 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
flagreen
Seaman
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 175
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Doug,
Did you play any role in the Nightline crew getting their visas to travel Vietnam? If so can you shed some light on why they granted permission after first being refused? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
I am fairly sure they spoke to the "real deal" as far as locals are concerned.
Doug |
You don't seem to be getting this. So let me phrase this another way. YOU haven't spoken to the 'real deal', as far as I can see. And I've asked you many times. |
If you are asking, by the "real deal", if the people I spoke in to March were actually survivors of that 28 Feb incident, the answer is yes. They are, for sure, the real deal. They were there.
And if others choose not to believe that, it is fine with me.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GT
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| While I agree with the sentiments quoted in my earlier post my mistake as to author. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| flagreen wrote: | Doug,
Did you play any role in the Nightline crew getting their visas to travel Vietnam? If so can you shed some light on why they granted permission after first being refused? |
No. I didn't even know about the piece until 11:15pm Thursday.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DougReese wrote: |
What?
I don't have to have been standing next to Kerry back then (I wasn't) to know that "something happened".
What do you mean "what's being said now by Kerry supporters"?
|
Let's read and not attempt a stall (besides, that doesn't work if you're writing it):
| Quote: |
| sevry wrote: |
There was a firefight earlier. The '20VC', for sake of argument. I don't know anyone who doubts that, generally. And that's how it reads, even. Kerry was 'drifting about'. |
I saw an earlier mention of this -- "drifting about" -- and an not sure what it means.
|
I've said this to you many times - now. It's how John characterized this on the Nightline episode that is under discussion in THIS thread.
| Quote: |
Keep in mind that I was no longer on that (the 23 boat) at that time, but was on the ground. Shooting was going on where I was, which was very much adjacent/close to where Kerry beached.
|
Yes, but you haven't really said what happened. I asked, many times.
Now's your chance. Do you still disagree with the Swifties description of what happened that day? I was beginning to suspect that you had DROPPED your objection to their complaint.
If that's not the case - then be honest. What did you see that day? Describe it. What didn't you see? You can say that, as well. I think people would genuinely like to know - spinfree, unadulterated, just the facts.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
But if he was alone, |
He wasn't. Bill Rood says he wasn't. The survivors I spoke to said he wasn't.
|
Weren't you there, too? I thought you were an eyewitness? I mean, if you want to say to me, hey, dude, why don't you ask Bill Rood? Whacha askin me for? It's just like John O'Neill to Ted Koppel, or what O'Neill might have said at some point - Ted, you don't like what I'm telling you, ASK JOHN KERRY! After all, it's his biography and autobiography.
That is, if you are claiming only to rely on the testimony of others, that's okay, too. Many of the Swifties are doing just that. But they are upfront about that. They don't claim to have seen such and such that day, unless they were there AND saw something, or the lack of it.
| Quote: |
| sevry wrote: |
if he was shot in the back running away, |
He wasn't. An officer on Kerry's boat saw the wounds on the guy Kerry shot
|
What did YOU see?
As I understand it, he was fleeing, and was shot in the back. He was severely wounded - and shot in the back. He may have been armed with other grenades. So people might not question, that he was shot in the back. It's okay. You can say if he was. You can say both that he was armed and dangerous, and shot in the back while running away.
| Quote: |
familiar with Swifts, and accepted by those who have frequented this board, to my knowledge, that he wasn't shot by the .50 cal.
|
I believe it's ALWAYS been understood that he was shot with the 50 caliber. It was only later as people learned of the forward gunner, Belodeau, and that the 50 was blocked by the bow and prevented from firing, that some suspected the gunman was wounded by both.
"The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher.
Kerry was given a Silver Star for his actions."
Etc.
| Quote: |
the guy wasn't all shot up. That would have been obvious. It wasn't.
|
Yes, it would have been obvious. So with Belodeau firing, and Short, both couldn't hit this guy? That's a bit difficult to believe, don't you think?
I think your objection goes to this idea that using a 50 caliber on enemy combatants was thought by some, early on, to have been a violation of the Geneva Convention. And so it was never done, I think they wanted to say; being a violation and all. But I don't think anyone ever stood by that.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
But tell the truth, as you know it. Be honest. |
I have. |
You haven't said much. But alright. I asked for your truth. And that's your truth. The dead VC was so cleanly dispatched, that you didn't notice a wound, fatal or otherwise, really of any kind. That's your story and you're . . . . that's your story.
I'd like to hear the rest of the story. Now no one is disputing the fight that took place as the 94 'bobbed about', and for which Kerry was significantly mentioned in his citations. But I'd like to hear your part of the story as you encountered an additional '20VC', or more, as Kerry and crew had to confront the lone gunman. This is another 800 yards away. What were you facing at THAT point? What did you see? You were on the ground fighting, after all. Maybe you didn't care about bullet hole counts on the 23. But I think it would be interesting to hear your account of what transpired in those few minutes, even if it means you have to say you didn't really see what happened over with the 94. But I just want to believe it's the truth - and not 2004 'spin'. I'd like to know - if YOU'D like to say. If not, that's fine, too.
I've asked a few questions, over and over again. You've had plenty of opportunity to reply. I can only continue to ask. I hope you can see this from the reader's point of view, as I see it. People might want to know. And you haven't been forthcoming.
Just describe what happened, let's say after the RPG round exploded near the 94. Where was the 23? You were onboard, correct? What happened next? What do you honestly . . . remember? Umm . . heck, were you still back at the fight and did not even re-embark or reboard the 23? Were you even anywhere NEAR what happened when the 94 was fired upon? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DougReese wrote: | | sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
I am fairly sure they spoke to the "real deal" as far as locals are concerned.
Doug |
You don't seem to be getting this. So let me phrase this another way. YOU haven't spoken to the 'real deal', as far as I can see. And I've asked you many times. |
If you are asking, by the "real deal", if the people I spoke in to March were actually survivors of that 28 Feb incident, the answer is yes. They are, for sure, the real deal. They were there.
Doug |
Whoever THEY are, they may have been. I was talking about you, Doug. You REALLY didn't understand that reference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GT
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mr. Reese,
Have you, or anyone acting on your behalf, ever had contact with ABC or anyone acting on its behalf before your phone call with ABC this past Thursday? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
I am fairly sure they spoke to the "real deal" as far as locals are concerned.
Doug |
You don't seem to be getting this. So let me phrase this another way. YOU haven't spoken to the 'real deal', as far as I can see. And I've asked you many times. |
If you are asking, by the "real deal", if the people I spoke in to March were actually survivors of that 28 Feb incident, the answer is yes. They are, for sure, the real deal. They were there.
Doug |
Whoever THEY are, they may have been. I was talking about you, Doug. You REALLY didn't understand that reference. |
No, I didn't know what you were talking about. And sorry if I don't go back and read your posts, as perhaps I might understand what your were talking about. But I didn't. And you haven't gone back to read my archived posts. In them, I believe you will find answers to many of the questions you're asking now. Some of your questions are pretty basic.
It may surprise you that I don't take pleasure in going over this again and again -- especially with someone with an attitude such as your's.
I will give a general, basic statement as to what happened with me that day. If you want to know more, please feel free to call me -- just drop me an e-mail and I will give you my number.
I am not going to go back and forth about what I said, what other Swift Boat vets have had to say, how they compare, who I disagree with, why I said "40 yards one time and "60 yards another time, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
Three Swifts were heading north on the Dong Cung Canal. Kerry (94), Rood (23) and Droz (43).
Vietnamese soldiers we worked/lived with were spread out between the three boats. Something like 15 or so on each.
All three advisors were on Rood's boat.
There was some shooting. Rood's boat beached. The three advisors, myself included, got off. The Vietnamese followed.
I was the second advisor to get off. We went straight forward a few steps. I saw one VC. (His name was Bay, he was within a month of his 20th birthday.) He was armed. I shot him. I saw a number of other VC. They were armed. Some of them were killed by the other advisor and/or the Vietnamese with us.
A few minutes after this happened, and when there was still some things going on, although it had died down to a degree . . . . I looked over and saw a boat nearby. I walked over to that boat, and just past it. Kerry was standing there, next to a dead VC and a lean-to. He told me what happened (.50 couldn't traverse low enough to shoot him, Tommy shot him with the M-60 in the leg but then the M-60 jammed, Kerry disembarked and shot him) as I stood there.
35 years and one month later I returned to that spot and met two guys from that day who survived, which is how I know Bay's name. (It's pronounced like "Buy", in case you want to know)
You got questions -- call me.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GT wrote: | Mr. Reese,
Have you, or anyone acting on your behalf, ever had contact with ABC or anyone acting on its behalf before your phone call with ABC this past Thursday? |
I've answered a few variations of this question, but with all this -- what is it now 25 pages? -- I can see how the answers could have been overlooked.
No. And I didn't speak to them until Friday morning.
I didn't have a clue, other than the mention of what someone said on this board (go over to Geedunk and Skuttlebut and look at a thread about Rather/CBS Nightly news going to VN, which was incorrect) that they were going.
If so, they would not have mentioned anything about a Swift Boat vet having been there six months ago.
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DougReese wrote: | | sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: | | sevry wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
I am fairly sure they spoke to the "real deal" as far as locals are concerned.
Doug |
You don't seem to be getting this. So let me phrase this another way. YOU haven't spoken to the 'real deal', as far as I can see. And I've asked you many times. |
If you are asking, by the "real deal", if the people I spoke in to March were actually survivors of that 28 Feb incident, the answer is yes. They are, for sure, the real deal. They were there.
Doug |
Whoever THEY are, they may have been. I was talking about you, Doug. You REALLY didn't understand that reference. |
No, I didn't know what you were talking about. And sorry if I don't go back and read your posts, as perhaps I might understand what your were talking about. But I didn't.
|
Funny. It's not as if you could click on a 22 instead of a 23 at the bottom of the page, here. You don't have to go to school to learn that. They're easy to find. They're ALL in this very thread - Doug.
| Quote: |
And you haven't gone back to read my archived posts.
|
I suggested a solution. Cut n paste. Your story won't change. But sometimes stories change. It's fine.
Now, the only thing you've actually said is that you personally saw the corpse of the 'kid in the loincloth'. That's your contribution to this. And I said, if that's your truth, then so be it. But even you said, people can believe that 'truth' or not. And I suggested some reasons why people might not find your 'truth' all that credible. And now you have a 'Kerry told me' explanation, just below. So let's see what that is, when we get to it.
You are very reluctant to answer questions, and almost appear to be making this up as you go. But I'll just assume that's not the case. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt.
| Quote: |
It may surprise you that I don't take pleasure in going over this again
|
One has to say something, in first place, in order to revisit it.
| Quote: |
and again -- especially with someone with an attitude such as your's.
|
I've ALREADY said the same about you. I admire your service, if you really are Doug Reese. But I sure as heck don't admire what you're trying to pull, today. Those are severable. Those are two different things.
| Quote: |
I am not going to go back and forth about what I said, what other Swift Boat vets have had to say
|
I only ever asked what YOU had to say. Don't pretend I've ever done otherwise. There's your "attitude".
So you describe the initial fight. And as I suspected, you were not back aboard the 23 when it went to assist the 94 with the lone gunman. Now this is where people were confused. They thought that you had been up with the 94 when the RPG round came by. What you saw, which goes to Kerry's Silver Star, was simply the corpse after it was over. And I found your testimony even just on that one thing, somewhat incredible. And I explained why.
| Quote: |
A few minutes after this happened, and when there was still some things going on, although it had died down to a degree . . . . I looked over and saw a boat nearby. I walked over to that boat, and just past it. Kerry was standing there, next to a dead VC and a lean-to. He told me what happened (.50 couldn't traverse low enough to shoot him, Tommy shot him with the M-60 in the leg but then the M-60 jammed, Kerry disembarked and shot him) as I stood there.
|
Okay. Kerry personally told you, and you are faithfully reporting what he said as best you can recall today, that after it was over, as you were standing near the corpse, which seemed perhaps almost to be 'playing dead' it was that bloodless, although you did see some blood (?), that Belodeau had attempted to fire but that danged gun jammed again - didn't break apart as it supposedly would on 13 MAR. But it jammed, though not before he got off a few rounds. Even so, you yourself didn't see any evidence of entry wounds from that weapon, however, as the 'kid' lay there dead. Or did you? Kerry said to you that Short didn't fire a shot. He never got a look at the 'kid', despite all the early reports about the 50's, which I think were from Kerry's books and Kerry's site. But correct me if I'm wrong. And Kerry was able to chase him down, because Kerry ran just that fast I guess, and shot him - in the back. No? But see, now it wouldn't matter so much that he was shot in the back, because you say he hadn't been shot, at all (at least that one could see).
That's your story and . . well, that's your story. Or rather it's John Kerry's story, as you accurately remember it? And as YOU said - if people question it, then they're going to question it. If people don't believe, there's nothing you can do. I think those are pretty much your own words. So don't get mad. Don't be angry. It's your 'book' that I'm quoting.
I'm not the only one, Doug. You're still not getting this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
USAF66-70
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sevry says: | Quote: | | …if you really are Doug Reese. |
Sevry—I’d bet that this Doug Reese really is THE Doug Reese. If you truly have doubts, you should call him:
| Quote: | | Vietnamtourism, 2001 S Street NW, Suite 301, Washington, D.C. 20009. Tel: (202) 232-0688, Fax: (202) 232-0689, Doug Reese—"We have been involved in the travel and tour business for more than 35 years. Vietnamtourism in Ho Chi Minh City is proud of its experience in handling all ground arrangements for international tourists. We remain flexible in designing custom itineraries to suit your time, your desires, and your budget." |
Hey Doug, too bad you don’t do tours to Okinawa, closest I ever got to Vietnam. Changed your mind about voting for Kerry yet?
Fred H. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| USAF66-70 wrote: | Sevry says: | Quote: | | …if you really are Doug Reese. |
Sevry—I’d bet that this Doug Reese really is THE Doug Reese. If you truly have doubts, you should call him:
| Quote: | | Vietnamtourism, 2001 S Street NW, Suite 301, Washington, D.C. 20009. Tel: (202) 232-0688, Fax: (202) 232-0689, Doug Reese—"We have been involved in the travel and tour business for more than 35 years. Vietnamtourism in Ho Chi Minh City is proud of its experience in handling all ground arrangements for international tourists. We remain flexible in designing custom itineraries to suit your time, your desires, and your budget." |
Hey Doug, too bad you don’t do tours to Okinawa, closest I ever got to Vietnam. Changed your mind about voting for Kerry yet?
Fred H. |
Funny you should mention that. Yes, I have changed my mind . . . . about how I am going to vote  Instead of using an absentee ballot, I am going to vote in-person. Then it's off to the airport and you-know-where.
My number has changed a couple of times since I was in DC. Although that number still exists, it call-forwards to another. Verizon has screwed that up, however. The current number is 703-239-9355
Doug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doug said: And you haven't gone back to read my archived posts.
Sevry said: I suggested a solution. Cut n paste. Your story won't change. But sometimes stories change. It's fine.
Doug: I have answered most of these questions already. Many of the oldtimers here could probably answer them from what was said right here by me. So you go cut and paste, or look, or whatever.
And the fact that I was on the ground while Bill Rood was doing whatever he was doing is basic. I have never said I was on Kerry's boat that day. Here, and many other places, I have been specific about that time-and-time-again.
And you can take my words and do with them whatever you'd like -- you wouldn't be the first. . . . . but they are your words, not mine
Call if you'd like. I'll be more than happy to speak with you. (OK, OK, I'll speak with you. I'm not so sure about the happy part.)
Doug
PS. In case you can't find it -- 703-239-9355 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
USAF66-70
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doug: See how you Kerry people are: I obviously wasn’t asking “how” you were going to vote….
But another thought: After Bush wins, and with all this Vietnam stuff having been brought up, maybe there’ll be a surge in interest by vets to visit Vietnam. Since most of them (understandably) dislike Kerry, perhaps you should consider, from a PR perspective, aligning yourself with their POV? Hell, I might even consider such a tour … not that I’m trying to buy your vote.
I wasn’t there, but it was my generation—a lot of the guys on the Wall were born, like me, in blue collar 1948. I’ve always sensed that I easily could have ended up there—Vietnam, and the Wall … more luck than brains.
Fred H. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GT
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I echo Echo Juliet's earlier thoughts regarding Doug Reese's comments on this forum, in which she replies to him "...I believe your main purpose is to disrupt and place doubt". He hasn't succeeded in planting any doubt here about whose story I believe - I believe SBVT! But I do doubt Reese's independent recall on the circumstances of the Silver Star incident, in light of the fact it's now come out he was the mysterious guy that went to Vietnam last spring to interview supposed Vietnamese combatants in that incident. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
