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Mary · Former Member Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

Both PCF 94 and PCF 44 are referenced in the book as being boats Kerry was on, but I am wondering when he was on which boat, or if it's just a typo.

Also in the book, a short one-week period in "An Thoi" was mentioned as Kerry's whole time there before he was transferred out to Cat Lo (Coastal Div. 13), but then An Thoi keeps coming up a lot in references in the book after that, so I'm a little confused as to whether he was only in An Thoi one week or for longer.

LewWaters · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject:

Mary, Kerry commanded two separate boats at different times. His short 4 month stay in Vietnam was spent with two units, after his training time in Cam Rhan.

Edited to add;

Mary, here is a discussion that may help you with this, the timeline of his service. About the third post, I believe, it is oulined when he was reassigned.

Kerry Timeline
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Mary · Former Member Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

Thanks for the link to the timeline. It's too bad O'Neill didn't make it clear in the book when Kerry was with PCF 44 and when he was with PCF 94, so that it doesn't look like a typo.

I am gathering that you are saying Kerry was with PCF 44 when he was first assigned to Coastal Squadron One in Coastal Div. 14. The timeline doesn't say and neither does the book..

As for the timeline, it indicates he was reassigned to Coastal Div. 11 in Dec. 1968. It never mentions him being transferred again to CosDiv 13 at Cat Lo, which O'Neill claims occurred on page 45 of his book, saying that Kerry only was in the more dangerous CosDiv 11 at An Thoi for one week. Yet on page 52, he introduces an entire section of the book as being "incidents that took place in An Thoi where Kerry was reassigned after Cat Lo." What the heck is that about? Is this a typo in the book?

Either Kerry was in the dangerous An Thoi area for only one week and was then transferred to the less hazardous Cat Lo for the rest of his tour, as explained on pages 45 and 46, or he was in An Thoi for a good bit of his tour, as per page 52 and the pages following it.

I think this is an example of where O'Neill didn't get enough time to finish the book with careful proofreading of his own, probably due to time constraints and I hope he and his publisher fix the discrepancy eventually.

Also, in sections of the book that come after this, he weaves back and forth in time talking about PCF 44 on page 56, when I would have thought we'd be done with the early time period and moved on to the period where he was with PCF 94, the one that O'Neill supposedly later commanded. It's not clear on the timeline when Kerry commanded which boat.

I hope some day O'Neill creates a good timeline of his own. A more chronological presentation of the facts in his book, including the timeline of his own service as well as Kerry's, would have been helpful.

ASPB · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject:

If you think UforC is fractured in some way you really should read Brinkley's hagiography...TofD.
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Mary · Former Member Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

I do think that having Tour of Duty and the one or two books Kerry himself authored in the 1970s would certainly be of interest because O'Neill shows where Kerry contradicts himself in those works at times.

As for finding Unfit for Command to need a little more chronological order and a good timeline, this is just something that I think O'Neill would find useful to know and that his publishers can address in a future edition. It's helpful, constructive feedback, I believe.

Mary · Former Member Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

OH! I just was now looking in the Appendix to Unfit for Command and there's a really good timeline there that shows that Kerry was reassigned to An Thoi in Jan. 1969 after going to Cat Lo. Too bad the book doesn't explain this at all and talks about him moving to Cat Lo one week after going to An Thoi to avoid hazardous duty, then doesn't explain that he was reassigned.

The timeline in the book makes it appear that he was actually only at Cat Lo for two weeks, from being ordered there Dec. 13, 1968 till being reassigned to An Thoi in early Jan. 1969. So I'm confused about the idea that CosDiv 13 at Cat Lo was supposed to be less hazardous than CosDiv 11 at An Thoi. I wonder if he was back in Cos Div 11 when he was reassigned to An Thoi, also.

The timeline in the Appendix also shows Kerry being assigned as OinC for PCF 44 at An Thoi on Dec. 6, 1968. Then it shows Kerry being assigned commander of PCF 94 in early Feb. 1969 after being reassigned to An Thoi.

Anyway, I'm glad O'Neill did include a timeline. Didn't find it till now.

mtboone · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:51 am Post subject: PCF 94 or PCF44

In some units down South and other Divisions, you shared boats when you were not on patrol. You would do a Patrol and the next day someone else would take the boat out on another Patrol while you had time off. It is very difficult to create a time line when nothing was stable or constant. On Navy ships it was common to do a thing called Hot Rack, this is when someone woke you up to stand your watch, he would jump into the same rack (bed) that you just got out of. It was your hopes and prayer that the person you shared your bed with, was of good hygiene and took a shower before he got into the rack. Swift crews did the same with boats so it would get confusing to try and write this in a time frame that stays constant.
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Mary · Former Member Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

I really have to disagree with you about it being hard to provide a timeline. O'Neill provided a very clear timeline in the Appendix. What he failed to do was follow it in the book. This appears to be caused by time constraints and possibly editing that was done by editors other than O'Neill who weren't paying attention to the timeline. The book was sort of rushed out. O'Neill can get around to correcting any lapses in a later edition. i think the fact he says the guy only spent a week in An Thoi and then tries to claim he did this to escape hazardous duty is clearly something he must correct in a later edition or interview because his timeline in the Appendix contradicts him.

There is no reason to excuse erroneous info, and your comments about swift crews changing boats does not have any bearing on the chronology problem I explained, which is that his timeline is clear but the book leaves out facts shown in the timeline and makes an insulting statement that is contradicted by the timeline. It's plain as day what the timeline was if you look at the Appendix.