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USAF66-70
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
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 Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: McCain--Kerrys protest/medal throwing is legit debate subj |
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From Bloomberg, Aug 29: McCain, 68, of Arizona, said on the CBS News program ``Face the Nation,'' that he disagreed with Kerry throwing his ribbons from his medals on the steps of the U.S. Capitol when he returned from the war…. “Every American is entitled to protest,'' McCain said. “Whether he did that appropriately'' is a legitimate subject for debate, he said…. Kerry's service in combat shouldn't be questioned, McCain said. ``I know for a fact that when combat takes place, it's the most confusing and controversial situation,'' he said. ``Nobody ever remembers exactly what happens in combat.''
Think I’m inclined to agree with much of what McCain said. However, since Kerry has made such a big deal boasting of his medals (intimating Bush has none), along with the shrapnel still in his leg, I think that means that Kerry himself has made his service in combat a “legitimate subject for debate.” Additionally, since it appears that Kerry may actually NOT have been in “combat” for several of his medals, then clearly those are “legitimate subjects for debate.”
Well, glad we have that cleared up. God bless John McCain. (I guess everyone’s heard rumor that Chaney’s gonna resign & McCain’s gonna be VP … I like it.)
USAF 66-70 |
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stylin19
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hey John...
What the heck DID Sen. Kerry throw ?
his medals ?,
somone elses medals?
his ribbons ?
oh wait....they're encased in glass in his office
I'm so confused.
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U.S.M.C. - 1969-1971
RVN- 1970-1971 |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:36 pm Post subject: McCain... |
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| Quote: | | Kerry's service in combat shouldn't be questioned |
Why not? Flipper John lied about his first PH. He lied about the sampan incident. He lied about Christmas in Cambodia. He lied about the Rassmann scandal. I believe he lied or exaggeraged all other things he said. I'd say he's fair game in all matters before, during and after THE war. In this case, everything is suspect until proven beyond a reasonable doubt one way or the other. God bless McCain even if he is wrong. Obviously, I become angrier every day. I already was outraged but MSM bias is criminally responsible for covering these crimes. Further, effete power figures excessively influence what the Constitution intended as our way of determining the truth.
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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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There are some major advantages to focusing on the testimony/medal issue and one major disadvantage....
Advantages:
- The facts are not in dispute in regard to his testimony. Recordings and transcript are available.
- Kerry's views as expressed in the testimony and The New Soldier as well as other statements place him well outside the mainstream.
- The facts will mobilize the greatest number of voters available to vote against Kerry (more so than PH, SS, BS issues).
- This is the most emotional issue we have available.
- His changing story regarding the throwing of the medals makes this an integrity, consistancy, opportunism and honor issue. The integrity issue is the aspect Kerry needs to fear most.
- Even a number of Kerry partisans have acknowledged that this issue is fair game and the one they fear most.
- SBVT will not take grief from McCain over raising this issue.
Here is the disadvantage to this issue: Unlike the issues raised in the first and third ads, they are not really news. The story is not as likely to "get legs" (and to this point, it has not been the real focus).
One possibility is that others may decide this is an issue as well -- something that would make it more newsworthy.
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kerry's service in combat shouldn't be questioned |
Why is that, Senator McCain, didn't John Kerry question the honorable service of over 2.5 million members of the military, publicly, in 1971?
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Clark County Conservative |
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Theresa Alwood
Rear Admiral
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 631
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I am not too happy with John McCain and would not like him as a VP. I lost all respect for Sanator McCain when he came out and attacked the swiftvets the way he did. I too offense to him trying to quiet the swiftvets yet not ONCE did I hear him (or John Kerry) denounce moveon.org or any of the other 527 who are outspending the republican 527's by 87% - or Michael Moore's propaganda movie.
I do not think Cheney is going to step-down. I would really like to see Cheney step down and Guiliani get the VP spot! What a ticket that would make!
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Born to raise a little hell! |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Did anyone else hear Sean Hannity this past Thursday? He was doing his man on the street segment and asked one young man about the candidates. He said he was going to vote for the guy running against Bush, Kearney. Hannity asked him some about Jim Kearney and then asked how much he knew about the Kearney's VP choice, Stu Ped. Whoever it was acted as if he knew all about Mr. Stu Ped, mentioning accomplishments and all. It was about 3 people later that finally caught on just who Mr. Stu Ped really was, LOL.
What scares me, is these people also have a right to vote. To me, such an ill-informed vote is more dangerous than no vote at all.
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Clark County Conservative |
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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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The Balloon Artist
PO3
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 262
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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BTW didn't AWC (John Kerry) call McCain along with 2.5 million troops War criminals?
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What about John Kerry's four months in Vietnam qualify him to be president?
Al Gore was there for five. |
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forgivenjojo
Former Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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George W. Bush will never ask John McCain to be V.P.
Thank God for that! |
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napnip
Ensign
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ya know, that's funny, but it's sad at the same time.
I don't know whether to put a "LOL" smiley here, or a "sad" smiley.
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WalterW
Ensign
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 74
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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When discussing McCain, one must always remember the Keating Five.
| Quote: | Remember the Keating Five?
McCain’s own standards would have hung him.
April 5, 2001 9:15 a.m.
For too long, McCain has been given a free pass by the media, which promotes campaign-finance reform to silence other voices, and by his Republican colleagues, who are concerned about alienating McCain given the GOP's tenuous majority in the Senate.
In John McCain's America, any politician who accepts a large contribution or gift from a donor, and then takes steps consistent with the donor's interests — even though there is no legal quid pro quo — is corrupt. Well, then, by his own standard, McCain is corrupt.
McCain was one of the so-called "Keating Five" senators. He was investigated by the Senate Select Committee on Ethics in 1991 regarding the acceptance of favors from Lincoln Savings & Loan Association (Lincoln) and its owner, Charles H. Keating, Jr. Simply put, the issue was whether McCain and the other senators used their official positions to attempt to pressure Federal Home Loan Bank Board officials to go easy on the troubled institution. Eventually Lincoln went bust, costing depositors and taxpayers millions.
In its final report (November 20, 1991), here is what the Senate Select Committee on Ethics concluded about McCain's conduct:
"Mr. Keating, his associates, and his friends contributed $56,000 for Senator McCain's two House races in 1982 and 1984, and $54,000 for his 1986 Senate race. Mr. Keating also provided his corporate plane and/or arranged for payment for the use of commercial or private aircraft on several occasions for travel by Senator McCain and his family, for which Senator McCain ultimately provided reimbursement when called upon to do so. Mr. Keating also allowed Senator McCain and his family to vacation with Mr. Keating and his family, at a home provided by Mr. Keating in the Bahamas, in each of the calendar years 1983 through 1986.
"…[F]rom 1984 to 1987, Senator McCain took actions on Mr. Keating's behalf or at his request. The Committee finds that Senator McCain had a basis for each of these actions independent of the contributions and benefits he received from Mr. Keating, his associates and friends.
"Based on the evidence available to it, the Committee has given consideration to Senator McCain's actions on behalf of Lincoln. The Committee concludes that, given the personal benefits and campaign contributions he had received from Mr. Keating, Senator McCain exercised poor judgment in intervening with the regulators without first inquiring as to the Bank Board's position in the case in a more routine manner. The Committee concludes that Senator McCain's actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him. The Committee finds that Senator McCain took no further action after the April 9, 1987 meeting when he learned of a criminal referral.
"The Committee reaffirms its prior decision that it does not have jurisdiction to determine the issues of disclosure or reimbursement pertaining to flights provided by American Continental Corporation while Senator McCain was a Member of the House of Representatives. The Committee did consider the effect of such on his state of mind and judgment in taking steps to assist Lincoln.
"Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate; therefore, the Committee concludes that no further action is warranted with respect to Senator McCain on the matters investigated during the preliminary inquiry."
McCain was the only Republican implicated in the Keating Five scandal, yet today he lectures his party and his president about "the corrupting influence" of money in politics. He rails against the so-called "wealthy special interests" and their ability to buy access to elected officials, yet this is precisely what the Keating Five scandal was all about. And, of course, under McCain's current standard, a politician who takes a principled position that may benefit a donor is corrupt, even if no law has been violated.
The John McCain of old should be thankful that his political fate wasn't determined by John McCain the reformer. |
Charles Keating was the president of the Lincoln Savings and Loan, which when it failed (1989) took around billion dollars worth of investors' money with it.
Edwin J. Gray, the head of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, had been approached by three senators to discontinue the investigation of the Lincoln S&L. It turned out that those senators had been given combined donations of millions of dollars to their campaign funds from the Lincoln S&L.
The Senate ethics committee concentrated on the five senators involved: Alan Cranston (D, CA); Dennis DeConcini (D, AZ); John Glenn (D, OH); John McCain (R, AZ); and Donald Riegle (D, MI).
Note that there were four Democrats and just one Republican in the list. |
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Bob Chamberlain
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:37 pm Post subject: Pathetic ignorance |
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| It's more than sad, it's frightening. These kids were out there participating in a protest march without a clue as to why they are there. They seem to have no better understanding of reality than those poor kids some radical Mullah convinces to strap on a few kilos of explosive and blow up a few infidels for Allah. God help us all when such ignorance becomes the dominant trait of our electorate. Or has it already?? |
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markasass
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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It's always bothered me that Senator McCain is held up as some paragon of integrity. I'm old enough to clearly remember the "Keating Five" scandal, and believe all five senators got away with being involved with "influence peddling".
Related to this, I believe the fact Senator McCain didn't INSTANTANEOUSLY speak out against the liberal 527s, a year ago, speaks volumes as to his integrity and credibility. MoveOn and ACT, along with the multimillion dollar donations from a few individuals like George Soros and Peter Lewis (boycott Progressive Insurance, which Lewis owns), certainly violated the spirit, if not the letter, of McCain-Feingold, which stunk as a law in the first place, IMHO.
Finally, it also seems like Senator McCain is admitting he realizes Kerry IS lying about at least two of his Purple Hearts, his Christmas in Cambodia, and his fleeing the scene in "the Bronze Star incident" by stating, "...when combat takes place, it's the most confusing and controversial situation" and "Nobody ever remembers exactly what happens in combat". Even when it's been "seared" into one's memory, John? Quit making excuses.
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Kerry threw the medals over the fence? So what! He didn't have to bleed for them. Betcha he went back later that night and collected all of the tossed medals. Wow, with all the medals the vets threw away he could have a collection for his offfices and all seven of his homes.
See, he's not really that reckless.
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