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d19thdoc · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: Was Kerry AWOL From the Reserves?

There has been a bit of discussion here about Kerry's status in the Navy Reserve after active duty in Vietnam. Has anyone discovered whether he had an obligation to report which he shirked? If so, this needs to be nailed down. Because not only would he have been AWOL, he would have been engaged in subversive activities while being AWOL. The irony of the Dem's attacks on Bush in a similar vein would have to generate some serious reaction.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

Mark · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:47 am Post subject:

I think this a potentially target rich environment which could be the coup de grace.
My memory of those days is that OCS grads were commissioned Ensigns, USNR with obligations of 3 years ACDU followed by several years of Ready Reserve, entailing drills a weekend/month and 2 weeks/year.
If this is correct Kerry either never reported for his obligations as a drilling reservist or he was given special dispensation (why/how?). Perhaps intense inquiry into this question would reveal why years later his release from Active Duty appears to have been changed to "transferred to the Navy Reserve INACTIVE", why he wasn't released from the Reserve until 1978 and why there are so many pages of his record we can't see.
If he was AWOL from the Reserves on top of his anti-service activities his campaign would be over. However, should this become provable it should not be sprung until mid-October so the DEMS don't have time to substitute Hillary or Edwards.
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Retired USN Capt.; Market Time vicinity ChuLai 6/67-2/68; Maddox 8/64 Tonkin Gulf; NGFS I Corps 6-12/65; Saigon evac. 4/75.

Polaris · Rear Admiral Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 626

This might be why Kerry is so adamant in his refusal to sign a SF 180 even though it might help staunch his political bloodletting. His honorable discharge is dated 1978 which is about 6 years too late. I strongly suspect that he got a bad-paper discharge that got upgraded later.
_________________
-Polaris

Truth is Beauty

Son Of The Godfather · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:35 am Post subject:

msindependent · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:55 am Post subject:

I hope Sandy Berger isn't messing around with the paperwork. He has been silent lately and that makes me worry.

Polaris · Rear Admiral Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 626

SOTG,

There is no special power needed to upgrade a discharge. It happens all the time, and is routine for General (Honorable) discharges.
_________________
-Polaris

Truth is Beauty

Son Of The Godfather · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:15 am Post subject:

Chuck Z Ombie AC2000 · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:55 am Post subject:

Sillyvilian here and was wondering whats the difference between a bad paper discharge and a dishonorable discharge? I would think going AWOL would be an automatic diishonorable.
_________________
John Kerry, R.I.P. (Rot In Paris)

greasepaint · Seaman Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 177 Location: Texas

Why does an officer need a discharge?
My understanding is: once Kerry's time obligations for enlisting and
going to Officers.Candidate.School expire, he could quit anytime.
Except if he was being held in irons on some dismasted prison ship,
why would Kerry get a bad discharge?
.......
Who decides what type of discharge is granted?
Who is on the 'discharge upgrade' board?
How could this be kept a secret?
......
When Kerry's time obligations were up, why didn't he just quit?

swiftsocks · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 41

Not sure if this is what you are referring to......
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2394

Reassigned to PCF Swift Boat Training at Coronado, San Diego, CA
On leave 7/21/68 to 8/17/68 28 days
Reported 8/22/68. Training commenced 8/25/68 and finished 10/26/68
Training 62 days.
Kerry was ordered to report to Commander Coastal Squadron ONE
Cam Ranh Bay Vietnam by 10/31/68

**Failed to report until 11/17/68. Charged with 4 days leave 11/9 to 11/12/68

Polaris · Rear Admiral Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 626

greasepaint,

It is true that an officer can resign his commission after his service commitment, but that doesn't guarantee a good discharge.

There are many grades of discharge between Honorable and Dishonorable.

They are (IIRC):

General (Under Honorable)
General (Other than Honorable)
Bad Conduct

Of these, you can apply to have a General discharge (of either kind) upgraded to honorable after a period of time (I forget how long) and if the case of the General (Honorable), kind it is automatically granted. The date of the new discharge is not backdated, however. That's why I think that Kerry got a "bad paper" when he left the Navy in 1972.
_________________
-Polaris

Truth is Beauty

Dane · Lt.Jg. Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 114 Location: Chile

As I understand it, there is an awful lot of flexibility in the reserves - especially if requested by influential people both in and out of the Navy.

I think we have a case here of Kerry skipping an awful lot of drills - with authorization- and, thus, did not accrue the necessary quantity of "points" to request a discharge until 4 or 5 years later.

If this is the case, then he would simply claim that he was authorized. However, it does show that he felt he had more important things to do than honor his contract.

Dane

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

Lots of speculation here, so I'm moving this to Research and Resources, shortly.

Thanks,
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

Will · Seaman Recruit Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 10

I was commissioned a Reserve Officer in 1968 (Marines) and released from active duty in 1971 after a 3 year commitment. I did not have a requirement to join a drilling unit, although I did have an additional 3 year commitment in the Inactive Reserves. I assume the Navy was the same.
_________________
USMC Vietnam Vet
Retired O-6, USMCR

jwbarden · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject:

No drilling obligation. Kerry signed up for 4 yrs active commissioned service followed by IRR for the balance of the 6 year commitment.

His politically arranged early out aftter only 3 years and some change was justified as a needs-of-the-Navy end strength adjustment thing.

It is not unusual that he kept his reserve commission until 1978. Throughout the 70-78 inactive reserve period, he was not subject to the UCMJ and could be Ho Chi Kerry to his heart's content.