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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| BrianC wrote: | | I visited each of those sites, once each. I found that it was necessary to slow my mind down to a crawl, and therefore it just wasn't worth wasting the time to listen to the gutter language and the sheer hate being spewed. |
I hear ya!
I do pay attention to what's going on, on those sites, though. You can read something posted over there and a few hours later, it's posted on anti-Kerry and pro-Bush sites all over the place.
They've got to tune in to the buzz to get their talking points and pep talks. They have to get all fired up about what those vile, evil Republicans are doing.
Then they go and post from their notes - but don't try to actually engage in the issues with most of them, because once you go off their talking points, they can't hold up their end of a 2X4, much less a debate. They're lost.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | [url]Have you made inquiries to the government under the FOIA as to what they are doing in regard to you? [/url]
the fact that you asked this question clearly reveals that you have not read, nor do you understand, the PATRIOT Act. It is not subject to FOIA. |
The fact that you don't understand that if you are not suspected of terrorist activity, then you are certainly entitled to all information related to you under the FOIA.
The FOIA is not set aside by the Patriot Act, except as pertains to information obtained under FISA.
And you didn't answer any of my other questions.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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OK. what information is under FISA? Oh. Who knows? They don't have to tell me. see the problem?
The government is tracking people. did you read the part about them taking the records of 300,000 people in Las Vegas over New Years? why did they need it? No reason! Just wanted it! Land of the free, baby!!
don't tell me that the right wing will not use information against people! Once again, I will direct you to Joe McCarthy and Richard Noxon. It is REAL! |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | OK. what information is under FISA? Oh. Who knows? They don't have to tell me. see the problem?
The government is tracking people. did you read the part about them taking the records of 300,000 people in Las Vegas over New Years? why did they need it? No reason! Just wanted it! Land of the free, baby!!
don't tell me that the right wing will not use information against people! Once again, I will direct you to Joe McCarthy and Richard Noxon. It is REAL! |
Any information obtained with FISA is not subject to the FOIA. Nope, they don't have to tell you. If you're connected to terrorists, the less you know about how much DHS knows about you the better, as far as I'm concerned.
Can you tell me the process by which a FISA warrant for search or surveillance is executed?
Just where is the problem, as you see it?
Re: the records of 300,000 people in Las Vegas because they "just wanted it?" You're serious? Really?
And for the record, Joe McCarthy was right - there WERE Communist operatives and sympathizers and ideologues in our government and active in the Hollyweird crowd. (Just as there are, today.)
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: |
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And kyleparr, you still haven't answered my questions.
You don't want to get a reputation for dodging points and evading questions and putting up straw men for arguments - people will think you're part of the "Moby-lization" of the internet.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And for the record, Joe McCarthy was right - there WERE Communist operatives and sympathizers and ideologues in our government and active in the Hollyweird crowd. (Just as there are, today.) |
The problem is that our system of Government allows for there to be all of those things. when the government arrests them and prevents them from making a living, it is a problem.
| Quote: | | Re: the records of 300,000 people in Las Vegas because they "just wanted it?" You're serious? Really? |
concern peaked over the 2004 New Year's holiday when the Las Vegas Review-Journal confirmed that the FBI had ham-handedly used so-called “national security letters” to seize the travel and hotel records of over 300,000 visitors to the city. The bureau did so without any actual intelligence suggesting an imminent attack in Las Vegas. National security letter authority was expanded by the Patriot Act and a 2003 intelligence spending bill to allow agents to seize credit, business and communications records without the assent of a judge or grand jury, let alone a showing of criminal probable cause.
and the story
Published on 1/6/2004 in the Reuters
FBI Checked Las Vegas Hotel Lists in Terror Alert
by Jim Wolf
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The FBI demanded Las Vegas hotels turn over their guest lists leading up to New Year's Eve to check against a U.S. master list of suspected terrorists, a law enforcement official said on Sunday.
The demand for "patron information" went to all major hotels in the Nevada casino and entertainment city, said the official who declined to be named.
Las Vegas was one of six or seven cities mentioned in intelligence reports as potential targets for a terrorist attack during the holiday period, Nevada Gov. Kenny Guinn said on New Year's Eve.
A second U.S. government official said to his knowledge only one hotel had balked at providing its bookings list. Newsweek, the first to report the FBI demand, said one big hotel had refused and was "slapped with a subpoena."
The unspecified hotel apparently wanted some "cover" against any privacy-related guest complaints, the official told Reuters. The FBI sent a letter linking the demand to a national security investigation or hinting at a "friendly" subpoena to meet the hotel's concerns, he added.
The Justice Department, the FBI's parent agency, declined comment on any specific effort to thwart possible plots since the Dec. 21 raising of the U.S. warning level to Code Orange, its second highest level.
Among other worries, U.S. officials have said they fear terrorists may be trying to outdo the Sept. 11, 2001, hijacked airliner attacks that killed about 3,000 people in the United States.
Las Vegas, along with New York City's Times Square, features one of the biggest New Year's Eve block parties with revelers thronging its garish, 3-mile long, hotel and casino "strip."
The Federal Aviation Administration barred pilots from flying over the New Year's Eve festivities in Las Vegas and New York as a precautionary measure.
Asked about the Las Vegas hotel records, Mark Corallo, a Justice Department spokesman, said: "Without comment on any specific case or instance, we will use every legal tool we have to protect the American people from terrorist attacks."
PRIVACY CONCERNS
A representative of the American Civil Liberties Union said the demand for guest records, without any individual suspicion, infringed on the privacy of as many as 300,000 people "whose leisure activities are no one's business but their own."
The action also showed the FBI's expanded, post-Sept. 11 power to obtain personal records without judicial review or suspicion about an individual "may well be used to monitor ordinary Americans," said Timothy Edgar, the ACLU's legislative counsel. |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, no cookie.
You said the government got those records because they "just wanted them."
Looks to me (from the very article that you quoted) as if they were protecting one of the largest New Year's parties in the country.
Now, are you going to answer any of my questions? Because if you aren't, then I will just quit attempting to engage you in a real discussion.
And just to understand your frame of reference better, would you mind telling me what age group you are in, what your highest degree is in and what was your major and minor? (No social security numbers or anything, just a bit of general information so that I have a little better idea of where you're coming from.)
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| mikest wrote: | | Grampa wrote: | *see's mikest agree with WarDog*
*feints* |
Only zealots refuse to concede valid points to people they disagree with on certain issues. |
i disagree! Just kidding  |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:41 am Post subject: Re: Kerry will get rid of Ashcroft in First 100 Days!!! |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | Kerry will get rid of Ashcroft in First 100 Days!!! |
Considering how long it typically takes Kerry to make a decision... this might be optimistic.
Keith |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | [url]Have you made inquiries to the government under the FOIA as to what they are doing in regard to you? [/url]
the fact that you asked this question clearly reveals that you have not read, nor do you understand, the PATRIOT Act. It is not subject to FOIA. |
The text of the patriot act is available to the public.
How about you download it, look through it, and tell me what parts you have a problem with.
However, I will NOT entertain ANY discussion on the patriot act that does not contain citations to specific provisions in it.
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El diablo
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:57 am Post subject: |
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err - I've read the patriot act too.
Can anyone cite the parts I should be afraid of?
cut and paste is good.
If you think you have a clue about the patriot act, and have read it - cut and paste the part I should be afraid of - Failure to do so will just prove that you're clueless, full of "rhetoric" and don't have any idea of what you're talking about.
but then again - that would describe most kerry supporters - dougReese excluded of course..
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:56 am Post subject: |
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I don't know how this went from Kerry firing Ashcroft to the Patriot Act. I want to know more about this so called firing. Since the Atty General goes with the outgoing cabinet. Like Janet Reno did. However for the sake of reality are you suggesting that Kerry might win in 2008 running against Hitlery. He sure don't have a chance this time around. Semper Fi
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | the fact that you asked this question clearly reveals that you have not read, nor do you understand, the PATRIOT Act. It is not subject to FOIA. |
The fact that you continue to post opinions instead of links or quotes reveals that you may not have read, nor may understand, the PATRIOT Act.
Can you specify the exact provisions of the law to which you object?
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Bye bye, Boston Straggler! |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | Which is my point about Ashcroft. He sucks at his job and should be thrown out. Then covered in honey and thrown in a bear pit. |
I replied to your comment re: Greenspan. If Kerry is elected, I'm sure he'll keep him.
As for Ashcroft, covering in honey and throwing in a bear pit was declared "cruel and unusual punishment" by Liberals years ago.
For shame!
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | kyleparr wrote: | | Which is my point about Ashcroft. He sucks at his job and should be thrown out. Then covered in honey and thrown in a bear pit. |
I replied to your comment re: Greenspan. If Kerry is elected, I'm sure he'll keep him.
As for Ashcroft, covering in honey and throwing in a bear pit was declared "cruel and unusual punishment" by Liberals years ago.
For shame!
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AH Kyle! Selective torture for Republicans and suites at the Four Seasons for Hussein, Bin Laden, and the other poor suffering "insurgents". You are not debating anything with either an atempt at sanity or consistency. I've already wasted way to many posts on you. Hasta nunca! Largete de aqui!
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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