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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:13 am Post subject: |
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Thomas Oliphant is what Howie Carr accurately describes as one of the "Bowtied bumkissers of the Boston Globe." I find him disturbing to watch, as he has the most feminine mannerisms and tone to his voice. It is like watching an old woman. I was stunned to find out he is married.
Back in 1997, Oliphant complained bitterly about the coverage afforded Princess Dianna vs. that of Mother Teresa; how the coverage was higly imbalanced Oliphant article
I wonder what he would have to say about the imbalance of coverage in the SBVT/Kerry debacle, something HE is an active participant in!
As proof that his is just a shill for Kerry, he wrote "The Kerry I know" in the American Prospect online
Which is a nice kiss on the lips for Kerry from Oliphant.
He also says he was behind (no jokes please!) Kerry when he threw his/someone else's medals/ribbons/whatever over the fence Oliphant With Kerry
Of course, one has to view the story with the understanding that Oliphant would probably do anything for Kerry. |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Navy wife wrote: | | Norman Rogers wrote: | | Navy wife -- that's the point. Rassmann MUST have been rescued within the first fifteen minutes. I'd like to ask him what he observed as he was drying off FOR THE NEXT HOUR or so. Did he see hostile fire then? Did he fire back? |
You raise an excellent question! |
Finally tonite on Hannity O'Neill mentioned the "suppression fire" as being the only "fire" during that incident -- aside from the mine -- that's been left out discussions lately and I think it needs to be brought back in. One could see Rassmann coming up (up and under the water or whatever) and hearing fire and assuming it was enemy -- when it was suppression fire... Tho one would have thought that during the "next hour or so" he might have overheard someone say there weren't any enemies shooting.... |
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DavidS
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 43
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:55 am Post subject: PBS News Hour |
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I also watched the News Hour O'Neill/Oliphant interview this evening and would second evrything said so far.
Oliphant also kept bringing up Nixon and his desperate desire to get something on Kerry and O'Neill's involvment in all of that.
Earlier in the program they showed a clip of Kerry speaking that he was going on the attack and turning into the enemy as he did in Vietnem. He also accused Bush of using SBVFT to do his dirty work. Of course he did not mention Michael Moore and George Soros as being his fronts.
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JK
PO3
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:08 am Post subject: PBS interview with John O'niell |
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We often see that lawyers and detectives use a time line to prove their case to the jury, perhaps a time line presentation on the facts in Kerry's case will dispell the misinformation or doubts that Kerry media people use to change the focus... time line can start from the day Kerry enters the military to the day he leaves (4 months?) and picks up on his post Vietnam activities, if the time line approach is not the most effective use another one to help the media and general public who will not read Unfit for Command or listen to John O'Neill.
I also dislike the idea where journalists come to the aid of Kerry, Kerry himself or his paid aides should be on the program defending him. Aren't journalists supposed to be unbiased and just present the facts???
JK |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Beldar wrote: | A commenter on my blog just made this point < http://www.beldar.org/beldarblog/2004/08/wapo_reports_on.html#c1927654 >:
| Quote: | There's more to this story...
I just watched O'Neill and Tom Oliphant on Newshour (O'Neill was devastatingly competent, Oliphant -- smarmy and supercillious), and I learned something new which bears on this discussion.
O'Neill said it took AN HOUR AND A HALF to rescue the 3 boat -- during which time they took NO HOSTILE FIRE. This is the first I've heard of the actual timeframes involved.
Well, we have a couple of issues with this new (to me) information:
1. Now all five boats were on-scene for an hour and a half and no casualties from small arms fire were recorded and there were no reports of bullet damage to the boats.
2. All of Rassmann's claims to date have him under fire WHILE HE WAS IN THE WATER. But, by all accounts Kerry picked Rassmann up about five minutes or so after the 3 boat was mined. So I'd like the next guy to interview Rassmann to ask him what he observed as he was drying himself off FOR THE NEXT HOUR AND TWENTYFIVE MINUTES. Was there hostile fire then? Did Rassmann duck? Did Rassmann fire back?
Enquiring minds want to know. |
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Beldar scores....again!!!!!
Wanna bet Lt. Rassman takes a LONG vacation? |
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republicanveteran
Commander
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 333
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| His paid aids are running for the tall grass. Didn't show up for Hannity or Scarborough |
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Herb
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Norman Rogers wrote: | | Navy wife -- that's the point. Rassmann MUST have been rescued within the first fifteen minutes. I'd like to ask him what he observed as he was drying off FOR THE NEXT HOUR or so. Did he see hostile fire then? Did he fire back? |
I wish I could locate the transcript but Rassman was listening to O'Dell's account (pretty sure it was O'Dell) and when asked a direct question he started claiming "35 year memory fades" and then went into a personal attack.
Now, Rassman doesn't CLAIM their was fire anymore (since about a week, check me if I am wrong) and they are PLAYING Rassman's quote from the campaign movie.
I think Rassman realized he didn't know and now won't tell a MATERIAL lie for Kerry even though he supports him.
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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You know, perhaps Rassman is correct and he did hear fire - OUTGOING.
Can anyone query the folks who were there to find out if they let loose some supressive fire at the outset? You know, about the time Sandusky rammed the throttles forward and cranked the wheel hard over, tossing Rassman over the side.
Reason I ask is that I have this visual of the 3 boat taking a hit and the other boats (except Kerry's) moving in to help, all the time cutting trees and bushes on both sides, just in case. Shoot, bullets are cheap and its always better to give than receive.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:19 am Post subject: |
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GoophyDog,
I wasn't there of course, but I did listen to O'Neill and indeed OUTGOING fire was indeed probably what he heard. According to O'Neill (Hannity Show and elsewhere), it was SOP for swiftboats to open up on the embankments of a river in case of a mine or boobytrap because the VC were very fond of such ambushes. When the mine blew up under PCF-3, the rest except for PCF-94 (Kerry's boat) opened up on the embankments. The fire didn't last long, but it did happen...according to O'Neill who has interviewed the survivors.
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-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Goophy,
your conclusions are spot on.
Everyone, on both sides of the debate agree they opened up after the mine went off under PCF-3.
From my year in country and having been involved in 3 separate command detonated minings it was; 1st a natural reaction; and 2nd SOP to deal with potential RPG and Small arms follow-up.
Just another definition of H&I fire. Keep Charlie's head down if you can!
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| republicanveteran wrote: | | His paid aids are running for the tall grass. Didn't show up for Hannity or Scarborough |
Hannity said that. It was a busy day for O'Neill and the rest, obviously. He had to break off his Hannity radio interview, but returned briefly. And Hannity already was saying that pro-Kerry had cancelled for the tv show with Colmes. This must not have worked out the way they thought it would. Turns out, the issue became not Thurlow, as Oliphant tried to introduce at least twice, but how that wording came to be on his citation; how Kerry managed to spread his stink, as it were, all up and down the chain of command, by playing at being screenwriter in the middle of a war zone.
I thought Oliphant was interesting as an example of how incompetent one can be and still hold a very high-paying gig with the leftwing 'mainstream'. He seemed to think his approach, almost like playing a game in a courtroom before the judge threatens to pull his license to practice, was convincing. I thought it was fascinating that he thought some viewers would think he was presenting a better case than O'Neill. You got those 'hgih standards'. Some standard. It's a standard that takes eight affidavits (i.e. I assume all eight sworn under oath) which substantially agree and then claims it inferior to the testimony of one who has at least five accounts of what happened in those moments, and another who already has been caught in a couple of whoppers, talking about a 'firefight' where the enemy was kind enough not to hit ANYONE on the four boats bunched together that remained, or put a single bullet into the boats, a relatively few feet from shore. The ambushers obviously were very skilled at intentionally not hiiting a darned thing. Those PCF guys really lucked out. An intense firefight where not a single round hit anyone on the boats, in the water, or the boats themselves. These mystery VC should be in the Olympics or something, for being able to fire for as long as Kerry says they did and intentionally not hit one single thing. But 'high standards'. It's a 'standard', in short, that no one criticizing Kerry could ever exceed.
There was one thing. Kerry's shrapnel. I hadn't heard that. Is he claiming he still has shrapnel from the rice explosion? I thought everything was removed. Dd he have some metal shard surgically implanted at some point? Would he pass a 'wand' test? Mr. Kerry - would you submit to being 'wanded'? |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:57 am Post subject: |
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NO! I believe the claim is for shrapnel in his leg. That wound occurred on 20 February 69 and is not contested by anyone.
It's possible that he still carries a little shrapnel. I also do. For small pieces from a RPG or Mortar it was often easier to just leave it alone rather than open up the wound for removal of shrapnel.
Most of mine has worked itself out over the years but I do still have a small piece in my solar plexis that won't work it's way out through all the accumulated fat.  Funny thing is, it was self-inflicted with a M-79 and I didn't ask for a PH for it!
It shows up quite nicely on x-rays, catscans, and MRIs. I need to tell the doctors in advance to keep them from going nuts.
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Son Of The Godfather
Captain
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 540
Location: Camarillo, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Of course Kerry has shrapnel in his leg... Of that I have no doubt.
The fact that he says "look at my leg" translates to "stop scrutinizing the documents."
SOTG
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Herb
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | NO! I believe the claim is for shrapnel in his leg. That wound occurred on 20 February 69 and is not contested by anyone.
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Is this the second wound (chronologically)? #1 and #3 are admitted as self-inflicted but if you read the book "Unfit for Command" you will see that even #2 there are rumors he again used an M-79 incompetently.
This is not the slam dunk of the other two so it's not wise to claim that ALL three were self-inflicted due to negligence but I am getting he can't get anyone to say they saw fire that day or that he didn't shoot himself again.
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one more captins mast
LCDR
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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So what I got capitans mast,
Sorry to say due to &&55$$#22 , I ended up in the
Qua Viet "creek" river? and with the stuff I had on
which should have been on Rass/ing/us , there is
NO SWIMMING YOU SINK, how deep was the water.
could he touch bottom and kick off and stay up as
had he been under for 5 min he would mostlikly be
on the wall or brain dead then so, what ever has happend after
that to his brain.
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