SwiftVets.com

[OsanFAC]

Okay, Concur that this track for a forgery ammo may be a deadend. Thanks for the additional info Hondo.
_________________
OsanFAC

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

[Rdtf]

check out Drudge-
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU SEPT 09, 2004 22:45:32 ET XXXXX

CBSNEWS LAUNCHES INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AFTER SUSPICIOUS BUSH DOCS AIRED

**Exclusive**

CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush's National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.

The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately "shell-shocked" by the increasing likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.

Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president's military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.

MORE

[Interested]

the use of AFM 35-13 may be correct, it's on the old docs released earlier...

but what about how it is referenced? is it done correctly...the CBS memo is written differently than *any* other reference I have seen...IAW as opposed to violation of 2-10, authority 35-13 para 2-23m....

[Cazador]

Hello,

Here's more insight into their mindset:

----- Original Message ----- From: Bronner, Michael

Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: CBS News/60 Minutes

I am a producer at 60 Minutes and am working on a story about military recruiting. I have heard anecdotally about several concerns regarding recruiting methods employed by all of the armed forces, and am wondering whether there is anyone at MFSO working specifically on these issues, or any families with relevant experiences they might be willing to share.

Please reach me by phone though the contacts listed below.

Thanks very much.

-Michael Bronner, CBS News Michael Bronner
CBS News/60 Minutes II
555 W. 57th St., 8th Flr. New York, NY 10019 tel. 212.975.7938 fax
212.975.9310 mobile: 646.331.3694

Found this at:

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/roadtrip/freepress60minrequest.html

Cazador

[Hondo]

OsanFAC:

You're welcome.

Not trying to sharpshoot; just trying to make sure we don't slip up and give Kerry and his "posse" any wiggle-room on this one.

From what I've seen so far, IMO the docs are forgeries - and so badly done, nothing else is needed to prove same.

[OsanFAC]

For what its worth,

Appears that AFM 35-13 as referenced frequently in the Bush documents changed at some point in time between the early 1970's and late 1970' to "AFR" 35-13.

I went through my old records and found a reference to "AFR" 35-13 on a Request For Aeronautical Orders dated July 1980.
_________________
OsanFAC

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

[Sonar5]

**Leads back to Kerry? The Real Origin of the Documents
Scroll for American Spectator Article Excerpt...

The origin of the FORGED Documents story goes back to one of my hangouts FREEREPUBLIC.com, where I've been a member since 1998. (same screen name too)

ABC has done an analysis and it was during the show that a Freeper began a thread on Wednesday night that took hold and began this frenzy of forged documents.

ABC Story and analysis here:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html
(Actually it was TankerKC, not Buckhead that first questioned the memos)

1st Freeper Thread which shows 1st questions at 09/08/2004 5:19:00 PM PDT by TankerKC **READ POST #107 **
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?q=1&&page=101

2nd Freeper Thread 09/08/2004 8:10:56 PM PDT by Pikamax:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts

As well as Powerline here:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

And Little Green Footballs..
www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

And INDC Journal Here:
http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000838.php
(Interesting where I rip apart a lib dem that tried to deflect with OCR Scanning, and kerning BS....

And of course our resident swift members chimed in as well on Thursday. (Great job)
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8487

Dig into the kerning folks, if you have not done so... Kerning can only be done on a Computer, and the CYA memo has kerning in it... (look at the my)

Large Freeper Thread, over 600 Posts began at 09/08/2004 9:16:04 PM by Howlin
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210702/posts


Those are pretty much where I was hanging out yesterday....
************

What this shows is the power of the internet, the intelligence of conservatives who will stand behind their President, and the ability of people to come together to defeat John Kerry....

The rest of the story is still developing, as Drudge report then posted it, and Fox News Jim Angle and Brit Hume were first MSM to discuss it in detail on Brit Hume's Show, Special report:

Swift vets also gets mention in another story on Fox's website:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131997,00.html

************
************

This story will lead back to the Kerry campaign and who knew about these documents and why they were not vetted properly, IMHO, and others....

American Spectator has run this story which is very telling about links to the Kerry Campaign and the DNC, where they state the DNC and Kerry Campaign was aware of the documents:
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096

[air_vet]

[You GottaBeKidding]

Back to the memos. I just had a light bulb moment. This has been mentioned a couple or three times here and there, but it didn't really sink in until now.

The address on two of the memos is centered. If you were working on a typewriter with monospaced characters (a standard typewriter), it was easy enough to center. You tabbed to the middle then spoke the letters and backspaced every other character. However, it wouldn't be perfect unless there was an even number of characters.

Suppose, just suppose, you had a magic typewriter with the Times font that equally magically exactly matched Times New Roman.

How could you center proportional text???? Tabbing to the middle and backspacing for every other character would not work (except through sheer blind luck) because different characters are different widths.

Furthermore, centered text from this magic typewriter would not align with the text on the test Word documents.

[mr_mechanical]

[azpatriot]

[You GottaBeKidding]

My guess is that the "original" was printed on plain copy paper.

More musings on the centering thing. If the typewriter had a memory, in theory you could type the text to be centered into memory and then the typewriter would position the text properly.

However, the alignment would not exactly match the Word document.

[JimRobson]

Excellent azpatriot:

You said it better than I could have, although I stopped working on the mechanical aspects when someone first pointed out the superscripted "th". That is a smoking gun that ends the conversation for me.

I'm having fun now just watching the story break across the MSM

Hoooya!!!
_________________
ETN2 PTF2 (Littlecreek Underwater Demolition Unit 2 1963)

http://www.thewebplace.com/

[MJB]

http://ace.mu.nu/

The funniest thing I have read all day, regarding the AP story on the forgeries - Ace's comments I've italicized.

*CAUTION* If you go to the web site, profanity alert (but funny profanity...)



Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service

Fri Sep 10, 1:01 AM ET

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent

WASHINGTON - New documents unearthed in the midst of the presidential campaign fill in some blanks but raise other questions about the sometimes mysterious and spotty story of President Bush (news - web sites)'s military service during Vietnam when he won a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard and avoided the war.

Do tell, Terence.

Reviving issues that have shadowed his political career, the documents show Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Texas Air National Guard pilot more than three decades ago because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical examination.

They do?

But the authenticity of the memos was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote them. One of the writer's fellow officers and a document expert also said Thursday the documents appear to be forgeries.

Still, the documents marked the second time in days the White House had to backtrack from assertions that all of Bush's records had been released....

Wh-wh-wha...?

What?

What the ****?

What the ******* ****?

You just said that experts said they appeared to be forgeries, and now you question why these documents hadn't been released?

Ummm... because they were forgeries?

Does. That. Even. Register?

They also raised the specter that Bush sought favors from higher-ups and that the commander of the Texas Air National Guard wanted to "sugar coat" Bush's record after he was suspended from flying.

Ummm... except, of course, that the documents in question are forgeries.

That minor quibble aside-- yes, the documents do raise this "specter."
...

Kerry, campaigning in Iowa, refused to talk Thursday about the new Bush documents. "That's for the White House to answer," he said in an Associated Press interview. Presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said, "I think you absolutely are seeing a coordinated attack by John Kerry and his surrogates on the president."

Yet, it was the White House — not Kerry's campaign — that distributed four memos from 1972 and 1973 from Lt. Col. Jerry Killian...

Uhhh, the White House "distributed" the faxed documents it got from CBS.

But we now know the Kerry campaign was the actual supplier of the documents to CBS.

But this guy attempts to deflects all blame from Kerry. Why, the White House had the documents! That's proof that they didn't originally come from Kerry, right?

Look at this ********** go.

... now deceased, who was the commander of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron in Houston where Bush served. The White House obtained the memos from CBS News, which said it was convinced of their authenticity, and the White House did not question their accuracy. There was no explanation why the Pentagon (news - web sites) was unable to find the documents on its own.

Ummmm... again, maybe the Pentagon was "unable to find the documents" because, well, see, they're forgeries.

I don't think they have a special records room for forgeries, Terence.

....

Now-- if that's the sort of tale Terence writes after the documents have been proven forgeries, imagine what they'd do in the absence of such smoking-gun evidence of fraud.

Our foe is implacable, ruthless, relentless, and without shame or remorse. We got lucky yesterday, gentleman-- but the vicious herd that is the liberal media isn't surrendering just yet.

[air_vet]

The CURRENT AF publication dealing with Non-Permant Disqualification (DQ) for Aviation Service is AFI 11-402. Table 3.2 pg 48 includes "Failure to Maintain Medical Certification".

Notice the Table is called NON-PERMANENT Disqualification (DQ) for Aviation Service.

The 111 FIS was transitioning from F-102s to F0101s - President Bush would have incured an additional service obligation if he retrained. Many pilots choose to leave a unit when this sort of thing happens.

By the way, AFM 35-13 is SO old it is not included as a reference.