SwiftVets.com

d19thdoc · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:42 am Post subject:

Things I learned and questions I have after viewing Nightline tonight:

1. The Vietnamese river guide approached ABC’s Asia producer and said he could locate the village; it was not independently located by ABC. They used the Navy AAR’s grid coordinates, but on a map provided by the Vietnamese.
2. The Vietnamese government at first refused ABC the necessary permissions, knowing that the subject matter could influence the U.S. Presidential elections. So they knew what was at stake.
3. Then the Vietnamese government soon after changed its decision and gave permission.
4. A Vietnamese government “minder” was on scene at all times.
5. How much freedom of expression do Vietnamese peasants have these days?
6. How much influence does Kerry have in Vietnam today, both through financial ties (the Collier’s International deal) and through the “friends” he has cultivated there for thirty plus years?
7. John O’Neill was adamant that the previous camera toting pair who searched out the villagers was not one of the Swifties and not working for them. So who could it have been? See number 6 above. How does the Kerry campaign spell “a-d-v-a-n-c-e-m-a-n?”

The more of this stuff I see, the more I understand how Kerry operates.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

Wit · Seaman Recruit Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 19

d19thdoc · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:47 am Post subject:

mangdawg wrote:

muggedliberal · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:47 am Post subject:

I thought I remembered one of the VVAW had been living over there since 1979.. was there a thread on that somewhere?

blackwatch · Ensign Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 74 Location: NH

Wonder how we can find out who this Kyle Lewis is.

cipher · Vice Admiral Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902

At the risk of sounding redundant, don't pay attention to the COMMENTARY by ABC. They are in the tank for Kerry.

Listen to the ACCOUNTS from the eyewitnesses: the VC and Kerry (in his MTSR).

Fact: there were NO MORE than 20 VC.
Fact: there was only ONE B-40
Fact: there was a HEAVY firefight (99% coming from the FRIENDLY elements)
Fact: Kerry killed a lone, young, VC armed with the B-40, after he was already wounded and fleeing.
Fact: Friendly forces outtnumbered enemy forces 5 to 1.
Fact: Friendly firepower was OVERWHELMING compared to enemy fire
Fact: Enemy was fleeing with Friendlies in pursuit, WITH supporting mortar fire
Fact: Kerry embellished the account of the action to game a Silver Star
Fact: John O'Neill pointed out ABC wasted tens of thousands of dollars chasing a bad lead.
Fact: Ted Koppel really needs to get a decent rug.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

igor · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 81

Rood in http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-040821rood,0,4945304.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Stevie · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:56 am Post subject:

it looks like it will be on at 10:30 here in AZ (phx area)

dmacko : AMEN !

I think I need to make another sign for my 'yard' (2 1/2 acres) that identifies ABC etc as communist networks ! that should thrill my neighbors....

My 13 yr old neighbor boy asked me today (he's on school break) if I was going to vote for Kerry.... ha! little stinker - he was being sarcastic ! he's seen my signs!!!!! he says they are studying politics in school right now.... election stuff... I didn't want to press him to much....but I think tomorrow I will call and ask him to help me with something and try to wiggle a few facts in..... without being to pushy on a kid don't know where he parents stand on this...
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

1991932 · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:59 am Post subject: Nightline

Are you old enough to remember the moon landing in 1969? How do we know that ABC didn't just shoot this in the desert in Arizona? In fact, I think I saw the London Bridge in the background.

From everything I've seen, it's John O'Neil who deserves the Silver Star. He's the one who came under intense small mind fire, turned into the attack, and courageously gunned down a network anchor, who still had a warm blow dryer in his hand.

Way to go, John! You saved our bacon this time. Semper Fi.
_________________
Former "War Criminal"

meggaditto · Seaman Recruit Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 16

John was awesome. I think Koppell could not answer John when he asked why he did not use John Kerry's own words in his autobiography that there was only one vc.

Paul R. · PO3 Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 273 Location: Illinois

It's gotta be tough to go on like John did. So I hope no one minds what I intend as constructive criticism to make a more persuasive argument to those "in the middle". I think John's "repetetiveness" made him seem, well, a little "stubborn" to an average viewer. And, waving a book doesn't accomplish much. Just a suggestion: Make sure to be prepared with lots to go on offense with, concentrated on the particular interviewer's line. Maybe in such situations put together a "cheat sheet" in advance with some questions to throw back at (for example) Koppel:

If there was a firefight of any significance at all, with the Viet Cong "entrenched" 50 ft. away, how could there be no serious damage after the (rocket was shot) to any of the swift boats, or no serious casualties? Does this not throw doubt on the villagers' account? I'll say it again: I can hit a trash can with a hickory nut at 50 ft. Cite the damage reports directly.

The timeline expressed by the villagers seems to me to indicate that if there was a firefight, it may have occurred after Kerry shot the Viet Cong. From what very little I have learned from this site, and the Nightline account, it sounds like there may have been an initial ambush with the rocket, and maybe a few more shots, then Kerry killed the rocketeer, then sometime later the rest of the VC attacked again from other positions. Again note the VC themselves saying they didn't hit anything. Hmmm...

Do any U.S. personnel recall burning the (prior) village? It that in any reports?

Why are there 3 different versions of the citation, that seem to have been cleaned up in each successive version?

State that Kerry probably sent in the after action report (if that is what the current evidence still indicates -- I'll admit I have lost track of the research on that one.)

The question asked previously about the villagers' remarkably clear memories is a good one.

If Koppel pushes the lioncloth vs. pajama part, just say "I was quoting John Kerry. I'm willing to concede he may have been mistaken!"

Point out that the "allied" forces had vastly superior firepower, even if there were 20 Viet Cong.

I'm sure the rest of you can think up enough stuff to keep Koppel off balance for at least 2 hours!!!
_________________
Paul R.

bhlewis · Ensign Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 63

Is/did anyone get the mp3 for this like some of the other interviews?

cipher · Vice Admiral Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 902

ThanksVets · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:05 am Post subject:

Did anyone remember if the boat from six months ago said "Scaramouche" on the back?

Zac's Mom · Ensign Joined: 14 May 2004 Posts: 53 Location: Texas

John flustered Koppel so much this evening Koppel became confused to the point he can't even keep his own propaganda straight!

First he questioned John about just who these mystery persons who'd visited this village 6 month ago and talked with these people about Kerry were.......

then a few moments later, in response to John's assertion that this entire VC story didn't match with any of the stories of record (including John Kerry's) Koppel defended the story by demanding John explain why these poor peasants living in a remote part of an island would lie about someone they don't even anything about!
_________________
"If you are going through hell, keep going." Winston Churchill
http://www.goodolddogs.com