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hist/student
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Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243
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 Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:26 am Post subject: |
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retracted
Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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oldkayaker
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Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: Like Bush or hate Kerry |
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to ASPB et al of the same thinking:
There was no connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Panel Says No Signs Iraq Aided Qaeda Plots on U.S.
[hot off the press]
By Deborah Charles
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Investigators have found no evidence Iraq (news - web sites) aided al Qaeda attempts to strike the United States, a commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks said on Wednesday in a report that undermines Bush administration arguments for war. |
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hist/student
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Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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retracted
Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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But that's not what the Commission staff report actually said. Here's what they actually said.
| Quote: | The below passage, for instance, does more to confirm the Bush administration's claims of an Iraq-al Qaida link than it does to contradict them.
"The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded Bin Ladin* to cease [support for anti-Saddam Islamists in Northern Iraq] and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda*.
"A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting Bin Ladin in 1994. Bin Ladin is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded." [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 5]
Apparently never responded? How, pray tell, does the AP derive from those words the conclusive claim that Iraq "rebuffed" Bin Laden?
The Commission statement continues:
"There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after Bin Ladin had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship."
What's the evidence for this less-than-conclusive surmise?
"Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq," says the Commission.
Such a statement begs the question, why does the Commission, let alone the press, take the word of two senior bin Laden associates over, say, Iraq's new prime minister, Iyad Allawi.
Last December he told the London Telegraph, "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda."
Reacting to the discovery of an Iraqi intelligence document placing 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks, he continued:
"This is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is: "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States." [NewsMax italics]
Apparently Dr. Allawi's asssement counts for nothing.
Even so, it's worth noting that elsewhere in today's staff statement, the 9/11 Commission asserts:
"With al Qaeda at its foundation, Bin Ladin sought to build a broader Islamic Army that included terrorist groups from Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Oman, Tunisia, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Somalia, and Eritrea. Not all [terrorist] groups from these states agreed to join, but at least one from each did." [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 3]
In other words, at least one terror group from Iraq did form an alliance with bin Laden. |
If you are going to believe the liberal press headlines, at least do your homework to find out what the commission actually said! Go read it for yourself:
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/staff_statement_15.pdf
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."
Last edited by War Dog on Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hist/student
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Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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retracted
Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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oldkayaker
Ensign
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: like Bush or hate Kerry |
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Boys, boys, boys.....time to face facts.
Logic and common sense tell you that Saddam would not have ever shared his evil empire with anyone...OBL or anyone else.
Face it, there never was a connection between al Qaeda, OBL and Saddam. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Nice try, but go to the link. It's there if you bother to read it!
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: like Bush or hate Kerry |
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| oldkayaker wrote: | Boys, boys, boys.....time to face facts.
Logic and common sense tell you that Saddam would not have ever shared his evil empire with anyone...OBL or anyone else.
Face it, there never was a connection between al Qaeda, OBL and Saddam. |
It appears that you've read none of the evidence which conflicts with your leftmedia centric vision.
As to common sense and logic, I'll leave you in your denial with the following:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend......For Now!
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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oldkayaker
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Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject: like Bush or hate Kerry |
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Oh...do you mean the excerpt of the 9/11 Commission report...that I read which the PDF doesn't allow copying here but starts with the following sentence:
"...Bin Laden explored possible cooperation.... "
and concludes:
"... We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States...."
Oh, you mean that Commission report, page 5 of 12?
Last edited by oldkayaker on Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Such a statement begs the question, why does the Commission, let alone the press, take the word of two senior bin Laden associates over, say, Iraq's new prime minister, Iyad Allawi.
Last December he told the London Telegraph, "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda."
Reacting to the discovery of an Iraqi intelligence document placing 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks, he continued:
"This is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is: "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."
Apparently Dr. Allawi's asssement counts for nothing.
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Iraq's new prime minister, Iyad Allawi statement isn't good enough for you?
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."
Last edited by War Dog on Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NoDonkey
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 78
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Like Bush or hate Kerry |
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| oldkayaker wrote: | to ASPB et al of the same thinking:
There was no connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Panel Says No Signs Iraq Aided Qaeda Plots on U.S.
[hot off the press]
By Deborah Charles
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Investigators have found no evidence Iraq (news - web sites) aided al Qaeda attempts to strike the United States, a commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks said on Wednesday in a report that undermines Bush administration arguments for war. |
I thought the purpose of the 9/11 Commission was to find out why we didn't "connect the dots" and prevent the attacks? Perhaps because the political hacks in the State Dept and the CIA refuse to admit they were wrong, kind of like they're doing now in denying the links between Al Qaeda and Saddam? Maybe it won't convince the OJ Jury, but it's enough for me.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060746734/qid%3D1086097541/sr%3D1-1/104-1279327-1829554
Weekly Standard reporter Hayes marshals a wealth of evidence that, in contrast with the tenuous connections that have so far made news, point to ties between Saddam Hussein's regime and al-Qaeda. Most intriguingly, Hayes finds links between Iraq and the 1993 World Trade Center bombers, one of whom apparently received shelter and financial support from Iraq after the attack. Hayes also gets confirmation by Czech officials of the alleged Prague meeting between September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta and an Iraqi intelligence agent. Elsewhere, Hayes points to Iraqi intelligence documents that mention a "good relationship" with bin Laden. Other sources note an alleged agreement for Iraq to assist al-Qaeda in making chemical and biological weapons. Relying both on "open sources" like news articles, transcripts from the 1998 embassy bombing trials, as well as anonymous intelligence reports and informants, Hayes allows that some of these stories may prove unreliable. But he contends that the number, consistency and varied provenance of reports of high-level contacts between al-Qaeda and Iraq throughout the past decade allows one to "connect the dots" into a clear pattern of collaboration. Despite the frustrating absence of source notes and no knowledge of what cooperative efforts ever came of these contacts, most readers will conclude from this volume that the Saddam–al-Queda thread has some play left in it.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
Instapundit.com has a good rundown on debunking of the worthless sideshow 9/11 Commission.
_________________
"Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face." - Thomas Sowell |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | There was no connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Panel Says No Signs Iraq Aided Qaeda Plots on U.S. |
I just realized how tricky the media is on this one! President Bush, VP Dick Cheney and the Bush Administration NEVER said that there was any connection between Saddam Hussen and Iraq and the attack on 911. So, that part of what the 9/11 commission said is true.
However, the commission did in fact disclose links between Saddam Hussen & Iraq and Bin Laden & al Queda. Which is what President Bush, VP Dick Cheney and the Bush Administration have been saying all along.
I had forgot how sneaky the leftist media is, and how they carefully parse their words and sentences to make the articles appear that they are something they aren't.
But, pay attention to what the Prime Minister of Iraq says below, and especally the parts in bold print.
| Quote: | What's the evidence for this less-than-conclusive surmise?
"Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq," says the Commission.
Such a statement begs the question, why does the Commission, let alone the press, take the word of two senior bin Laden associates over, say, Iraq's new prime minister, Iyad Allawi.
Last December he told the London Telegraph, "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda."
Reacting to the discovery of an Iraqi intelligence document placing 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks, he continued:
"This is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is: "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."
Apparently Dr. Allawi's asssement counts for nothing. |
Now, why would the Prime Minister of Iraq say the above, if there wasn't some truth to what he said? It all boils down to who you believe, our elected government, and the government of Iraq, or the leftist media and members of terrorist groups!
You decide for yourself!
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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NoDonkey
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 78
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Al Qaeda have proven themselves master manipulators of our media and our State Dept./Intelligence Community bureaucrats.
They clearly learned from Marx - but today's useful idiots won't take money in return for the rope, ego-feeding, CYA and partisan politics is enough for them.
_________________
"Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face." - Thomas Sowell |
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oldkayaker
Ensign
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 52
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: like Bush or hate Kerry |
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| oldkayaker wrote: | Boys, boys, boys.....time to face facts.
Logic and common sense tell you that Saddam would not have ever shared his evil empire with anyone...OBL or anyone else.
Face it, there never was a connection between al Qaeda, OBL and Saddam. |
First of all, drop the "boys, boys" stuff.
It's condescending and insulting.
Here's a rule of thumb: If you wouldn't talk to someone that way in person, don't do it on the internet, behind the safety of a keyboard.
Second, logic and common sense tell you that the notion that Saddam would have a working relationship with every terrorist group in the mideast EXCEPT Al Queda, is just plain silly.
Third, I suggest you read the report you are citing.
Your statement:
| Quote: | | Face it, there never was a connection between al Qaeda, OBL and Saddam. |
Is not only untrue, the 9/11 commission didn't say there wasn't.
What they DID say is that they didn't have any evidence that they considered credible to prove that Saddam was involved in the 9/11 plot.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
To believe that Saddam and AQ had no relationship at all takes the same abbrogation of common sense and induldgence in wishful thinking as the claim that there is no connection between the Mafia and the Teamsters union.
Either that, or it requires an agenda.
Now, the sort of patronizing falsehoods you have been posting here may fly at **, but they wont fly here.
_________________
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