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kimberly
PO2
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
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 Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: Re: The D word |
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| Darkhorse18 wrote: | | Just think how scared Kerry has gotten the male daft age voters are! |
I'd like to comment on this. I have three sons of draft age and I have spent a lot of time debating the election with a group of young adults, college age. I can tell you for certain, that this draft threat has played a huge part in their decision to vote for Kerry. The anti-war message has motivated them and the draft scare is going to get them out to the polls to vote for Kerry when they may not have otherwise bothered.
It seems that my every attempt to explain the SBVT and P.O.W. issues, at first, were replied by these 'kids' with comments that they were in no way interested in anything that happened '35 years ago' and I was admonished to 'shut up'. It was old news and not 'relevant'. As they became more aware of what happened via my posting, their replies were that they praised Kerry's attempts to end the Vietnam war and bring the soldiers home, even and especially since Kerry was willing to negotiate with the enemy. They applauded this effort. Their postition is that if Kerry wins, he will 'do the right thing' and end the war and bring out troups home. And, with Kerry, less likely to be more war and less likely to have a draft even though, to my knowledge, Kerry unlike Bush, has never said HE would not reinstate a draft. Not one of these 'kids' had any interest whatsoever in defending our country. I have been unable to continue this discussion as it seems no matter what information I give them, I believe this phoney 'draft' scare his them running to vote for Kerry. The vote for change tour has, according to them, send these 'fake' draft cards to all attendees/members of vote for a change. The 'fake' cards with a anti-Bush message are further meant to scare them into voting for Kerry. Even the argument I gave for: where do you think the additional 40,000 troops Kerry is going to 'enlist', falls on deaf ears to these 'kids'. I've reached a dead end.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate.
Kimberly |
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fr11
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 154
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:09 am Post subject: Re: The D word |
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| kimberly wrote: | | Darkhorse18 wrote: | | Just think how scared Kerry has gotten the male daft age voters are! |
I'd like to comment on this. I have three sons of draft age and I have spent a lot of time debating the election with a group of young adults, college age. I can tell you for certain, that this draft threat has played a huge part in their decision to vote for Kerry. The anti-war message has motivated them and the draft scare is going to get them out to the polls to vote for Kerry when they may not have otherwise bothered.
It seems that my every attempt to explain the SBVT and P.O.W. issues, at first, were replied by these 'kids' with comments that they were in no way interested in anything that happened '35 years ago' and I was admonished to 'shut up'. It was old news and not 'relevant'. As they became more aware of what happened via my posting, their replies were that they praised Kerry's attempts to end the Vietnam war and bring the soldiers home, even and especially since Kerry was willing to negotiate with the enemy. They applauded this effort. Their postition is that if Kerry wins, he will 'do the right thing' and end the war and bring out troups home. And, with Kerry, less likely to be more war and less likely to have a draft even though, to my knowledge, Kerry unlike Bush, has never said HE would not reinstate a draft. Not one of these 'kids' had any interest whatsoever in defending our country. I have been unable to continue this discussion as it seems no matter what information I give them, I believe this phoney 'draft' scare his them running to vote for Kerry. The vote for change tour has, according to them, send these 'fake' draft cards to all attendees/members of vote for a change. The 'fake' cards with a anti-Bush message are further meant to scare them into voting for Kerry. Even the argument I gave for: where do you think the additional 40,000 troops Kerry is going to 'enlist', falls on deaf ears to these 'kids'. I've reached a dead end.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate.
Kimberly |
Sorry to say, Kimberly, but it sounds like these kids are too far gone to reach with logic. They would have voted for Kerry whether the draft was an issue or not. I just hope your sons are smart enough not to fall for these lies.
I'm 21 myself and have discussed this issue with a lot of my peers. The only ones who fall for this "draft scare" are the hardcore lefties and the kids who don't care about politics. The hardcore lefties were going to vote for Kerry anyway, and I highly doubt the ones who don't care about politics will vote.
It's a good strategy by Kerry (if you consider lying a strategy), but I don't think it will work any better than his comment about Cheney's daughter. |
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minivanmom
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:47 am Post subject: Draft |
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Hi SwiftVets, You are the best!
Please forgive me if this was already posted somewhere else.
There was something on Little Green Footballs and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet. They used the Internet Archives "Wayback Machine" to find something that used to be posted on Kerry's website and was later pulled. The entry on LGFB's was dated 10/7/04. I find the line about "mandatory service plan for high school students..." most interesting!
It included the following:
Engage 200,000 Americans A Year In “Service For College”
John Kerry and John Edwards will offer a simple deal to hundreds of thousands of America’s young people: if you will serve for two years in one of America’s toughest and most important jobs, we will cover four years of tuition at a typical public university.
And here is the Wayback Machine’s cache of John Kerry’s web site from earlier this year, outlining a mandatory service plan for high school students: John Kerry for President - A New Era of National Service.
As President, John Kerry will have the courage to lead and call on all Americans to make our nation stronger. Whether it is protecting America from the threats of terrorism or addressing the problems we have at home, America’s new challenges will not be met by the same old answers of big government or big tax cuts for the wealthy. John Kerry will call on all Americans - tapping into the idealism and ingenuity of Americans and putting it to work on building a safer, stronger, and more secure nation. Americans already make an enormous difference in their communities, volunteering, in Boys and Girls Clubs or homeless shelters. Many Americans do full time service. John Kerry believes that in these times, we need to bolster these efforts with a nationwide commitment to national service. Whether it is a Summer of Service for our teenagers, helping young people serve their country in return for college, or the Older Americans in Service program, John Kerry’s plan will call on every American of every age and every background to serve. John Kerry will set a goal of one million Americans a year in national service within the next decade.
John Kerry Outlines Plan to Require Service for High School Students
Part of 100 days Plan to Enlist One Million Americans in National Service A Year
On September 11th, 2001, America experienced the most terrible and deadly attack in its history. John Kerry believes we need to think big and do better and get more young Americans serving the nation.
As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service. |
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Steve02C5
Ensign
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Plantersville, TX
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | If there would be a draft, it would come in a Kerry Administration, not Bush's. Kerry is the one announcing how he will add 40,000 troops and double Special Forces and all. Add to that the number of Active Duty military that would leave the services if he won. So, just where does he think he'd get all these additional people to fill the military?
Like his economic plan, his numbers and claims just don't add up. |
I agree Lew; but, why doesn't Bush and the 'Pubs state this more often, the debates would've been the best place to do so, along with the fact the most recent attempt to reinstate a draft was started by Dem. Charlie Rangel - Bush missed this point also. I'm sooooo confused as to why the 'Pubs are doing such a poor job in answering Kerry's blatant LIES - they seem to be relying on FOX to point these facts out to the public.
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Cazador
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
Dig deeper into the MTV "Rock the Vote" website and you will find the Alliance for Security. Care to guess who is involved with this group?
Bobby Muller 
Also, MTV lists events where young adults can gather. Suggest vets also go to these events and very calmly talk to these young kids about why the draft doesn't work in today's military and what scare tactics are being used against them -- where the bias is coming from.
Cazador |
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CeeBeeBratPH
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
Location: West Slope Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Last weekend my wife and I were at a fund raiser for the local soup kitchen. While there we got to talking with a friend of ours who said she was scared to death that the draft will be reinstated by Bush to continue the Iraq agenda. Her only child (boy) graduates this next year from high school. She said she is definately voting sKerry. When we explained to her that with sKerry at the helm, troop morale will plummet and and also reenlistments and thus the draft will have to happen to field a force of significance. The light bulb went off and she got it. Said she will now vote Bush so her son won't get drafted, he can choose to serve if he wants to.
So, it can work, just clearly communicate the lies and falshoods that sKerry is putting forth. The fence sitters can be shown the truth and the truth will set us ALL free! |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | they were in no way interested in anything that happened '35 years ago' and I was admonished to 'shut up'. It was old news and not 'relevant'. |
A simple reminder, those that forget their history are bound to repeat it.
Do a search here for the draft, there have been numerous threads before showing links to the only draft bill proposed lately, proposed and signed on to by only Democrats. Just last week, the bill was finally defeated in Congress by Republicans!
Your young people may not want to listen, but print out copies of Rep. Charlie Rangles (D. NY) draft proposal and articles showing the Republicans defeating it last week, then ask them to please find any bill proposed by Republicans trying to reinstitute the draft. They may not respond immediately, but you might plant some seeds to force them start thinking for themselves.
As for the Republicans not making it better known, I agree. I wish they did.
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jim_nyc
Seaman
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Bush is making a tactical error by not addressing this more forcefully.
He should literally make an oval office address stating in no uncertain terms that as long as he is president there will be no draft.
I spoke last night with a father and son (18+). The son seemed determined to vote for Bush and the father was using the bogus draft scare and I'm sure he knew it was bogus because it was his son that was the enlightening him about the phony emails.
At the very least the RNC should release a nation wide commercial that shows Kerry talking about a draft and his idea to add 40k to troop strength and then Bush simply stating he won't reinstate a draft.
The Bushies are ignoring this at their peril.
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NEED SOME WOOD? |
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KWJams
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Jim_NYC
That is exactly right!
They need a national ad ran that takes every bogus claim made by the dem's and one by one list them and debunk them.
They need the President to do it though. Any stand in surrogate would not have the same impact as the President would have looking straight into the camera and saying there are no secret plans for a draft -- there are no secret plans to keep invalids in wheel chairs -- etc, etc... |
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MrJapan
PO1
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Chiba, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hey all.. it's me again 
Like I previously posted... 1 of the MAIN reasons I didn't re-enlist was because Klinton was elected. This statement is in noway trying to defame or insult any Democrats on this site. The Dems that are here today obviously see the problem we have facing the future of our country...Not only our freedoms, but trying to give freedom to countries that, without us, would not have a chance at gaining freedom.
I look back now and I see that Klinton was a pussycat compaired to what sKerry is... and can/will do. I've actually learned a LOT about history within the last 30 or so years (thanks to sKerry.... thank you John... we DO need to know about the history we never saw before, thanks to you)...
If this piece of self serving trash is elected, what will happen to our FREE country? Can you imagine?
Ok... My point is that the 'minor' election problem with Klinton in 1992 saw a large % of people in the military not resign (re-enlist/comission) because Klinton was elected. I believe that it will be 10 fold, if not more if sKerry is elected! At least 50% of the armed forces today will get out, IF sKerry is elected..... and this pretty much matches what previous posts have said in a roundabout way....
What I imagine is that IF sKerry reinstates the draft... that the people who actually show up for duty will be in a position they don't want to be in... they are not the type that will die for their country (for the people of freedom, let alone for someone that's NOT American)...maybe cannot cope with the stress of being 'in the field of battle'... will be EASILY broken down by the enemy if captured....
Think people! It take a person that is WILLING to die for their country to sign up for the armed forces so that it will be effective... NOT some joe/Jane blow off the street that will do anything for money...
Man.... I am NOT a debater... and I don't know how to change peoples minds effecttively... (Now that I mentioned that.... it's funny... all the people I know to be good debaters, are LIBS.... again, no offence..)...
Anyway, I hope that we can win this time, but I think that they will train more powerfully to win next time... eventually, they will win and we will be in a dire situation with our Constutution, Bill of Rights, and the Amendments of our country...... WHEN that happens,, I pray to God that the 'sheeple' will see that the sheep herder is only leading them to the slaughterhouse.
Sorry for the babbling...
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CTW
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| KWJams wrote: | Jim_NYC
That is exactly right!
They need a national ad ran that takes every bogus claim made by the dem's and one by one list them and debunk them.
They need the President to do it though. Any stand in surrogate would not have the same impact as the President would have looking straight into the camera and saying there are no secret plans for a draft -- there are no secret plans to keep invalids in wheel chairs -- etc, etc... |
Jim kwjams: I am hoping President Bush will have a strong speech to the American people to set the record staight. And as you propose, go through each and every charge. He needs to do it maybe even twice and then the surgates and advisors can follow up with the OIM.
Let's hope the best is yet to come. CTW
Never Ever Kerry |
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MrJapan
PO1
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Chiba, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've actually learned a LOT about history within the last 30 or so years |
Sorry... I meant within the last 3 months ABOUT the last 30 or so years
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USAF
31 TFW (307th/309th)
Homestead AFB (until Andrew took care of it, 1992)
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
Texas Army NG 13E FDC
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PrinceLazar
Seaman
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 164
Location: Daley's tainted lands
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject: Deliberate strategy by Karl Rove?? |
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My guess is that Karl Rove has told Bush to let Kerry rant for a day more about the draft before Bush STRONGLY addresses this as a pure scare.
This will achieve two things:
*Focus the young voters on anything Bush says more attentively and when he in a series of speeches again reinforces that draft will not happen, they will also hear more of his other policies. Kerry is essentially promoting Bush for more airtime among the young swingvoters.
*Make Kerry waste precious time on putting out this draft mesage instead of addressing other issues where he might be stronger. And in the meantime the clock is ticking, poll poll poll poll poll poll...
You got it.
There is NO way we would even have the resources and capacities to host a draft in this country and this is another self-inflicted wound by Kerry upon himself, like his Purples..
I think the polls in 4-5 days will have a distiance of 5-7 points in Bush's favor, mostly thanks to Kerry..
In these days, Kerry is one of Bush's most valuable asets, while Mc Cain and BOR's values are being depreciated by the hour..
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MrJapan
PO1
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Chiba, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Oh... 1 more thing... I think, to be fair, there should be a 'bot' to block IPs after the first vote... (talking about the poll bots that are overrunning the polls... that the DEMs are sayin the Repubs are doing..)
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USAF
31 TFW (307th/309th)
Homestead AFB (until Andrew took care of it, 1992)
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
Texas Army NG 13E FDC
BTRY B 3-133 Arty |
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MrJapan
PO1
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Chiba, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Deliberate strategy by Karl Rove?? |
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| PrinceLazar wrote: | My guess is that Karl Rove has told Bush to let Kerry rant for a day more about the draft before Bush STRONGLY addresses this as a pure scare.
This will achieve two things:
*Focus the young voters on anything Bush says more attentively and when he in a series of speeches again reinforces that draft will not happen, they will also hear more of his other policies. Kerry is essentially promoting Bush for more airtime among the young swingvoters.
*Make Kerry waste precious time on putting out this draft mesage instead of addressing other issues where he might be stronger. And in the meantime the clock is ticking, poll poll poll poll poll poll...
You got it.
There is NO way we would even have the resources and capacities to host a draft in this country and this is another self-inflicted wound by Kerry upon himself, like his Purples..
I think the polls in 4-5 days will have a distiance of 5-7 points in Bush's favor, mostly thanks to Kerry..
In these days, Kerry is one of Bush's most valuable asets, while Mc Cain and BOR's values are being depreciated by the hour.. |
I kinda have the same feeling.... BUT, I also feel that Bush is relying on faith/fate to run it through...He IS a good man (Bush)... but maybe he doesn't understand the power of Satan and who he (Satan) can encourage...
I personally don't think sKerry is Satan, but.... can a selfish, self loathing, self centered person be compaired?
3rd Debate..... Last question;
Bush said, "I listen"....
need I say more?
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USAF
31 TFW (307th/309th)
Homestead AFB (until Andrew took care of it, 1992)
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
Texas Army NG 13E FDC
BTRY B 3-133 Arty |
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