SwiftVets.com

[buffman]

maybe some of that ketchup money is finding it's way into the Nam.
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Never Ever Give Up
America First

[ccr]

Copied from the other thread as per mod....

One very interesting part of the Nightline story....

[Anker-Klanker]

Note that in another, older thread was this link:

http://www.planetsave.com/ViewStory.asp?ID=5254

The VC being interviewed here was clearly indoctrinated to support the Kerry story. But this supposed eye-witness offers conflicts with the ABC story.

Very interesting.

[cipher]

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:34 pm (transcribed from duplicate thread)


I don't see that the VC *are* supporting Kerry's claim. In fact, there are at least 6 contraditions to the events as described by Kerry.

I need to pull this story apart a bit, it'll take a few minutes, as I have to chase down some references.

Basically, the contradictions are:
1) "Numerically superior force" The VC says 20, and they are relatively precise about who and where the 20 came from. That is consistent also with after actions reports, however, there were in excess of 50 RVN marines on the US side, plus the crews and equipment of the Swift boats. That is NOT "numerical superiority"

2) "Intense fire" It seems the intense fire was from the friendlies. The VC were armed with ONE RPG-2 with a B-40 grenade and small arms. That is hardly "intense firepower". The reports of the VC is that they didn't hit anything (hard to hit when you're running).

3) Everyone seems to make a big deal about the wardrobe and apparent age and size of the VC. He was about 26 and dressed in black pajamas. That seems to be a major bone of contention, but shouldn't be.

4) How and where and when he was killed (and he was the ONLY one killed in the attack). The VC shed no new light on this.

5) "weapons cache and supplies captured and destroyed" Flatly denied by the VC. That is a lie on the citation, according to them, no one found the cache, and it still exists today.

6) "Intense automatic weapons fire". The VC state that the 12 man reinforcements and the 8 man home based troops were armed with small arms and ONE B-40. There is no mention of any sort of crew-fired automatic weapon, either an LMG or HMG. It is likely there were AK-47s, however.

I need to look more closely and compare with the four other accounts we have of the incident. One (several, actually!) silver star citations from Kerry, the SPOT reports (there are two), and the other eyewitness Navy officer's op-ed, and UFC.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get this assembled in a few hours, depending on how distracted I get by the locals here.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[cipher]

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:22 pm (transcribed from duplicate thread)

Lt Kerry was OTC (Officer Tactical Command) for that op, which is apparent in the MTSR. He was also CTE (Commander Task Element), who filed the MTSRs cited below. Yes, Kerry wrote the account of his own actions.

The "taste" is basically listed above. If you want to follow along at home, you can read the Market Time SPOT report for 28 Feb 69 here (Thanks again, Navy Wife!):

http://www.swiftboatarchives.com/subnav.tpl

You want documents labled:

281130Z FEB69
281225Z FEB69
281225Z FEB69
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[hanna]

I am forgetting my Swift Boat history.....were there any Swifties injured in this so-called "firefight"? Seems to me there were not, as well as no damage to the boat.

[cipher]

Read the MTSP cited above. PCF-94 had a window blown out by a near-hit with a B-40 according to the report.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[shadowy]

God bless you, John. Angels may fear to tread, but John O'Neill never lets that stop him.

[BenJaxBchFL]

hanna, they were just bad shots,silly.
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The war against terrorism is not that Americans might die rather that we would alter our way of living. If we get to a point where we choose not to go out because of fear, our economy will sink and in the end so will our nation. Vote Bush.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Wow, this just may mark the first time that any Swift/POW has been interviewed by the alphabet networks.

There was just a discussion about this, a couple of days ago - why aren't Swifts/POW's on MSM?

But, Dear Lord.... Nightline? (Please sheath Koppel's Kerry-defending claws and just give John O'Neill the chance to speak.)

Someone on the East coast, please give us progress reports?
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[hanna]

The link to the spot report doesn't work. I could also read the book, sitting right here....just thought a simple yes/no from one that has all this stuff memorized was easier......I was being lazy;/

Personally I think Kerry used his super powers to make himself, the boat and his crew invisible.

[JK]

John should never expect that Nightline will treat him with fairness, their aim is to take these villagers and cast doubt among the viewers that either the SBVT have not been credible or there remains doubt about who has the true facts. His comments will be taken out of context and used to discredit him and give Kerry support.

John should only appear after viewing the program and reviewing the questions that will be presented to prevent a set up, he should also be reviewing all of the film footage to ensure that ABC has not done a cut and edit job to discredit the SBVT or support Kerry.

I will always believe the SBVT account over whatever Kerry or ABC presents, their approach is to take Kerry's Silver Star citation and prove with accounts of the villagers that everything presented is true or there is no longer any evidence to question the citation. As we all know now Kerry is the author of his Silver Star.

How do we know that these villagers were there on that particular date? Why are they credible?

ABC also casts further doubt that someone connected with the SBVT visited the village earlier to gather evidence against Kerry? Looks like ABC is preparing a conspiracy case against the SBVT.

Let's hope that John will come out of Koppel's "friendly" chat without any damage to himself or the SBVT.

JK

[ashter]

I never watch Nightline, what time does it come on?

[Misty]

[eziek]

God bless O'Neill, I don't know how he does it.

Having served in the same AO during the time that Kerry was there I have found that this whole debate is too nuanced for the average civilian, which is a shame.

I returned to Nam in '95 with two other vets from our company to document a specific battle for the purpose of submitting a fallen comrade for the citation that he deserved for more than 30 years.

During this three week visit we not only met with the commanding VC general of the area, but specific regimental officers, and most importantly the actual combatants we faced so many years before.

To say that our eyes were open would be to put it mildly. At the time we were there in '69-'69 we knew what regiments we were fighting but had absolutely no idea of just how many their numbers were nor just how organized and disciplined our enemy were.

Missions were not only well coordinated but also logged by unit secretaries and filed with commanding officers. These were not rogue units taking random advantage of targets of opportunities but well coordinated campaigns. This is important because a serious reporter can easily go to the local veterans club or war museum that are ubiquitous in these villages and seek out VC after action reports. Interview regional officers, and referred to actual combatants, especially if you are willing to contribute to local veteran causes. Since the VC in this AO were assigned to 3 man cells and fought together when assembled they all knew one another intimately. An action involving 12 VC taking that many casualties would have been documented, especially since this is claimed to be a 'new' technique utilized by the Swift Boats. This information would have been critical for the command chain.

As we all have seen throughout this MSM media joke, it appears that serious jornalism has no place for the truth. Just the truth...anything less will represent gross negligence of our collective duty to the remarkable men and woman who are sacrificing their daily comfort, psyche, and lives to allow us to continue our pursuits in safety. Truth is an imperative to continue to attract the best and brightest to sacrifice for a greater good.
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Bravo 3/60th '68-'69