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Something I have reservations about saying/Max Cleland
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OldAbe
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

In 2003, President Bush appointed Cleland to a seat on the Board of Directors of the Export/Import Bank, a nice, cushy job with an annual salary of $136,000.

I guess this is the thanks the President gets.


Rich Lowry at NRO has posted the details here: http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200408251621.asp

Max has placed himself in the same spot that his pal John has. He can't have it both ways either. I'll respect any veteran until they become unrespectable. Kerry's past that point. (He passed in it '71.) Max is rapidly closing in on it.

Max certainly doesn't have to hold his tongue out of deferrence to the president for his appointment but if he feels that the president is such a vile person he should have the decency to resign his position and follow his new leader, Hanoi John, to defeat.

- OldAbe
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BrianC
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, OldAbe for the link - Rich Lowry's column is where I'd read that earlier, but couldn't find the link to it.

Great follow up.
(And I love the chart provided by Lowry)!
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Integrity
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems Cleland is just convenient for Kerry's MO.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005526
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cedarford
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAX AWOL FROM HIS JOB????

It is a problem - Max getting 136,000 from the taxpayer to do an important job of high responsibility, but going off to campaign virtually full time for Kerry since his appointment as a Director on the Board of the Export - Import Bank. IMO, Cleland is AWOL from a job where he is supposed to be serving America's vital interests......but any agitation to boot Max out has to contend with the "out to hurt poor, suffering Max" charges. You're Sooooo Mean!! He's almost broke, he gave 3 limbs for his country, he was run out of the Senate job his wounds and plucky spirit entitled him to....yadayada.

The Board of Directors of the Bank meets weekly to discuss approval or disapproval of very high stakes direct loans or grants or credit guarantees the US taxpayer takes on for backing commercial banks underwriting trade/export loans. At a typical Thursday meeting, they get 4-6 packages where issues go well outside the loans. Is the taxpayer money going out where it will only amount to corporate welfare for a well-connected in DC company, or does it in fact have promise to promote exports and create US jobs? Is the state loan being approved actually going to help a state attract foreign investors, or is it in effect welfare money for a state bureacracy to suck up? Every week, the Board of Directors votes on how over 100 million in US taxpayer funds will be disbursed. Decisions are made every week that can affect 10's of thousands of jobs.

In other nations that take trade seriously, they put their top people in and work this job full time. Max's counterparts in Japan's MITI, China's Peoples Ministery of Trade, and the EU International Trade consortium are drawn from the best export company executives, banking gurus, and economist PhD degreed candidates in their countries. They work 70-90 hour weeks, travel abroad to push exports and work out deals, spend days going through the merits of key loan packages - and get paid far less than Max. Max has a Masters in History and attended a few Senate Commerce Committee hearings. That's it for his quals.

Max's job is a cushy Presidential patronage job where the Dems control half the appointments, the Reps the other half , though...and the Bank's bylaws make it easy for a member to miss meetings - the quorum is a simple majority, and Max can phone in during a meeting from Kerry's Lear Jet or a hotel in Santa Fe on a campaign stop - and be credited with "attending by phone". The Export-Import Bank has refused reporter's inquiries on Max's attendence or 2 other "patronage" Directors. I suppose the only way that will change is if some mainstream reporter makes it a national question that Max's political activities are a clear conflict of interest with his national duty to faithfully discharge his responsibilities as a key Federal officeholder making decisions on where 15 billion in Federal funds gets disbursed, with thousands of American jobs possibly resting on the wisdom of Max's decisions and the depth of his work and research into each loan.

His departure won't happen due to Max's sense of shame, or conclusion that he must resign his sinecure for the good of the country. Cleland has never had a private job in his life, and considers high level appointments or a Seat in the Senate his due for all he gave this country.

I'd feel better if they just paid Max the 136,000 his "Good Old Boys Network connection" entitles him to, told him to just stay away from the Bank, and then hire a serious Director who actually works for his pay. Blowing 136K is a pittance compared to Max squandering 30 million in a single vote where he takes a 5-minute Board Vote call during a Band of Brothers luncheon banquet on whether or not a Turkish cement company he never heard of before his "hold the ice cream, I got to vote" phone call - should get a 30 million Uncle Sam cash infusion to buy a limestone crush, bake, powder plant that a US company Max doesn't know that is hugely profitable, outsourcing to China, whose lawyers set up the deal, will sell 4 million in Made in China assembled in the USA parts to....

BTW - This sort of Board crony stuff happened in private industry a lot before Banks, insurers, pension funds, and creditors started demanding companies weed out the brother-in-law, famous person "deadwood". It persists in the Federal government with little accountibility.
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rlmorel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is shameful how the Democrats are using Max Cleland, and I also think it is sad how he is allowing himself to be used. Max Cleland was injured in a tragic accident, and even if he had been drinking a few beers, that does not make it any less tragic or sad than the same injuries occuring in active combat. We are grateful for his service.

That said, honorable service does not buy a lifetime pass of respect, and what I am about to say applies even more so to John Kerry, so I will address it towards him.

Benedict Arnold was a patriot. He served his country courageously and valiantly. But he does not occupy the hallowed positions held by other men who we regard as heroes in our illustrious military history. And it is because of his actions subsequent to his honorable service that makes his name synonymous with moral corruption in same way the names Judas and Quisling are.

Now, please, I am not suggesting Max Cleland is a Benedict Arnold, far from it. But for he and the Democratic leadership to paint any attacks on his senatorial record as an attack on his patriotism is just plain despicable.

And then you have John Kerry, who may have served honorably in some fashion, but destroyed his membership in the "Band of Brothers" as a result of his actions after he left Vietnam. I view his actions as treasonous.

But what galls me, and causes such anger in me, is his complete and utter hypocrisy in his exploitation of his military service. Then I look at the jacket of his book "The New Soldier", and my blood boils. The mockery of the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima. Of all places, Iwo Jima. A place where so many young men, many who never lived long enough to drive a car or make love even once, gave their lives. And Kerry mocked them. Is it any wonder some veterans stood and turned their backs on him as he spoke?

So, no. Honorable service is not a lifetime pass to any criticism or scrutiny. Not for Benedict Arnold. Not for Max Cleland. Not for anyone. And especially, not for John Kerry.
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Herb
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wing Wiper wrote:
I believe Cleland stated at one point "it could have been my own grenade", but later another vet came forward and admitted it had been his, that got pulled off his web gear. Cleland saw it, bent to pick it up (I don't think he realized it was live, maybe he did) and got blown up. From what I remember, it was while he was with troops departing from a chopper onto an LZ, no enemy fire. It was an accident, same as if the chopper had crashed coming into the LZ and he had lost his limbs. It could have happened to anybody, he's no more a hero than a guy who walked into a prop or stepped on a mine. Sorry to put it that way, but look at the facts. Please correct me if I got any of the "facts" wrong about him.


Rather than attack Cleland, try this (if Cleland did not receive a PH for his triple amputation):

Kerry: three bandaids, three PHs (2 without hostile fire)
Cleland: lost three limbs and did NOT receive a PH (not hostile fire)

Mr. Kerry are you more deserving of a PH than Max Cleland who lost LIMBS?

(Ok, it's dirty, I am just thinking out...)
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zinfella
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Herb"]
Wing Wiper wrote:
Mr. Kerry are you more deserving of a PH than Max Cleland who lost LIMBS?

(Ok, it's dirty, I am just thinking out...)


That kind of politically incorrect stuff is what makes the swiftees job hard. And don't think that many don't agree with you, including myself, but when you're dealing with the lefties, that stuff will get your message ignored. Take a page from John O'Neill, stay cool, and rebut their arguments.

Do I hate political correctness? More than anyone knows, but if you want to be a player, it's not to be disregarded. Smile
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Herb
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="zinfella"]
Herb wrote:
Wing Wiper wrote:
Mr. Kerry are you more deserving of a PH than Max Cleland who lost LIMBS?

(Ok, it's dirty, I am just thinking out...)


That kind of politically incorrect stuff is what makes the swiftees job hard. And don't think that many don't agree with you, including myself, but when you're dealing with the lefties, that stuff will get your message ignored. Take a page from John O'Neill, stay cool, and rebut their arguments.

Do I hate political correctness? More than anyone knows, but if you want to be a player, it's not to be disregarded. Smile



You are right, but if a reporter asked it....
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Last edited by Herb on Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mcb58
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max was too liberal for Georgia, that's why he lost his Senate seat.

The tradgey here is that kerry is using Cleland like a puppet to pit veteran against veteran, much the same as when he testified befor Congress.

kerry is a master at using people against people to serve his purpose and all intended to realize his dream, the second JFK from Mass.
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zinfella
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herb wrote:

You are right, but it a reporter asked it....


Hey, I'm 100% with you guys here, maybe I'm over cautious, but the lefties can twist and spin nearly anything said. Just look at how they are parsing O'Neill's Cambodia remark. Problem is a lot of folks believe that crap, and that effects the effectiveness of the message. On the other hand, maybe I'm being an old woman, I just want F-ing to get his. Smile
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BrianC
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited by Moderator - Please keep the rhetoric below the flash point
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NavyBrat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cedarford-

Great post! An eye-opener and educational.
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Dimsdale
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel as sorry for Cleland as I do Christopher Reeves, but it ends there.

What happened to him in Vietnam did not affect his mind, so he should be treated as anyone else in regards to opinions, voting records etc. I have worked with diabled people of all levels and varieties of disability, mental and physical, and know that the thing they want most is to be treated as much like anyone else as possible.

The most shameful thing is the Dems and Kerry using him as some sort of "diabled vet shield" if you will. The "disabled" and the "vet" are not really related, other than the fact that the accident happened in Vietnam, as the accident was an accident, not the result of enemy attack.
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Tom Poole
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Something... Reply with quote

It kind of reminds me of Martin Sheen in the movie Dead Zone.
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Fox
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleland should be mad a Kerry. His self inflicted wounds were far more serious than Kerry's yet he did not get a Purple Heart for them.
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