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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | HAHAAHAHHAHAHA!!!! You have NO facts! I have not seen one fact from any of you.
This is where you say - "Here is a fact. You are a dumbass liberal idiot."
I am not a Kerry supporter, but in fact a person searching for information. I am an undecided voter. You people havce nothing to offer other than blind loyalty to Bush and every other Republican. It is sad. |
No Kyle you're just a useful fool for Bush Supporters. Rational Democrats will visit this site, read your drivel, and vote for Bush just to avoid being associated with people of your ilk.
Kind Regards
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Okay,
| Quote: | | Now, how do you know they are there? Where is the evidence? |
I do not know where they are. Just my opinion. I do believe that two rounds of MWD were discovered (i.e., one mustard gas, one sarin gas). That is WMD. To me it doesn't have to be a certain number that has to be discovered (i.e. stockpile) for it to be WMD. Iraq is a country about the size of California, with plenty of open spaces and buildings/complexes/underground complexes yet to be checked out and/or uncovered. People were screaming that there was no WMD discovered on the first day of the war. Things like this sometimes take time. Even in Europe, Asia and the Pacific, they are still discovering buried live bombs from WWII. Only time will tell as to if there is or was WMD in Iraq, or 'if' it was transferred to Syria or Iran.
| Quote: | | Fact - We are actually down 1.5 million jobs since Bush took office and more than 7 million off his estimates from 2002. |
Depends on which website you go to, and which set of figures and statitics you choose to believe. Personally, I see the nation's economy on the rise, people are getting jobs, and there is plenty of work for people that are willing to work. Of course, many of those people do not want to take positions because of the work involved or the pay level, but if you don't have a job, and you need money to survive, work at a fast food joint until you can find the job you really want! The only people that are quoting numbers are those who are anti-Bush and have hate-filled agendas.
| Quote: | | Fact - The tax cut was for the wealthy, not the middle class. Middle class got almost nothing. |
Actually, the entire portion of the tax paying public in the USA got tax cuts proportional to their income and the amount of taxes they paid in. If you paid more, as in the 'wealthy' you are talking about, they got more in tax cuts. The middle class got tax cuts in proportion to what they paid in, and the people in our nation that paid no taxes at all, got no tax cuts! I see nothing wrong with that!
Our nation isn't a socialist or communist nation (yet), so therefore it is illegal according to our Constution and laws to take from the 'wealthy' (i.e. rich) and give to the poor![/b]
| Quote: | | Fact - It is a group of subsidies for huge corporations and bad for consumers - see your gas station for proof. |
The energy policy proposed by the Bush Administration is currently stalled in Congress. The House of Representatives voted for it, and the Senate voted it down, so it went back to committee for revisions. When it is revised, it will go back to the House, then to the Senate.
There are many factors to consider when talking about the high cost of gasoline, and the major one is that the US hasn't built any refineries since 1971. In that time, some have closed, some have burned down, and many are technologically restricted as to how much they can produce.
No matter how low the price of a barrel of oil is, or how many barrels we can deliver to the refineries, they can only produce a certain amount, and they are currently strained and putting out all that they can. Demand of product not only in the US, but in rapidly developing nations like China and others are what is raising the cost of a barrel of oil. The more demand for a product, the higher that product will cost, espically if the product is in short supply, as is the supply of refined crude into gasoline.
Of course, all of us want to see lower gas prices, but if you look at the cost of a gallon of gas vs. the cost of living pay scale, we are paying almost the same amount as we have been paying for the last thirty years. Look at many areas of the world where they are paying two or three times what we are paying just for one liter of gas!
| Quote: | | Fact - 50 cent tax increase is a lie the Bush campaign is spreading about Kerry |
I do believe that Senator John Kerry did propose and try to push through a bill for his in the Senate. John Kerry has always been for higher taxes, as are most of the Democrats/liberals in Congress. No surprise here! And not a lie!
| Quote: | | Fact - No Child Left Behind is an unfunded mandate that is actually causing more teachers to be fired and classes to be eliminated. |
I haven't seen any proof of what you say. What I do see is many states tightening up their budgets for their educational systems, and also many states with severe problems within their educational systems that are causing teachers to be fired and classes eliminated. But this has been happening for at least 12-15 years now in many states and school systems around the nation.
| Quote: | | Yet to be determined - Unconsitutional and an attack on civil liberties |
Simply only your opinion! I have seen no court in our nation including the Supreme Court as of yet giving any rulings stating that this is Unconstitutional. And the same type so called 'attacks' on civil liberties were happening before 9/11. It's just that since 9/11 and the passing of this Act, incidents are covered and reported more in the media by those with hidden and open biased agendas. Accidents within the law and by law enforcement/Judicial agencies happen, and have been happening since our nation was created.
The act was created to deal with terrorism in our nation, and does it extremely well. We haven't had any attacks within our nation since 9/11, and I hope to God it stays that way. If there are incidents where innocent people get treated unfairly or unjust, the system takes care of it, and if the person or person(s) feel that they did not get their due justice, then they can always sue for relief.
| Quote: | | Yet to be determined - Cheney is a crook with his hands in the cookie jar. Fact - Hallibuton engaged in bribery while he was CEO |
Hell, all politicians are liars and to a certain amount crooks. They work for us, take our money for themselves and their pet projects, and yet they normally do what they want, and do not pay any attention to what the public actually want! There are crooks within our government from the local level, to the county level, state level and federal level, democrat and republican, conservative and liberal. Our system isn't perfect, never has been, never will be! But it's better than most nations in the rest of the world. And what you are falsely accusing hasn't been proven, so until proof comes forth, it is simply your opinion!
| Quote: | | FACT - Bush was and lied about it. |
So! Who hasn't lied about something in their past? We already know that most politicians lie! I've done things in my past that I've lied about at one time or another. Of course, that doesn't make it right, but it's something that damn near every human being does at one time or another. Have you always told the truth about everything all your life?
| Quote: | | Fact - over half of the benefit goes to 3300 families with worth over 17 million. None of the benefit goes to people with less than 750,000. |
Again, this depends on which site you go to, which numbers and documentation is used. These taxes should be repealed, and made illegal. But as your comment is just your opinion, so this is mine!
Happy now?
War Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I am not a Kerry supporter, but in fact a person searching for information. I am an undecided voter. You people havce nothing to offer other than blind loyalty to Bush and every other Republican. It is sad. |
I wish I had a dollar for everytime I've hears someone say, "I am not a ______ supporter, but in fact a person searching for information. I am an undecided voter." Then they always precede to attack all those that do not believe like they do! Always!
If you can discuss issues and debate topics without insults, snide comments, calling people names, and false accusations, then people might listen to you, debate you, discuss the issues honestly with you, and give you the information you claim that you seek. If you can't do that, then you deserve to get back the same hate and disrespect that you yourself are dishing out. 
War Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | I am not a Kerry supporter, but in fact a person searching for information. I am an undecided voter. You people havce nothing to offer other than blind loyalty to Bush and every other Republican. It is sad. |
So far , you're batting a 1000. The first thing you do is ignore the part of the mission statement that doesn't suit your purpose.
That tells me what your agenda is and makes your above statement an outright lie. You ask no questions about Kerry at all. You're not seeking info at all. You're here to spread your version of the truth as perverted as it is.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Saint
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| It would appear that some of these "Swift Boaters" hit their heads. What a disgrace to the US Military they are. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It would appear that some of these "Swift Boaters" hit their heads. What a disgrace to the US Military they are. |
Wow! Another great pearl of wisdom! I am so impressed with your thinking and the fact that you are able to summon great comments like this one all by yourself! Amazing!
War Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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Saint
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| War Dog wrote: | | Quote: | | It would appear that some of these "Swift Boaters" hit their heads. What a disgrace to the US Military they are. |
Wow! Another great pearl of wisdom! I am so impressed with your thinking and the fact that you are able to summon great comments like this one all by yourself! Amazing!
War Woof! |
What theater of combat did you visit Dog?  |
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kyleparr
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Kudos to you War Dog for replying with intellect.
My insult was to the group. Do you really believe this group is looking for truth or just a pro-Bush org?
I find the Republicans and the Democrats repulsive, but I find the Republican pundits to be very self-righteous and yet very dishonest. Why is it OK for Bush to lie but not Clinton? Why is it OK for Bush to whore for contributions but not Clinton? Why is this administrations' behavior OK?
I only know of one shell with Sarin - they said enough to kill 15 people. Hardly a WMD
Corporate profits are up 62 percent and real wages are down .6 percent. We are down 1.5 million jobs according to the Burea of Labor Statistics. People that were programmers do not want to be burger flippers. You lost me at hate filled, as that is just silly talk.
The tax cut was not an even proportional cut. That is not how it worked. The graduated income tax is Constitutional.
The reason the refineries are overseas is to avoid regulation. Oil company profits are currently at an all time high. Crude oil prices are double what they were two years ago. The oil companies have no desire to increase demand.
John Kerry proposed the gas tax 10 years ago. About the time George was coming out of his alcoholic haze.
Call your local school system and talk to five teachers and administrators. I have called and talked with several.
Ask Jose Padilla if he can rely on the American justice system. under the Enemy Combatants action, even American citizens accused as enemy combatants by the executive branch are not entitled to due process. Scary ****. You cannot see anyone, talk to a lwayer, or even get a Writ of Habeas Corpus.
So it is OK to lie and steal if you are ???? Please fill in the reason you are excusing it. Where were you on lynching Bill Clinton? Check out the email trail now forming between Cheney and the Pentagon.
So, once again, lying is ok. If I drive drunk, get arrested and convicted, and lie it is ok? If I get head in the Oval Office, not ok?
Why should they be repealed and made illegal? The numbers are very clear cut. This was a tax break for the "mega upper class." - David Brooks, The Weekly Standard |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | Kudos to you War Dog for replying with intellect.
My insult was to the group. Do you really believe this group is looking for truth or just a pro-Bush org?
I find the Republicans and the Democrats repulsive, but I find the Republican pundits to be very self-righteous and yet very dishonest. Why is it OK for Bush to lie but not Clinton? Why is it OK for Bush to whore for contributions but not Clinton? Why is this administrations' behavior OK?
I only know of one shell with Sarin - they said enough to kill 15 people. Hardly a WMD
Corporate profits are up 62 percent and real wages are down .6 percent. We are down 1.5 million jobs according to the Burea of Labor Statistics. People that were programmers do not want to be burger flippers. You lost me at hate filled, as that is just silly talk.
The tax cut was not an even proportional cut. That is not how it worked. The graduated income tax is Constitutional.
The reason the refineries are overseas is to avoid regulation. Oil company profits are currently at an all time high. Crude oil prices are double what they were two years ago. The oil companies have no desire to increase demand.
John Kerry proposed the gas tax 10 years ago. About the time George was coming out of his alcoholic haze.
Call your local school system and talk to five teachers and administrators. I have called and talked with several.
Ask Jose Padilla if he can rely on the American justice system. under the Enemy Combatants action, even American citizens accused as enemy combatants by the executive branch are not entitled to due process. Scary @*$!. You cannot see anyone, talk to a lwayer, or even get a Writ of Habeas Corpus.
So it is OK to lie and steal if you are ???? Please fill in the reason you are excusing it. Where were you on lynching Bill Clinton? Check out the email trail now forming between Cheney and the Pentagon.
So, once again, lying is ok. If I drive drunk, get arrested and convicted, and lie it is ok? If I get head in the Oval Office, not ok?
Why should they be repealed and made illegal? The numbers are very clear cut. This was a tax break for the "mega upper class." - David Brooks, The Weekly Standard |
So, what is your point Mr. Uncommitted? 
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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kyleparr
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:49 am Post subject: |
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My point is that I do not think Bush is a man that needs to be reelected. I am really torn becuase I do no know that much about Kerry and I am not a huge proponent of the Democratic agenda.
I voted for Bush in 2000, with him telling me he was a moderate. Well, I think we can all agree that he is not moderate at all and that his agenda is driven by right-wing idealogues. The fact that I am disappointed in his education programs, his stance on womens rights, his treatment of the world community, his abuse of executive power, and his constant lying leaves me to seek alternatives. Kerry is the only one I see.
No, I came to this site becuase of this groups self-promotion about wanting their picture removed from the TV commercial. Then I read the mission which stated that they were searching for truth. Well, they aren't. They are bashing Kerry.
Now, from what I can gather, ithey are mad about things Kerry did 35 years ago. Well, I am less concerned with his actions back then, while Bush was partying in Alabama, dancing drunk on tables, and getting his dad's friends elected to the senate, than I am about the here and now.
Veterans benfits are being cut by this administration. They are talking about the draft again. We unilaterally attacked a country. the same people running the war are the ones that sold all of the services to Iraq. My environment is being trashed along with my kids schools.
Folks, Vietnam was a bad war. It was a bad idea. It was un-*******-necessary. If Kerry said that, good for him. If you got your feelings hurt, too bad for you. That has nothing to do with 35 years later.
****! Bush was a drunken rich kid with no sense of duty. What makes him do damn great? That is what I want to know. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Well Kyle,
Would it be a fair assessment to say that you may not be pro-Kerry but you ar definitely anti-Bush?
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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kyleparr
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely. I am currently anti-Bush, but am willing to listen to people who can factually dispel my beliefs.
I voted for Bush in 2000. I thought he was a moderate. He told me he was. Well, that is obviously not true. His actions over the past three years have been to serve corporate interests and to salve the religious extremists in the US, the evangelicals. He has crushed the environment, padded the pockets of the untra rich, continued his friendship and support of Ken Lay, never proven he showed up from April 72 to October 72 in the guard, and done nothing but attack anyone that does not share his beliefs.
Does it scare any of you that his staffers outed a CIA agent in the field because her husband told people that they were lying about one of the reasons to go to war? Does it bother you that you can be delared and "enemy combatant" and be thrown in jail indefinately without any due process? Does it bother you that Bush has set up "Free Speech Zones" to cordon off protestors and prevent the media from talking to them, and arresting the people if they leave their area? How about the fact that they can get secret search warrants that require only "special" judges to sign and do not have to ever be disclosed?
You need to really look at what is going on, and then decide if you really want to support George Bush. I think we really need a third party. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I do not know much about Kerry and hope to learn a lot here |
With this said in another thread and seeing what the same poster titled this thread, me thinks I smell a rat. What could he possibly want to learn from "a group of right wing stooges without integrity?" |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | Absolutely. I am currently anti-Bush, but am willing to listen to people who can factually dispel my beliefs.
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Now you know where we are. We may or may not be pro-Bush, but we are definitely anti-Kerry.
Here's where we part company. I am NOT willing to change my mind AT ALL.
May be an age thing.
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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AZ3
Ensign
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | If Kerry said that, good for him. If you got your feelings hurt, too bad for you. That has nothing to do with 35 years later. |
It has everything to do with it. There is no statute of limitations on using the brave men and women of my generation for one's own political ambitions. He did it, he can't simply act as if he didn't and expect our support.
You know, after the end of the first Gulf War I watched on TV as the men returned to the United States, I listened to Lee Greenwood sing, I watched the parades...and I wept. I wept because my peers, the men who I served with fought, died, or were forever scarred and we returned home to no parades, no thank you very much...no, we returned and for the most part left the service, we put away our uniforms, and at the behest of our friends and neighbors tried to pretend it never happened. Except when we were with a brother. Then we spoke of things that no one else would understand, we opened doors into pieces of our souls that no one ever wanted to see nor speak of.
The passage of time may mean there are fewer of us now. The years may have affected our hearing, our sight, and our bodies. We are not young men anymore. But we remember...we remember Jane Fonda, we remember John Kerry, we remember the names we were called and the shame that they tried to place upon our shoulders.
What you see here are the seeds he sowed, what you see is the long repressed stand we as Viet Nam and Viet Nam era veterans are now making.
You don't like this place and what it stands for...tought ****. We're still around, and until the last one of us takes a breath John Kerry will always be the dickhead that sold out his brothers for political office.
_________________
Helantisubron 4, 1970-1974, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club member, Shellback, American. Nuff said. |
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