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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:19 am Post subject: Howard Kurtz, WaPo - "Old News, Long Overdo" |
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Please alert me when the newest urban myth recited below by Mr. Kurtz is actually accompanied by the alleged "debunking".
| Quote: | Media Notes
Old News, Long Overdo
Vietnam-Era Rumors Dig In for the Duration
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 13, 2004; Page C01
Is absolutely everything fair game for the press these days?
From the contours of John Kerry's war wounds to George Bush's failure to take a National Guard physical to a book's disputed allegations of drug use at Camp David, the media seem consumed these days with excavating the down-and-dirty past.
All too often the details are murky, the evidence secondhand, the documents doubted, the arguments driven by high-decibel partisanship.
"I don't think the media feel badly anymore covering 30-year-old wars or personal scandals," says Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist and press critic. "I don't think they feel particularly badly about publishing gossip and unproven allegations." Although there's an argument that what the candidates did during Vietnam "is revealing of Bush's character and Kerry's character, it's not nearly as important as what they've done in their public lives in the last 20 years."
If journalists devoted the same investigative energy to the candidates' efforts to bolster Medicare and Social Security or deal with the mess in Iraq -- as opposed to precisely what happened on the Bay Hap River in 1969 -- perhaps more people might find campaign coverage compelling.
When the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth began charging that Kerry didn't deserve some of his Vietnam medals, cable television acted as a giant echo chamber. Even when several newspapers found holes and inconsistencies in the veterans' accounts, the debate continued to rage on the air and in news columns, virtually swallowing the month of August.
note: Emphasis mine
Washington Post - con't |
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Oh, yah, just TRY to equate Kitty Kelley's POS with "Unfit for Command." 
Guess he didn't notice that the Kerry campaign has been forced to back down on several claims.
Guess he hasn't noticed that Kerry has refused to answer even a single question raised in UFC.
Guess he hasn't noticed that it's the Kerry Kampf who is making the attacks at a personal level, attempting to kill off the messenger.
Delusional or merely another KookAde drinker?
I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive. 
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Kurtz, listen up:
| Quote: | | When the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth began charging that Kerry didn't deserve some of his Vietnam medals, cable television acted as a giant echo chamber. Even when several newspapers found holes and inconsistencies in the veterans' accounts, the debate continued to rage on the air and in news columns, virtually swallowing the month of August. |
The mainstream media is a total failure at investigative journalism. We know it and you should know it. Your industry is awash with Jayson Blairs and Dan Rathers who operate on political imperatives and not truth. They wouldn't know truth if it landed on their noses. As for finding holes, I can only imagine that members of mainstream media are doing well to find their own orifices.
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neverforget
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Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Kurtz's head is the mother of all echo chambers.
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army72
Seaman
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Unbelievable, you have to wonder if there is any investigating at all or are they ordered to stick with pre-arranged DNC marching orders. Yellow journalism at it's most embarrassing. |
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J. Toy
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 96
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:21 am Post subject: |
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I've heard few talking heads even hint, that if you have a pool of +/-300 people, and +/- 90% of that pool has one belief, and the other +/- 10% has another, that just maybe, the 90% group may have something there. Those are some strong numbers! Then they fawn over polling numbers. "wow Bush up 52 to 41, that is significant."
I doubt that you could get 90% one way and 10% another, on any topic anywhere, let alone from a small combat unit from Viet Nam 30 yrs ago.
Just the possibility of the character charges in UFC against Kerry being true, aside from the traitorous testimony on the record, should be enough for any legitimate news organization, as "apolitical watchdogs" and Americans toinvestigate this.
Bill O'Reilly chose to use "youthful indiscretion" as his copout. He's obviously in the bag for Kerry, and "looking out for no one but himself and his bud."
It appalls me to know that we could have another horrific tragedy in this country, at any time, and the "prime time players" continue to pursue their own selfish agendas at the expense of the people they claim to serve.
These Kerry supporters have many and varied deficiencies, and I hope for them, us, and our military force that the only trauma they experience, is Kerry's loss on 11/2.
For the Viet vets, it may bring some closure.
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Me#1You#10
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Interesting that Howard Kurtz alludes to the "echo chamber" of cable television. Do I detect a hint of sonic-reverberation in the pristine world of print journalism as well? Hmmmm?
| Howard Kurtz wrote: | When the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth began charging that Kerry didn't deserve some of his Vietnam medals, cable television acted as a giant echo chamber. (emphasis mine)
Washington Post |
| Quote: | Q & A
Coaching Team Kerry
Posted 2004-09-13
The New Yorker
Online Only
This week in the magazine, Ken Auletta writes about Robert Shrum, John Kerry’s senior adviser, and whether he's up to the job of taking on Bush. Here, with The New Yorker’s Matt Dellinger, Auletta discusses Kerry, his team, and the role of the media in the Presidential race.
MATT DELLINGER: How has the Kerry campaign performed, in your opinion, and what has Bob Shrum's role been?
KEN AULETTA: Shrum's brilliant strategy in the primary season a year ago was that, in the post-9/11 world, the public would tire of negative campaigning, and that Kerry was the only candidate who had the potential to unite all these Democratic parties, and the only candidate, or one of the only candidates, with a war record that would potentially immunize him against charges that he was soft on defense or too liberal. He fought back those people in the Kerry campaign who wanted to attack Howard Dean, who wanted to go after him more aggressively, saying that if they did that they'd diminish Kerry's stature, and they would polarize the Party and make it tougher for Kerry to emerge as the winner. He was proved right in that strategic choice. But where he's probably wrong, I think, is that he's done what generals often do: he's repeated the same strategy for one war without realizing there’s a different war. When the Swift-boat attacks came, in early August, the Kerry campaign waited to fully respond to them. Shrum’s philosophy was that, post-9/11, people didn't have the kind of tolerance for negative personal attacks. That has been proved false, because Kerry's poll numbers, as they related to that topic, dropped. I think the Kerry camp misunderstood the nature of the modern campaign, where you have Internet dovetailing with twenty-four-hour cable news, creating this kind of echo chamber.
(emphasis mine.....mine......mine......mine......mine
The New Yorker con't |
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lrb111
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Howard Kurtz, WaPo - "Old News, Long Overdo" |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | Please alert me when the newest urban myth recited below by Mr. Kurtz is actually accompanied by the alleged "debunking".
| Quote: | . Even when several newspapers found holes and inconsistencies in the veterans' accounts, the debate continued to rage on the air and in news columns, virtually swallowing the month of August.
note: Emphasis mine
Washington Post - con't |
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well all i can figure is that he meant "veteran's" instead of veterans'; meaning kerry.
"Tour of Duty" is in for rewrites of the intro, by Kranish. Because they need to dispel any absurd claims of collusion with the Boston Globe.
The flowery language about all the bombing, rockets, flaoting bodies, etc while abord the Gridley might be altered a little.
They may also drop the part about "not having been shot at yet", since he had already applied for a purple heart.
Might want to add a little more clarity to the shooting of the young VC. It will be interesting WHICH Silver Star citation it matches up with.
Could probably clean up the Rassman incident to match at least on of the 6 versions of that story in the various press accounts.
In honor of VC the flying dog, that story might be removed. Since the explosion necessary to launch a dog 100 yards woud have broken the backs, ankles , necks of those aboard. I assume the med reports were lost on those sailors.
The Xmas in Cambdia story will probably be reprised more simply. So when Kerry opens his breifcase we can read the embroidery on it to say, "My bud visited Cambodia, and all he brought me was this damn hat."
These are jsut small holes that can easily be fixed with any word processor.
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said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
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The Cyber Menace
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:15 am Post subject: |
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That's too bad. I have considered Kurtz to be one of the honest brokers in the leftist media. He's even defended Rush in the past against some of the usual attacks from the left.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the if he says the Swift Vets have been discredited, he really thinks that.
There is a general perception out there that this is a poltical hatchet job on the part of the SBVT, despite the fact that the polls show Kerry's responses have been rather inadequate.
For that perception to change in the minds of people like Kurtz, they're going to need more. But that's hard. Once people have an opinion of something, it's awfully difficult to change it. It means a change in the way people see a particular issue. And with some like Kurtz, they think the SBVT are up to dirty tricks. Don't know what can be done about that, or if he's a target for the Swiftees anyways. |
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wvobiwan
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: Nah, Kerry is the Target |
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| The Cyber Menace wrote: | | ... And with some like Kurtz, they think the SBVT are up to dirty tricks. Don't know what can be done about that, or if he's a target for the Swiftees anyways. |
I imagine no one but Kerry is the 'target' of the Swifties. The media flacks for Kerry that disparage the Swifties without proof have become the media arm of the Kerry campaign. Everyone knows that, sees it, and only the leftist media denies it.
The media is in two fights, one to elect anyone but Bush, and another to remove the threats to their monopoly on truth in America - bloggers and 527s. The McCain/Feingold Act was supposed to cement theirs and the politicians strangehold on political discourse in this country. Instead it is forcing a 'push back' against silencing the voice of the average American. The RNC and DNC didn't expect that anyone but their designated flunkies would form 527s, but the loophole also allowed in the Swift Vets. Even though the Swiftie ads help the Republicans, even they don't really want to give the people such a powerful voice. The politicians, media, and lawyers would LOVE to STRENGTHEN McCain/Feingold - IT SHOULD BE REPEALED. It is a direct assault on our rights to free speech. I'm for Bush in most things, but not this (or his stance on illegal immigrants).
IF THE POLITICIANS, OLD MEDIA, AND THE LAWYERS ARE ALL FOR THIS MCCAIN/FEINGOLD NONSENSE, IT TRULY CANNOT BE A GOOD THING FOR AVERAGE AMERICANS.
Bloggers have been the second unpleasant surprise for the media and the crats. The legion of bloggers on the Net also threatens to eliminate the media's ability to influence elections, policies, and actions of our country. They can no longer lie and distort with impunity, bloggers have handed them their ass TWICE in a major way in only the last 6 months: The Swifties and the CBS forgeries would never have been stories if not for bloggers.
Makes me proud to be an American. My blog is puny and poorly written compared to some on the Net, but feel free to read and comment: http://sanityanyone.blogspot.com
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Doug
"Proud of my Dad, 2-tour veteran of VN."
Kerry/Edwards Foreign Policy Slogan: Accept our surrender or we'll sue! |
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stealthy
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:49 am Post subject: |
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The rule I apply to them is can I tell how they vote. I know how Kurtz votes. I can tell his friends are leftists. His schtick is naval gazing. No one who says the SVs have been discredited is credible because it hasn't been done. Kerry hasn't released his records. Their opinion therefore on the matter is of little weight. If they want to convince me, they have got to get all his records out or at least pretend they want to. Has anyone seen the Kerry reserve records? No? You mean the hubble telescope is only on Bush records? Go figure.
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