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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I've already emailed it to everyone at Fox and have a call in to Brit Hume's producer, Michael Levine.
Somebody, please cache this before CBS takes it down. Accessibly that is.
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB
Last edited by ASPB on Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Not that I'm usually the suspicious type....
But it is odd-looking now that I open the doc and look at it. I wasn't ANG or Reserves, but if we did a Memo for Record (which is what we called it) on active duty, it sure should have had a name and identifying info for the person that made the memo. Otherwise, why bother making the note?
And, other AF folks help me out here. How could a Memo for Record become part of a person's permanent file? Why would that have stayed in an official service record? Or even a unit record? Wouldn't it have been filed (if it's an original) in the unit's copy of the pilot's record and then removed when it was sent for storage?
Having an unfavorable Memo for Record wasn't something an officer took lightly, if I recall correctly.
Very curious....
MJB
USAF '88-'92 |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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We're getting closer. Send it to Drudge or Major Garrett.
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, here's another odd thing. The apostrophes are true apostrophes, not ' on the keyboard. Now a typesetting machine should do that, but my guess is that it would not have been automatic back in 1972.
The PDF is smaller print than my document, but that is typical with a PDF. The PDF is also shifted to the right some so there's more margin on the left than on the right, but the line length is identical.
I'm pretty sure that Times New Roman was developed specifically for Windows. If that's the case, it would NOT have been available on a typesetting machine in 1972.
I'm working on find a place to park a PDF of my file so I can post a link here. |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Come on guys and gals! we need some professional help to flesh this out. Someone with Guard Experience? Someone with typesetting experience?
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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igor
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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The IBM Executive IBM Model D 1967 could do proportional spacing, although "only somebody with a PhD in secretarial skills could operate it".
http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/t/typewriter.htm and http://www.etypewriters.com/history.htm
| Quote: | | Later models of Selectrics replaced inked fabric ribbons with "carbon film" ribbons that had a dry black or colored powder on a "once-thru" clear plastic tape. These could be used only once but they were in a cartridge that was simple to replace. They also introduced auto-correction, where a sticky tape in front of the print ribbon could remove the black-powdered image of a typed character, and introduced selectable "pitch" so that the typewriter could be switched among pica ("10 pitch"), elite ("12 pitch"), and sometimes agate ("15 pitch"), even in one document. Even so, all Selectrics were monospaced -- each and every character was the same width. Although IBM had produced a successful typebar-based machine, the IBM Executive, with proportional spacing, no proportionally-spaced Selectric office typewriter was ever introduced. There was, however, a much more expensive proportionally-spaced machine called the Selectric Composer which was considered a typesetting machine rather than a typewriter. |
and from http://www.well.com/user/smalin/typinwhy.htm...
| Quote: | | The IBM Executive typewriter I found at a garage sale was magnificent, and (having been long since replaced by the Selectric), dirt cheap. Only somebody with a PhD in secretarial skills could operate it. It was a proportional spacing machine: an 'm' was five spaces wide, an 'i' was two. There were two separate space bars (two and three spaces respectively). To correct a mistake, you had to know the width of all the characters involved so that you could backspace the appropriate amount (backspace was the only single-space key on the machine). There was an arcane procedure for producing justified type which involved typing a page a first time (while using a special guide to measure where the lines ended), noting the extra spaces that needed to be added, marking the copy to show where two-width spaces would be replaced with three-width spaces (or, in the worst case, two two-width spaces), and typing the page a second time. Even loading the ribbon (it was one of the first carbon ribbon machines on the market) was a major challenge: its rimless reels would spill their contents at the slightest mishandling, and the thin (less than 1/2" wide) tape had to be threaded through bewildering series of slots, grooves, carriers, and guides. It was a machine only a fanatic could love, and I did. I made regular trips to Santa Barbara's IBM parts center, and spent hours with tweezers, probes, hooks, needle-nosed pliers and other fine tools, getting it working right. |
from http://www.geocities.com/wbd641/TypeManuals2.html
You can change the type (font) in the 1959 IBM Executive, but I don't know if Times New Roman was available.
Someone else in another forum also noticed the "th" in "2. Report to the 111th F.I.S. ..." superscripted the memo at http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf.
Last edited by igor on Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB,
I don't think we need anyone with typesetting experience. That is a Word document. |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have calls in to Garrett, Hume, and Hume's producer but am only getting voicemail. Left extensive messages for all.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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lolajl
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Here's one place to start, an article about font history:
http://webreference.com/dlab/9802/
And, here's a couple of websites to search for fonts; I don't know if it also provides the history on certain fonts but I'm sure it's somewhere out on the web.
http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/
http://www.fontpool.com/
Beware, wandering the font world is not for the faint-hearted - it's easy to get lost in the wilderness. I am not an expert on font types and such; I am just an user who has had to look for a certain font from time to time for web and desktop publishing.
I'd strongly recommend that someone with considerable experience in types and forgery step in to answer questions. |
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FMBass
Ensign
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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From the link: http://www.truetype.demon.co.uk/articles/times.htm
"Microsoft produced its version of Times New Roman, licensed from Monotype, ......"
This was well into the 1980's folks.
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ETR-3 USS Harold E. Holt
DE 1074 (1972-1975) |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Are we sure it's 'New Times Roman? It's all I've used for personal and business correspondence since the advent of PC's and I think so, but I'm no pro.
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB:
It is some version of Times. Compare my PDF to the alleged memo. I see no differences in spacing or letter forms. |
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Interested
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 37
Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I retyped the memo from the 19th using word 12pt Times new roman and then scanned it at 72 dpi. The spacing works out eerily similary...using photoshop to overlay the two documents (mine and the PDF from the CBS site) there are some minor differences:
the date and 'memo to file' appear to be several points off regular line spacing. Ohter wise they space almost identically.
*edit to add* the date is exactly 8 MS tab spaces over from the margin
para2, line 2, the word 'Alabama' doesn't match up quite correctly
Para 2, line 4, there are two spaces between 'him' and 'and' which knocks off my spacing somwhat (I typed it correctly *grin*)
The dropped tail on a lower case 'p' looks to have a larger serif, and the serifs in both the capital 'P' and lower case 'h' appear to be larger. otherwise the fonts appear to match extremely well.
this may be due to the twist in the CBS PDF which I corrected before comparing the two?
I'll raise another question:
in the 4 May 1972 memo on the CBS site in the second paragraph the type for the "th" part of "111th F.I.S." is done in superscript...would that be normal for the time/tech?
Last edited by Interested on Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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