, Ballantine, 2001, pp. 219-220 & 230

This is describing service on PBRs rather than PCFs, but apparently the same policy, at least when the PCFs also began working on the rivers in ‘69, applied to them.

This is only a small excerpt from Goldsmith's account. The wound award of Second Class Gunner’s Mate Briggs was after a first wound award that had left him hospitalized for a time before he returned to duty. I don't know what the details of his third wound award were.

Ron Wolin mentioned here was a navy Lieutenant in command of RivDiv 535 boats. His tour of service, '67 to '68 I believe, included the period during the TET Offensive when these boats area of operations included the Ben Tre river and the defense of Ben Tre the morning that the offensive was launched. It was PBRs from the 535th and 531st that prevented the fall of Ben Tre, and held the line until elements of the 9th Infantry Div arrived.

Even if technically valid, obviously there’s nothing in Senator Kerry’s taking advantage of the transfer option with three wounds awards that even if all were valid, none of which caused any lost time or serious medical treatment.

Even if all awards were unquestioned, which they obviously aren't, then LtJg Kerry’s action using them to take advantage of the option so as to leave after only 4 months of the 12 month tour that he (like all in the brown water navy) had Volunteered for is at best mediocre and nothing to especially boast about. Certainly nothing to make the center piece of a claim of combat experience and demonstrated leadership traits qualifying him as Commander in Chief.

Actually, let's be honest, Kerry doesn't even earn the title of being a "stand up guy" as do Lt Wolin and Second Class Gunner's Mate Briggs here.

Why in the world such as this isn't being hammered against Kerry's own claim which requires it's wordy legalistic explanation / justification, and particular concrete examples of honorable men like these not shown in contrast, I really don't understand. Let the weasels try to claim such as these to be "negative" adds. Even if they do, most normal human beings would recognize it's not.

Senator Dole has certainly underscored some of this with his recent statements about Senator Kerry's service. This would be a good time to follow up with contrasts like this.
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Paul

[Paul]

"The anybody but Bush comrades need to counter attack but with what? This is getting more interesting." {RF}

To an extent it is. President Bush's "offensive" isn't exactly an overwhelming one. Frankly, quite weak.

He's given conservatives next to nothing to defend him with -- hence the numerous projections from the pro-Bush editorialists of what he'll do in the next four years, none of which he even attempted in the first.

The strongest arguments that one could make on behalf of this president would be to counter the false claims by the democrats that he's an ultra conservative or that he has been slashing social programs. But at this point in time, I don't expect to see the Republicans bragging about the bi-lateral support of Ted Kennedy's No Child Left Behind Act (that in more plain speaking days would have been more accurately titled the Federal Education Act) that the President was responsible for leading the Republican House and Senate in supporting and passing, thereby abandoning the education promise in the Republican "Contract with America" that they formulated only about five years earlier. They were sure boasting about his "leadership" skills for having done so only a few years ago.

And this is only the start of a long list, including numerous items related to defense as well, and also to the so-called GWAT and Iraq. I don't believe his nephews recent public comments in Mexico about our members of the Border Service being armed will help much with much of his base either; especially those of us already disgusted with his amnesty program for illegal immigrants proposal that includes the proposal for, effectively, a foreign job line, that supposedly really isn't an "amnesty" program.

This President's biggest problems are the same as his father's were, namely from his own base that like his father he's either completely abandoned over the course of the past four years or only tried to placate many in with lip service and slogans.

Let's just hope that if George Bush is re-elected that he reforms his administration and doesn't continue as he has.

If he doesn't, then my guess is that the Republicans will further splinter and Third Parties gain more headway and that Bush Jr. will be responsible for Hilary in '08 in the same way that his daddy was responsible for Bill in '92.

Anyway, I'd be fairly counted as anybody but Kerry. But obviously disgusted at George Bush. On too many important issues there's no substantial difference between President Bush and Senator Kerry. Senator Kerry's voting record and this administrations support of much of what he's voted for demonstrates it. I still say that given that either George Bush or John Kerry will most likely win, then this is a lose-lose Presidential election year for the nation.
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Paul

[d19thdoc]

Paul wrote: