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NavyChief · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:19 am Post subject:

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Wing Wiper · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:37 am Post subject:

Batman and Robin makes good sense, and I'd bet Kerry wasn't the first or last guy to use "Robin" when teamed up with Schatche on a training mission.
What you need to establish now is that "Batman" accompanied "Robin" in the whaler, instead of being remote on those training missions. Anybody want to take bets they were both in the skimmer? Get him, Chief, this could be a ball-buster. Very Happy

Beldar · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 77

I've gone back and forth on this myself in considerable confusion.

I know I want Kerry to have been "Robin" because it would emphasize that he was the junior, rookie partner.

I've wondered if perhaps some of the training on the mission might have included radio communications and call signs.

Ultimately, it doesn't much matter -- as pointed out above, Kerry's greeting Adm. Schachte with the word "Batman" 20 years later means that Kerry knows Schachte was, at a minimum, involved in the mission. But if one of our moderators or other readers could pose this question to someone in the SwiftVets leadership to get a solid answer, I'd still be much comforted. (And if there is such a definitive answer given, I'd appreciate it if someone would email me with it, beldar*at*beldar.org -- thanks!)

baldeagl · PO3 Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas

Wing Wiper · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:07 am Post subject:

That Boston Globe article sounds bass-ackwards to me, Chief. That would put Kerry right out of the whole mission. Question

baldeagl · PO3 Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas

Beldar, is rbshirley's explanation not good enough? He not only told you call signs were always for people, he posted his "business card" from his Swift boat days.

No offense, but some of this crap gets really frustrating. No one wants to believe anything a military person says about stuff that we know about.

I was in the Navy for six years. I can assure you that we didn't use call signs for boats. We used them for people. Is that not good enough? Evil or Very Mad

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Wing Wiper · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:13 am Post subject:

He's reading radio intercept chatter, I think. Maybe it's hard to decypher what to make of it. Without seeing the raw data, we're probably not helping him much in figuring it out. I think I'll bow out and let the Chief have some peace on this.

ASPB · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:19 am Post subject:

NavyChief · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:26 am Post subject:

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Misty · Lieutenant Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 223

I have a question. If no after-action report was made unless there was enemy fire, what about the spot reports? I think I am getting confused here. Surely there are records of missions even when there was no enemy fire. Someone had to send these men out on the mission, right? I was never there and don't really have a clue, but I can't imagine that boats would be out and about without there being a record of who was in them and where they were going. This is frustrating.
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Misty
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Dad was in the Navy Pacific Fleet
Brother was on the USS Regulus - Vietnam
Husband was AirForce 3rd (34th) Tactical Fighter Wing - Security Police Bien Hoa Vietnam

Wing Wiper · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:02 am Post subject:

There was some kind of a report made of the operation. They expended ammunition against a target, so I'm sure somebody wrote up a contact report. I'm betting Schatche has a record of it. We haven't seen all of the evidence yet, I think they're holding a lot of stuff back, waiting for Kerry to dig himself a big hole. O'Neill is cagey, he's not through yet, by a long shot. Very Happy

ASPB · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:06 am Post subject:

Misty,

Understandable confusion. A "Spot" report just means "on the spot". They often included missions where there was no combat action.

E.G. "5 boat sweep of the Bo De no contact, nothing found", but often, when patrolling regularly, nothing would be filed upstream unless there was some form of enemy contact. Thus, by definition "Combat After-Action Reports were included in the definition of "Spot Report".

I hope I haven't added more confusion! Laughing

Tom
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Beldar · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 77

Misty · Lieutenant Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 223

Thanks guys. My point is that there is a dispute about whether or not Schacte was on this mission....whether or not he was on the Boston Whaler. I think the first thing to find out if it is recorded that kerry and schacte were both on this mission. Who else was on the Swift boat as it towed the Whaler? What record would tell us who was there?

I think someone needs to computerize a timeline database to compile all of the information we have.
_________________
Misty
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Dad was in the Navy Pacific Fleet
Brother was on the USS Regulus - Vietnam
Husband was AirForce 3rd (34th) Tactical Fighter Wing - Security Police Bien Hoa Vietnam