SwiftVets.com

[Tom Poole]

[SooZQ]

Hi Tom, Thanks for your involvement. I confess to being a bit confused, who is Mr. Estrige/Eldrige, whom you name? The editor's name is Randy Patrick.

Warmest regards, Sue
_________________

Really support the troops, send them a letter and care package! Visit:http://www.anysoldier.com

[ASPB]

Sue,

You may find this dialogue with Randy Patrick interesting.

Mr. Patrick,

From your words alone it's clear your perspective is based solely on political ideology and doesn't have the slightest thing to do with truth seeking or logical thought. You're research goes so far as reading Jim Rassman's and John Kerry's story and swallowing a slimy worm just like a catfish.

I suggest you look for a job as a Hagiographer and give up your failed attempt at investigative journalism. You'll be in good company with Doug Brinkley.

The truth hurts your cause so you ignore it.

Have a lousy day,

Tom Mortensen

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy [mailto:rpatrick@jessaminejournal.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: letter to the editor

Mr. Mortensen:
I did research for hours and hours, hundreds of pages and many Web
sites and lots of Sunday morning TV discussions before I wrote. I have
heard of Sandusky, and did read a small portion of the Complete Bio and all of Brinkley's book.

I appreciate your service to our country. I just respectively disagree with you about whether this campaign is honorable.

I really wish John McCain were our president. Or Colin Powell, Bob
Kerrey or Bob Dole. But we don't have any stellar choices this year.

Randy Patrick


On Aug 31, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Tom Mortensen wrote:

Mr. Patrick,

I served on those rivers for a full year. I've researched these issues almost full time for 6 months and consider myself an expert on the topic.

I am extremely frustrated by the laziness, ineptitude, and at times, plain partisan lies I find when the "news media" writes on this topic.

If you're trying to get at the truth and don't even know Michael
Kranish's name you've got a long way to go. Michael Kranish is the Globe writer who contributed to "John Kerry, the Complete Biography".

Although I have a problem with Kerry's post-war antics, his medal quest in Nam is really disconcerting. He spit on my Silver Star and my Purple Heart by falsely putting himself in for awards witnessed solely by a kid from Mass by the name of Del Sandusky! Do you know who he is. Try researching before writing.

Tom Mortensen
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy [mailto:rpatrick@jessaminejournal.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:47 AM
To: anticipation@offwind.com
Subject: Re: letter to the editor

Dear Mr. Mortensen:

I don't know who Kranish is, but I did watch and listen to some interviews with O'Neill and read comments from him and other Swiftvets. Thanks for clarifying the grenade launchers thing. That's the first I've heard of that. As for being biased, I don't think I am. I'm trying to get at the truth.


If your beef is with Kerry's protesting against the war, why don't you concentrate on that instead of distorting his war record (far more than he has distorted or inflated it)? He obviously repeated things by the Winter Soldiers that weren't true. Why not concentrate on that? It doesn't help your cause to come up with things that are easily discredited and have been for years.

This campaign of disinformation is nothing new.

Randy Patrick

On Aug 31, 2004, at 11:29 AM, Tom Mortensen wrote:

No I do not live in your county but you are badly misleading your readers. It's clear you had time to read Brinkley and Kranish. You might take the time to read O'Neill as well.

You clearly understand nothing about M-79 Grenade Launchers. It wasn't misfired. It was misaimed. This happened commonly with novices like Kerry.

The question is not whether Kerry fished Rassman out. He did. We at Swiftvets don't dispute it. But of course you don't know what we do dispute because you won't open your biased mind to the truth.

Shame on you!

Tom Mortensen

-----Original Message----- From: Randy [mailto:rpatrick@jessaminejournal.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:57 AM
Subject: letter to the editor

Do you have any connection to Jessamine County, Ky.? We generally don't run letters to the editor from people outside our service area unless they are readers of our paper who comment on local issues or respond to things that have appeared in the paper that they have read.

As for the Gene Rassman incident, I encourage you to read Rassman's account of what happened. He says Kerry's boat saved him, Kerry pulled him out of the water, and he was "scared to death" because there were bullets flying all around him when it happened.

Certainly, Kerry's first wound was minor and probably shouldn't have warranted a Purple Heart. But how does anybody know it was self-inflicted? He said he put the gun down when it jammed, picked up another gun, and about that time, he felt a piece of hot shrapnel go into his arm. I know little about guns, but I have had a few misfire on me. Can a misfired weapon, once it's laid down, send metal fragments flying? This doesn't sound credible to me.

Randy Patrick
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Ha, ASPB!

Here's a "journalist" who isn't going to let the facts distract him from his pro-Kerry cheerleading!

Good going.... but it's rather like talking to a rock, ain't it?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Tom Poole]

[ASPB]

Jeez,

Good old boy Randy just got more "NEW" media exposure than he's seen in an entire career!
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[stylin19]

Might want to let him know that olympic athletes "win" medals.
Military medals are "awarded". Someone else puts you in for an award.

There is a bone of contention that Sen. Kerry put himself in for some of his medals.

To clear up the mess, all Sen. Kerry has to do is sign form 180. Why wont he ?
_________________
U.S.M.C. - 1969-1971
RVN- 1970-1971

[Me#1You#10]

With the presentation of the new ad, we anticipate a lot of "topical" chatter to develop today. As this topic, although pertinent, deals with developing a response to Kerry spin, I'm going to move it to R&R shortly.

Thanks

[SooZQ]

Thanks to all of you who responded. Now that this post has been moved, the hits will no doubt drop off. To those of you who wrote to the editor, Randy Patrick, I'm sure you put the ZOOM into his day! Ha!

I'll take all your comments into consideration to craft a pointed rebuttal.

Thanks again, Sue


_________________

Really support the troops, send them a letter and care package! Visit:http://www.anysoldier.com

[Tom Poole]

Like bulldogs, it's difficult to let go. Here's my exchange with Mr Patrick:

Tom Poole wrote:

Randy, following up on an earlier email, I believe you have fallen victim to a biased mainstream media. For example, did you know that Rassmann was an Awards and Decorations Officer? Did you know, his unit didn't usually allow him to command missions and generally used him for individualized missions, e.g., translator duties? Did you know that one of his Green Beret "buddies" told his story but was repeatedly told to "zip it" by Rassmann? Did you know Rassmann told two different stories about how he ended up in the water? Did you know he dived repeatedly but claims to have seen everything? Did you know he received a Purple Heart for his dip but no one has been able to find that he was treated or injured in any way? Journalists like you are driving readers like me to alternative sources for news. thx. Tom Poole, Plano, TX

Randy Patrick wrote:

I didn't know that. Thanks for informing me. I tend to question "alternative" forms of media, whether of the left or the right. They don't have the same commitment to truth and fairness that we in the mainstream media have.
_________________
'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2

[SBD]

Ask him if he did such tremedious research then why is no one investigating the Citations signed by Lehman who was Secretary of the Navy in the 80's and has publically stated that he "never saw it, never signed it, and never approved it". I would like to see his response to that and see it in the paper since that might be the only way to get it printed.

Link to thread on Lehman
http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6106

SBD

[Fleepster]

Hi, Folks:

Mr. Patrick's column sort of set me off, so I sent him an email. Took a while to write. I'm posting it here. I was pretty sure I had the timeline for Kerry's purple hearts right, but may have gotten it wrong. I know that Kerry received the "skimmer" purple heart weeks after 12/2/1968, but thought it was actually received after the Bay Hap River mine incident. From the looks of it, Mr. Patrick has received an "eye-ful, " but at least has been willing to reply.

Keep up the good work, Swifties.

What I sent to Patrick (with a cc: to his publisher).

Greetings, Mr. Patrick:

I ran across a reference to your August 26, 2004 column regarding the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ("SBVT"). I read your column, and believe it exhibits the typical mainstream media approach to the issues raised initially by Senator John Kerry, and responded to by the SBVT.

I am not surprised that you failed to address the facts provided by the SBVT, and the fact that Senator Kerry's position has changed on several of his stories.

First, Kerry repeatedly said that he was five miles inside Cambodia on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, 1968, at a time when President Nixon (who took office a month later) was telling the world that we had no troops in Cambodia. On the floor of the U.S. Senate, Kerry said that that memory was "seared -- seared in" him. In addition, Steve Gardner stated flatly that Kerry's boat was never in Cambodia. Gardner served on Kerry's boat for two months and two weeks, which is reportedly longer than any other enlisted man's time on either of Kerry's two swift boats (PCF-44 and PCF-94). Gardner was on board Kerry's boat in December and January. Two Sundays ago, a Kerry representative backtracked on the "Christmas in Cambodia" story. John Hurley said that Kerry may have gotten the date wrong, but that he was definitely in Cambodia at some point, perhaps in January. A man does not forget something that is "seared" in him. Unless, of course, the story isn't true.

How do I know that Kerry was not in Cambodia on December 24 or 25, 1968? Kerry's own journal indicates that he was back at base on the 24th, and referred to action in Vietnam for that day. He even wrote that he had sugar plums dancing in his head.

People often refer to Kerry's three purple hearts as the "first, second, and third." That is misleading, inasmuch as Kerry's first request for a purple heart was denied by his then-commanding officer, Grant Hibbard. In fact, Kerry's third purple heart was awarded several months after December 2, 1968, but for that first "wound." Kerry has not denied that the "wound" was minor and only required a bandaid. I refer you to Louis Letson's statements. I also refer you to Admiral Schachte's statements regarding the events leading up to the "wound" and how it was accidentally inflicted by Kerry's own actions in the absence of enemy fire.

Now, how do I know that Kerry was not under fire on December 2, 1968? Simple: Kerry said so himself. In a journal entry some days after December 2, Kerry wrote that he had yet to face enemy fire. So regardless of the extent of Kerry's injury, he was not entitled to a purple heart for the events of December 2, 1968.

His so-called third purple heart was actually awarded second, chronologically. It was for events that occurred on the day when PCF-3 was hit by the mine. (You probably know that "Patrol Craft Fast" was the official name for the swift boats.) Kerry received at least two "injuries" that day. One was from his own actions in the absence of enemy fire. How do I know that? Because Jim Rassmann, and Kerry himself, have said so. The "wound" resulted from Kerry and Rassmann destroying a cache of rice with grenades. Kerry did not get away fast enough, and was hit in the buttocks with, apparently, rice. Rassmann has stated publicly that Kerry's "wound" was more embarassing than painful, and that Kerry did not mention it to anyone else. The other "wound" was identified in official documents as a "contusion" on his arm. "Contusion" is a fancy word for a bruise. Kerry apparently suffered the bruise during the Bay Hap mine incident later in the day. If Kerry wants to claim a purple heart for a bruise, I suppose he might be entitled to one under the applicable regulations, but I'm not even sure that's the case. At least he can say that he received the bruise when his boat was rocked by a mine (assuming his boat actually WAS rocked by a second mine), which constitutes enemy fire.

The members of SBVT have maintained that, when the mine hit PCF-3, Kerry was the only commander to make a run for it. Kerry's representatives have had to admit that that was true. The three remaining commanders stayed in the area and ordered suppression fire in case of an attack from the river banks. The majority of the men who were present that day say that there was no enemy fire. The river was apparently about 75 yards wide at that point. The boats would have been no more than 38 yards from either bank, and probably considerably closer to one bank. Kerry has said that he faced a hail of gunfire for 5000 meters (more than three miles) along the river, and from both banks.

I find it more than interesting -- I find it telling -- that the only men injured that day were on PCF-3, and were injured as a direct result of the mine exploding and lifting the boat two or three feet out of the water. No other wounds, and no bullet holes in any of the boats. Nothing. It defies all logic and common sense to believe that the enemy fired on five swift boats, at a range of no more than 120 feet, and inflicted no damage.

By all accounts, the boats were on the river for about an hour while trying to get PCF-3 under control, rescue the several men who fell overboard, and tend to the men on PCF-3. Even the worst marksman in all of history could have hit one of those boats with at least one bullet. But that didn't happen.

Your column indicates that "many people think that these veterans were members of Kerry's boat crew. They were not." Well, Steve Gardner WAS a member of Kerry's crew, and served longer with him than any other crewmember. Steve Gardner is a member of SBVT. In addition, anyone with common sense will know that you don't have to be in the same boat to know what the commander of another boat is like. The swift boats operated in groups of two to six. Witness the Bay Hap mine incident. These men lived, ate, and went to war together. Ask any pilot if he knows what another pilot is like, and he (or she), can tell you. Ask any defensive football player if he knows what the quarterback is like, and he can tell you. Such is the case with the men of SBVT.

You are incorrect when you say that "all of the living members of Kerry's Swift boat crew had stood on stage with him at the Democratic National Convention in Boston." Steve Gardner did not stand with him, and refuses to do so. The overwhelming majority of Kerry's fellow commanding officers have labeled him as "unfit for command." This apparently means nothing to you.

Your column indicates that you convinced someone to change his or her letter to the editor because the it referred to a scratch on Kerry's hand, when the scratch was actually to his left arm. Bravo, Mr. Patrick. Obviously, the issue is not the circumstances giving rise to the wound, or the severity of that wound. The real issue is the location of the wound. As we all know, anyone who receives a slight injury to his left arm is entitled to a purple heart, whereas if the injury was to his hand, all bets are off. I find it interesting -- and telling -- that you did not address the cause of the injury. You merely state that Kerry didn't give himself the medal. You fail to admit, however, that Kerry SOUGHT a purple heart for an accidentally self-inflicted wound and was turned down by his commanding officer. Who in the world do you think made the second request for a purple heart for that same injury? It sure wasn't Grant Hibbard or an attending physician. Hibbard had already left Vietnam by then, as had Schachte.

Your column admiringly quotes Kerry's comment about asking a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam. You omit Kerry's statement that the Vietnam War was the "biggest nothing in history." Kerry can't have it both ways. If the Vietnam War was the biggest nothing in history, then service there is nothing to be admired for. If the Vietnam War was worth fighting, then Kerry was wrong in 1971 and he should apologize now. Which is it? Kerry's post-service activities were deplorable. The North Vietnamese torturers used Kerry's statements against our POWs. Maybe that means nothing to you. Maybe that means nothing to John Kerry. What is abundantly clear is that it meant nothing to John Kerry in 1971.

You stated that, in the past, "the men who served with him have rallied around Kerry, as they're doing now." You must have overlooked the fact that the overwhelming majority of the men who "served with" Kerry have publicly denounced him as a candidate for Commander-in-Chief.

You indirectly attack President Bush by referring to Senator McCain and the president's "refusal" to "refute" the statements made by the SBVT. First, President Bush has never whined about the attacks and smears that have come from the liberals. More than sixty million dollars have been spent by "527" groups against Bush. Probably less than one million dollars have been spent by SBVT. Kerry has yet to denounce the attacks against Bush. But I don't want Kerry to denounce the liberal groups, any more than I want Bush to denounce conservative groups. It is not their place to do so. Those groups are independent from the politicians, and should be. Yes, a couple of men worked for Bush's reelection and advised SBVT. But the same thing has occurred with Kerry's advisors. Do you condemn both, or neither? It would be hypocritical to condemn only one side, wouldn't it?

I love it when the liberal media say that the SBVT ads were funded by wealthy conservative with ties to Bush. Guess what? The liberal attacks are funded by wealthy liberals with ties to Democrat politicians. Does George Soros have "ties" to John Kerry? People give money to the side that they support, and give money to any collateral groups that can further the agenda and candidacies of politicians on that side.

I find it very hypocritical of you to say that "right-wingers . . . depict their opponents as liars or lunatics." Read the title of your article, Mr. Patrick. You have labeled the members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth as liars and slanderers. However, instead of Kerry doing his own dirty work, he sends out people who were nowhere near Vietnam to debate SBVT members. Of course, he can always count on the liberal media to do his dirty work for him, as well. Your column is a classic case of that.

One of my friends is a liberal, and he said that this election should be about the issues. Amen to that. But John Kerry has made his entire campaign about his service in Vietnam. That's all we heard from him during his struggle to win the primaries. Do you think it was by accident that John Rassmann showed up at a critical time for Kerry's campaign? No one can be that naive, can they? Kerry ran on his abbreviated tour as if he were a real hero with a story to tell. Instead, he is a self-promoting man who ran from danger when he got a chance. He ran when another boat was mined, and he ran from Vietnam as soon as he could. You may have noticed that he is silently running from his record in the U.S. Senate. But a man can't run forever. Not when he has to stand and fight, or be swept aside with the failed candidacies of history.

Maybe you know that Kerry sought a deferment so he could study in Paris. Maybe you know that when Kerry volunteered for swift boat duty that those boats were used only for coastal patrol and were a pretty safe place to serve. Maybe you know that Kerry told Yale classmates that he would be the next JFK from Massachusetts. Maybe you recognize the similarity between John F. Kennedy's PT-109t and the swift boats on which Kerry served. Maybe you refuse to acknowledge any of that.

Kerry has asked people to vote for him because he would be a better Commander-in-Chief than Bush. Kerry's only qualification is his 4-1/2 month tour in Vietnam. The proven facts indicate that Kerry was not a great commander of a 50-foot aluminum boat. What could make anyone believe that he would be a great commander of an entire military force that is now engaged in deadly combat with an enemy that is insidious and would stop at nothing to deliver weapons of mass destruction at our doorstep? Kerry is a dove. We do not need a dove at this point in history.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. If you wish to include this letter in your newspaper, please allow me to review it as edited, prior to publication.
_________________
John

[ASPB]

He finally shows his true colors:

Mr. Patrick,

The majority of Vietnam veterans believe that Kerry is a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic fraud and an empty uniform. He is not a good man!

He has admitted to lying about being in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968 to affect U.S foreign policy in Nicaragua in his support of Daniel Ortega and the Sandinistas.

He was in favor of a nuclear freeze that would have us still facing the Soviet threat.

He contributed to our abandonment of the South Vietnamese to communists which led to genocide in Cambodia and the loss of an estimated 2 million lives having said to the Senate 1971 that only 3000 people would be displaced.

You are seriously misguided, sir but you're clearly entitled to your opinion.

I apologize for the earlier vitriol.

Tom Mortensen

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy [mailto:rpatrick@jessaminejournal.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: letter to the editor

I'm willing to run a column (750 words or less) from ONE of the Swift
Boat Veterans Group. But it has to be in good taste and include no
profanity. We already have a lot of local commentary we're planning to
publish about it, and we don't have room for all the responses in the
mass e-mail campaign you guys have started. So pick your best writer
and let him have at it.

My column doesn't purport to be investigative journalism; it was an
opinion piece based on what I believed to be the truth.
You have a nice day, too. I don't take back what I said about
respecting you for your service to our country. But I don't respect you
guys for trying to destroy someone I believe is a good man who is still
seeking to serve his country in time of war.
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[SooZQ]

EXCEPTIONAL COMMENTARY GUYS! I CAN READ THE INFO
AND DO MY BEST TO RELATE IT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED AND HAVE MORE THAN EARNED YOUR RIGHT TO
SPEAK!

I HOPE THAT OTHERS PASSING BY THIS POST WILL EMAIL
THIS EDITOR WITH FACTS, FACTS, FACTS

GOD BLESS AMERICA!


_________________

Really support the troops, send them a letter and care package! Visit:http://www.anysoldier.com

[Tom Poole]

I vote for ASPB as our spokesperson to the Jessamine Journal.
_________________
'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2