SwiftVets.com

[Hammer2]

You know, when I reflect on this whole flap about Kerry, I think Kerry is not the whole issue. I think that the true issue is the Big Lie of Vietnam and the false vision of history that has corrupted American politics since then.
There are many still today in American politics today that took advantage of the climate that Kerry and others created who used anti-war rhetoric to catapault themselves into careers in politics. I remember at the time, many people in the "Movement" talking about how the only way to change the "System" was to subvert it from the inside. Look at the current crop of "Leaders" in the Democratic party and trace back their roots to their anti-war days.
To bring this around, I think that the focus should not be just to stop Kerry, but to bring down the entire structure of lies and deceit that have mis-informed Americans the last three decades.
This mis-information is the underpinning of the entire structure of the leftist demonization of America. Many of these mis-guided young people who attack America to day (a la New York) are deriving their distorted perception of America from the history of lies built on Vietnam.
If the foundation of the structure is demolished by the truth, the entire structure will collapse. Maybe then we will finally have real closure to the Vietnam era, and vindication for our noble veterans. My own father included.
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"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Robert Cooper]

John Kerry has always been a devout "Stevensonite" - ie, a Liberal Internationalist

Read: http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8068
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Know the difference between Politics and Mesmeratics - one embraces, propagates and promotes the truth, while the other manipulates it!

[RemodelingGuy]

[d19thdoc]

dfountain3928 wrote on page 1:

[mcknz]

I think you are accurate and not over the top. While Kerry's actions specifically harmed the Vietnam Vets, they did also do great damage to us all as a nation. This is a great point that you make. A scripture comes to mind: "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."

[Tom Poole]

I've got to weigh in. From my view, the terrorists (al qaida, hamas, hesbollah, etc.) have not forgotton and they're not ignorant. They saw what a few charlatans and the cheesy punks they are able to con, can do to a mighty but freedom loving nation. They hope to repeat the damage of 1971 in the same way -- by using our freedoms against us. Kerry would just be icing on the terrorist cake.
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'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2

[Kimmymac]

"over the top?": To quote Barry Goldwater, "Extremism in defense of liberty is not a vice."

But, for what is worth, you are not over the top in calling them as you see them.

In 1971 my big brother came back from Vietnam. He took me to a local mall to buy my mom a Christmas present, and we ran into some of his old high school friends. I was 10, and so proud of my handsome big brother. I really didn't know anything much about Vietnam, but I loved my brother and loved the letters he would occassionally send me from so far away. Anyway, these old "friends" started to verbally harass my brother, and some of the more vicious ones began to call him names and shove him. My brother just shook his head, told them they were wrong, grabbed my hand and walked away.

But to this day I remember the look of hurt and shock on my brother's face. I wanted to cry, just looking at him standing there. Looking back, I realize he stayed close to home in those days, and now I realize why he wasn't seeing to much of his old "friends." He had always been a popular, well-liked guy, and it was strange for him to spend so much time just hanging out with us.

He doesn't talk about those days much, but when he does I just listen. I have heard about him speak about the unbelievable courage of his fellow Marines, and about tragic loss, but I haven't heard him talk about these "atrocities" Kerry spoke of. I have seen him cry when he talks about watching one of his buddies take their last breath, but I haven't heard him tell me about burning villages for the sheer "fun" of it. When my brother tells me these so called atrocities happened, then I will believe it. Until then, I will consider these allegations of atrocities the exaggerations of a pathetic and dangerous ego-maniac.

The idea of Kerry being CinC makes me want to vomit--but what makes me really ill is the idea that to approximately 50% of the American people he is a viable option. God have mercy on us all.

I also guess it explains why I would give 200K to this organization, if I had it.

I wish Kerry would answer a few questions for me because I am honestly confused...how can Kerry claim to be a hero of something he claims was so wrong?

Did Kerry observe any atrocities carried out by the VC, or just by the Americans?

What is it like to be so breathtakingly disloyal? How do you get to be such a well groomed monster--what makes you tick? How does it make you feel, knowing that your taped "testimony" was played to American POW's as part of the enemy's torture?

And I have a son in Iraq. When (and IF) he comes home, will the Kerry-ites call him names? Because it looks like the Kerry-Edwards people are willing to smear the effort (and thereby the soldiers) in Iraq in order to "winwinwin." If my son is taken hostage in Iraq, the enemy can play excerpts of Kerry-Edwards campaign speeches about Iraq to him, in order to demoralize him. How does that make Kerry feel?

How does that make the roughly 50% of Americans that say they are willing to vote for him, feel?

I know this was long and tangential. Sorry, but thanks for listening. If any of you all can ever get Kerry's attention, please ask him those questions for me.

[Kimmymac]

And I must comment on Hammer2's point about the entire culture of myth and disinformation surrounding Vietnam. I think he is absolutely on-point and makes some extremely insightful observations.

Everyone ought to re-read his post, because it is definitely worth thinking about.

What is frightening for me is my belief that these same individuals, along with their ideological heirs, are well on their way to doing the same thing to American soldiers now fighting in Iraq.

[BC]

[BC]

Kimmymac

Thank your brother and your son for me.
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Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country

[USAFBratToo]

In the late 60s and very early 70s I was passionately against our troops being sent to Vietnam and protested at the Oakland Army base almost daily, often with my baby daughter. Early in the 70s Kerry testified about baby killers and atrocities. He, Jane F-- Fonda, and their cronies met with the enemy. Insulted our flag. I grew up on USAF bases (dad was a Lt. Col Ret 1964.) Kerry was saying that my classmates, sweethearts, friends and neighbors - so many of whom were over there - were doing these things. I knew that was a big fat lie. Kerry et al weren't just tryng to stop the war - they were trying to help the VC win. A BIG difference. I knew that any form of anti-war protest by then would be co-opted by the Kerry/Fonda crowd as part of their effort. That stopped me cold.

There should be NO names on that granite wall in DC. But there are, and we will never know how many Kerry and Fonda helped get there.

Hammer2 is right. The radical left kept rolling along, and now they are teaching our youth in schools and colleges all over the US. My son is in JC in Berkeley CA, and will go on to UC Berkeley, as I, and that baby daughter, did. What he is being told about the war by faculty is the Kerry/Fonda line. We fell asleep at the wheel. They took over.

[Hammer2]

[FargoUT]

Wait a minute... I'm quite sick of people using hyperbole to make the case against John Kerry. He holds no animosity towards Vietnam veterans. He is a peace promoter, which apparently also makes you anti-American? John Kerry's made plenty of mistakes, but none of them warrant being called anti-American or unpatriotic. He fought in Vietnam (this is undeniable) and came home to protest against the government's misguided approach to the Vietnam conflict. It was unlike any war we'd ever fought before (the closest thing had been the Pacific battles during WWII). In fact, Congress never declared war on North Vietnam, so it seems absurd to call it a war. I guess we've just gotten used to referring to it as such.

Many vets protested the war. Should we call all vets who protested "anti-American"? Or just the ones running for office? Heck, even John McCain was slandered for his service.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Oh, yah, he's PROVEN his patriotism, he's proven that he bears no animosity toward Vietnam Veterans.

All this uprising against his running for CinC has no foundation at all, right?

Righhhhttt....
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[FargoUT]

Quota for Kerry Talking Points Exceeded