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On the Soviet origins of VVAW and today's leftism
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 12 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 3:33 pm    Post subject: On the Soviet origins of VVAW and today's leftism Reply with quote

Although this board was fathered to share a [negative] point of view by a specialized group of veterans from swift boat service about one of their former members, Mr. Kerry, as president of the U.S., it has become a focal point in the ongoing culture war reignited by the VVAW and other leftist groups in the U.S. in the 1960's.

Inasmuch as this movement came into being with an almost fully-cooked ideology, methods, propraganda-oriented language, networking, etc., I want to share a point of view that many will find uncomfortable but fitting of the circumstances.

The Soviets spent an inordinate amount of effort and money on psyops, spies, propaganda (the KGB and Radio Moscow were HUGE enterprises). Their population, including that of their "satellite" countries, was well-versed in ideology as part of their elementary education, a situation almost nonexistent in the U.S. especially in the 1950's and 1960's. This is confirmed by speaking to some of my friends who had emigrated from those countries many years ago. Ideology (focusing on the great advantages of socialism and communism) was just another subject, even at grade and high school level.

It is my belief that the VVAW movement and other radical left-wing movements were likely spearheaded, nourished, encouraged, and supported through Soviet propaganda and subversion operatives, as a non-military way to damage the war effort of the U.S. against Communism. Supported by anti-US propaganda eminating from the Soviet "news" sources (Radio Moscow, Tass, other press agencies of the satellite countries), whose 'reports' frequently found their way into the U.S. media verbatim, the VVAW was most definitely a Fifth Column not only acting against the war, but also against capitalism, rule of law and western culture in general. Today's left are their heirs.

Note the confluence of anti-war groups, socialist "workers party" groups (e.g., A.N.S.W.E.R), openly socialist and communist-oriented university professors, and others (I leave out the bizarre inclusion of racist, female-apartheid, suicide-loving, neck-slicing, genocidal, nihilistic Islamists in this set, as I attribute that to creeping moral obtundation and insanity in the left in general.)

I'm not saying that Kerry was deliberately involved in this; he may have been a victim of it (as in the "useful idiot" concept I believe Lenin described).

Much as the Islamofascists have used America's open freedoms to infiltrate their views and their operatives, so the Soviets did back then. (It would have been impossible due to the closed nature of Soviet society for us to have done the reverse).

The U.S. has never quite recovered from the ideological injury on western culture inflicted by the Soviets. Like any psychological trauma, such damage takes a long time to heal. The continued salt in the wounds effected by the left (e.g., via the universities and news media they dominate) has not let this healing occur.

In addition to the VVAW FBI files, one wonders what newly opened Soviet-era archives in the countries of the former USSR will show.


Last edited by fortdixlover on Sat May 22, 2004 3:54 pm; edited 5 times in total
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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campjwIII
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Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ever the roots of VVAW might have been
It was a community of Veterans that at the time was the only community we had.
The Organization was built to disband at the end of the war.

In short VVAW was a Therapeutic Community more than anthing else.

That community was exploited for personal political platforms.

The Left was too radical and the Right thought we had drug problems.
After The Last Patrol -the demonstration at the Miami Republican Nation Convention -many VVAW members went on to other things -Life, Jobs...

There were members of the Socialist Worker Party that tried to co-opt the organization for years.
Having failed to procure the membership files -they none the less stole the name.
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeremy Eaton
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My god fortdixlover
... you are a piece of work. Did someone do a clockwork orange number on you?
Do you have any sort of proof of these rather outlandish theories?
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

retracted

Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jeremy Eaton
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hist/student wrote:
Well I could not agree more. Yet again I will post this article written by one of the communist spy masters who worked kerry for all he was worth.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp



This is real stuff. In a world where people try to rig the olympic ice skating results it is foolish to ignore your enemy's ......


The sources of the "Geghis Kahn" assertion. There are a multitude of report and links regarding those sorts of atrocities.

I don't really believe this proves anything. There a lot's of alternative explanations for almost every point made in this essay. I don't go into conspiracy theory too much, but I'm willing to listen to any more evidence, if you'd care to provide it. I'm willing to believe that the communists supported anti-war sentiment for their political benefit. Taking advantage of the unrest that was already there. However, do you think the end of the Viet Nam war (or the start for that matter) wasn't in the US population's interest?
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 01 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy Eaton wrote:
hist/student wrote:
Well I could not agree more. Yet again I will post this article written by one of the communist spy masters who worked kerry for all he was worth.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp



This is real stuff. In a world where people try to rig the olympic ice skating results it is foolish to ignore your enemy's ......


The sources of the "Geghis Kahn" assertion. There are a multitude of report and links regarding those sorts of atrocities.

I don't really believe this proves anything. There a lot's of alternative explanations for almost every point made in this essay. I don't go into conspiracy theory too much, but I'm willing to listen to any more evidence, if you'd care to provide it. I'm willing to believe that the communists supported anti-war sentiment for their political benefit. Taking advantage of the unrest that was already there. However, do you think the end of the Viet Nam war (or the start for that matter) wasn't in the US population's interest?


If you take the time to study carefully the anti-war movement in the US then and now you will find that it was and is fomented by communists (most call themselves socialists these days). If wasn't oportunistic like Kerry---It was a studied plan. Do a little research on a MIT professor by the name of Noam Chomsky. Very Happy
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeremy Eaton
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ASPB"][quote="Jeremy Eaton"]
ASPB wrote:


If you take the time to study carefully the anti-war movement in the US then and now you will find that it was and is fomented by communists (most call themselves socialists these days). If wasn't oportunistic like Kerry---It was a studied plan. Do a little research on a MIT professor by the name of Noam Chomsky. Very Happy


Actually, I've read three of four of his books. What's your problem with Chomsky?
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Jeremy Eaton
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hist/student wrote:
Mr Eaton, to begin with if you look at the huge protests in Euorpe and some of the protests in Baghdad itself (earlier in the war) you may (if willing) notice a predomenance of huge red flags and banners.

I only have my expeirence (personal from inadvertantly walking into one of these groups with the big beautifull red flag) that these are communist orginized and financed protests. They are willing to let anybody who wishes join them as their goal is to have the largest population possable on the ground for Propaganda effects. Street theater.


By joining in with these guys and making there size appear larger then it really is (in #'s of actual communinsts) any body can aid their cause.

Their cause is the defeat of capitolism.... That would be the defeat of my country as I know it.

Does'nt matter whether you are a fool soccor mom(with a hot pink cashmere sweater) from very wealthy upper west side manhatten, or very weathy john kerry from mass in his fatiques. Ultimatly this does more to aid the ememy then it does actualy sway anybodies oppionions.

History has always been a certain degree of theater, in the age of T V this has become ever more so the case..... just remember Mrs clinton standing by her man and refering to the 'vast right wing conspiricy'....

A very powerfull moment in theater and history.... she was lieing so was her husband.... Katie Couric acting as the master of ceremony's.

I think the end of any war is in somebodies interest. The way the Vietnam war ended was in no ones interest other than the communists.....

certainly not the Millions of those killed in the region while the communists 'cleaned up'. And of course you know as does Mr Reese these countries from Vietnam to China to Isreal have and are integrating as much capitolism as possable into their economy in order to feed everyone.

so my answer is NO


Wow. You're joking right? Red banners in protests = communism?
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hist/student
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unabashed comprehensive retraction

Last edited by hist/student on Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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