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lunr99 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:00 am Post subject: Need help responding with duty status |
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It's me again, and I was trying to prove that Kerry went against the UCMJ rules. I post on a local message board here in Northeast Wi. and I'm running into some "technical problems."
I linked to a document which shows Kerry signed an agreement with the Navy.
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/offcandagr.pdf
I am not up to par on the "active and inactive" status and what's entailed.
Below is the response I got.
You ignored what I said, or you do not understand. When he was put in inactive duty status. It means inactive, those requirements only apply to active reserve only! If he was assigned to an active reserve unit yes then he would be required to drill with that unit. Inactive duty means he does no active duty. Drill is active duty status. Reserves get paid only while on drill status, or called to active duty. You do not do drill on inactive duty. You do not get paid. You are not under the UCMJ. Most likely, he got that status due to the three Purple Hearts,and two tours of Vietnam. The Navy would not activate him, to go back to Vietnam. He was basicly out of service under that status. But subject to recall to active duty. The UCMJ would only apply when he went on active duty. The Navy seems to have decided that he was finished with them. they kept him in this status until they could put him into inactive reserve. that does happen. This can be done to Officers that they don't want to activate for one reason or another, but don't want to hurt their record either. Only if he was assigned to an active reserve unit, would the terms of service apply. They don't apply when you are declared inactive. He got out of it. He did not have to do it. That is why no records of drill. Don't know if he worked it or the Navy, but he was out of service at that time for all intent and purposes. The truth is I served I know the rules. 20 years of Honorable service, means I am not ignorant of military matters, thank you. I have been polite to you. I am reconsidering that. You decided to question my intelligence, and not ask me any questions on how I knew, you just called me ignorant. I am not always right, no one is. I do have the background to be right in this one. You are the one, who needs to do more research that agreement is not iron cast, there are ways out of it. Kerry got out of it, legally. the Navy put him in inactive status.
Orginal post stated Kerry was put on inactive duty, where the hell do you get a requirement for drill in that status. Inactive duty status is inactive. No drill requirement. No assign unit. What unit do you say he was assigned to. In order to have that reqirement. He must be assigned as active reserve to a unit. Tell me the unit they assigned him to. I was inactive reserve. I had no reqirement to drill, or was assgned to any unit. Inactive duty means, no active duty. Inactive reserve means no active duty, so no drill. the original contact is not proof, If he was put in inactive duty, those requirements do not apply. that would be why no drill records.
Is there any response to this? Was Kerry active or inactive duty when he made his speech in 1971?
See, I think the confusion here is, if he was "inactive," then I guess he's not under the UCMJ?
someone please enlighten me.
Thanks ever so much. _________________ If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to
make sure it's still there. - Will Rogers |
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Moving shortly to R&R
Thanks |
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republicanveteran Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 333 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Officers are considered still part of the military until their entire service expires, active or inactive. They are not discharged until the military produces a DD214. Hope this helps
I think his official discharge was in 1978... |
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lunr99 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:08 am Post subject: |
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thank you so much for your answer. It is to the point.
Hey moderator, No one goes over to the R and R - lol
I wasn't sure where to post this though. Thought it would generate a faster response, which it did. sorry _________________ If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to
make sure it's still there. - Will Rogers |
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Guammie Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 20
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:20 am Post subject: |
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http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3778
There is an important distinction between being in the Naval Reserves on inactive duty and being in the Standby Reserves on inactive duty. Standby Reserve status would permit a person to argue that he was a civilian for all intents and purposes. A person in the Naval Reserves is still considered in the Navy; inactive duty means that the individual or the unit to which that individual has been assigned has not been called up for active duty. Again, note the similarity: John Kerry, when he entered the Navy on February 18, 1966, entered the Naval Reserves on inactive duty. He did not commence active duty until August 19, 1966.
Quote: |
As a member of the Naval Reserves, Kerry would have held a Naval Reserve identification card; he would have received Navy pay; and he would have had continuing, though minimal, obligations to report to official Navy requests for training and to respond to any inquiries advanced to him. In 1971, John Kerry was still in the ven though his status was Naval Reserves, inactive duty.
snip
What is clear from the record is that Kerry lied or otherwise misrepresented his continued service in the Naval Reserves so as to give the impression that he was not affiliated in any way with the U.S. military when he engaged in his radical protest activities. The truth is that Kerry was still in the military when he protested against his own brothers in arms. This raises the additional concern that Kerry's antiwar activities may well have been in direct violation of the obligations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which prohibit him from making adverse charges against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially in time of war |
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air_vet PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:49 am Post subject: |
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republicanveteran wrote: | Officers are considered still part of the military until their entire service expires, active or inactive. They are not discharged until the military produces a DD214. |
Enlisted got a DD 214 at the completion of each enlistment but since officers don't have "enlistments" his DD 214 should have been issued when he was released from active duty. He would have needed that for things like GI Bill entitlements. |
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lunr99 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:58 am Post subject: |
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so by your post air-vet, you're telling me that once Kerry was put on inactive duty - he would receive his DD214.
Then this would mean that he no longer is under the UCMJ?
Because he has been discharged.
Which means that when he testified in 71, he was no longer obligated to the Navy, correct? _________________ If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to
make sure it's still there. - Will Rogers |
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air_vet PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: Candidate Kerry's DD 214s |
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OK, I just reread candidate Kerry's DD 214s. There are 2. The first, issued 15 Dec 66 was when he completed OCS (which is done in paygrade E-5). The second, was dated 3 Feb 70 when he was leaving EAD. This is as I would have expected to see.
The INTERESTING thing is, the Terminal Date of Reserve Obligation on the 2nd DD 214 is 17 Feb 72. Again, this makes sense - it's 6 years after he entered the reserve (in enlisted status).
What I DON'T understand, is why his honorable discharge wasn't issued until 16 Feb 78/13 Jul 78 - SIX years after his reserve obligation had expired. Why was it extended? I can't believe that VVAW member Kerry would have asked to stay in the Reserve for an extra six years.
Somethings just don't add up right about his reserve service - but we won't know what's wrong if he doesn't sign a Form 180.
Last edited by air_vet on Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lunr99 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:14 am Post subject: |
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maybe longer is better? LOL
I don't know, but thank you for taking the time out to explain some things to me. It can get rather confusing (and still is at time) trying to understand all this status stuff. When, where, who and what.
I also hope that Kerry will release all his records and it will finally answer all questions. _________________ If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to
make sure it's still there. - Will Rogers |
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air_vet PO2
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:17 am Post subject: |
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lunr99 wrote: | so by your post air-vet, you're telling me that once Kerry was put on inactive duty - he would receive his DD214. |
Correct - see my second message.
lunr99 wrote: | Then this would mean that he no longer is under the UCMJ? Because he has been discharged. |
I'm NOT a lawyer (military or otherwise) so I can't comment on that issue.
lunr99 wrote: | Which means that when he testified in 71, he was no longer obligated to the Navy, correct? |
He could still have been called back to active duty. During the first part of that period (up to 16 Aug 72) he was in the Ready Reserve and could have been called-up to active duty by order of the president. During the second part he was in Standby Reserve - Inactive status and could only have been called to active duty by act of congress. |
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PO2 Ensign
Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Posts: 67 Location: TX USA
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Need help responding with duty status |
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lunr99 wrote: | It's me again, and I was trying to prove that Kerry went against the UCMJ rules. I post on a local message board here in Northeast Wi. and I'm running into some "technical problems."
Is there any response to this? Was Kerry active or inactive duty when he made his speech in 1971?
See, I think the confusion here is, if he was "inactive," then I guess he's not under the UCMJ?
someone please enlighten me.
Thanks ever so much. |
The subject of active duty vs. active reserve vs. inactive duty is immaterial in the matter of a commissioned officer. A commission in the US Military is a lifetime proposition or until either the service revokes the commission or the officer chooses to resign their comission. When a commissioned officer enters onto active duty, the ID card is issued with an end date of Indef (indefinate). The ID card changes to the red of the reserves but still retains the indef expiration. Short answer is: Once a person is commissioned in the US Military, they remain subject to the UCMJ until one of the following happens, 1. the officer dies. 2. the officer resigns his/her commission, 3. the Military revokes the commission. At any time a commissioned officer needs to be tried for military crimes, the CIC can call them back to active duty to stand trial for the misconduct.
I know, I are one. _________________ Duty. Honor. Country.
To me, more than just words. |
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lunr99 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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so let me get this straight...LOL
If Kerry wasn't transferred to "Inactive Reserve" till July 1st 1972,
that would mean that he was on "Ready Reserves." Right?
Which would mean he could be called to duty during that time? correct?
I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I am really learning quite a lot here.
More than I could ever imagine.
Thanks,
Michelle _________________ If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to
make sure it's still there. - Will Rogers |
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scraper3 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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lunr99
Read Kerry's release from active duty letter.
Item #6 states: " release from active duty does not terminate your status as a member of the U.S. Naval Reserve."
Obviously he was subject to UCMJ, plus he had a security clearance.
I guess no one had the stomach to go after this guy, except John O'neill of course. |
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