SwiftVets.com

[Morto]

[Marine4life]

Does anyone know an actual POW personally, I do and his account of the Geneva Convention protecting him is laughable. If you think Iraq has wined and dined our troops that are POW's then you are dumber than I first thought. I personally know that I would abide by my orders, Name, Rank, SSN then take my torture like a man. I beleive in my stance on the take no prisoners issue, dead enemies don't come back another day to kill you, callused maybe. Deal with it I don't think I am the only one with that stance. Just like gun control laws, they are only for the lawabiding. Listen to John McCains account of the Geneva Convention.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

[Jeremy Eaton]

[sparky]

I do. I just LOVE Amy Goodman. If only all journalists had her integrity and bravery. I remember her broadcast from Indonesia when thugs sponsored by our ally Suharto mowed down 250+ peaceful protesters with US-supplied M-16's.

I wonder if Indonesian fascists also deny the legitimacy of such atrocities like their U.S. counterparts. I can imagine their attempts to spin such a massacre.

[Marine4life]

Jeremy, I am not a big McCain supporter. I just have a lot of respect for what he went through. Like Capt. John Denton one of the first POW's off of the plane in Hawaii. My sister had his bracelet and she called the number on T.V.. It took about 3 hours but she talked to his wife and eventually him. She sent him the bracelet. My other sister wasn't so lucky her soldier hasn't come home. Semper Fi.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

LOL! Ohmigod, now they're quoting "Err Amerika" ????

Truly LOL!
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[ROTC DAD]

Scott,

I agree that we are not talking about the majority of the soldiers in Iraq when we are talking about abuse, but the same could have been stated of the German Army during WWII, to keep with the same analogy (though that is pushing the arguement a bit more than it should be).

Obviously, we are not as bad as Saddam. We are not mass murderers nor mass torturers. The problem, however, is that we have posited 27 different reasons for being in Iraq, the last of which was humanitarian. But the perception amongst the Iraqis is that that is just so much lip-service. And when we abuse them, which appears to be systemic within the military prison system set up there, we do nothing but prove them right, even if that perception is incomplete and inaccurate.

Greenhat,

you continue to agrue Rules of the Geneva Conventions and non-traditional combatants. As I have stated on at least 3 occassions, the International Red Cross has stated that they were told 70 to 90% of those detained had done nothing wrong! So your position about non-traditional combatants deals with 10 to 30% of this prison population. The possibility that innnocent people are being abused and tortured is extremely high. And again, the Rulse of the Geneva Conventions do not condone torture under any circumstances.

fortdixlover,

You continue to simply spout off without any basis in fact. Saddam was killing Kurds and Iraqis when he was considered one of our chief allies in the region, under a Republican President btw. We actually sold him many of the chemical agents he ended up using. There is more than enough blame to go around on this issue. And if you'll note, organizations such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the International Red Cross (Lefty organizations all) were denouncing the abuses in Saddam's Iraq for years before we here in the States even bothered to think about them.

[Greenhat]

[carpro]

[quote="Jeremy Eaton
I am more interested in McCains account of how Karl Rove slimed him in order to give Bush the nomination. Last time I heard McCain speak was on http://www.airamericaradio.com

Why don't you start another thread to deal with this topic. Seems a little out of place here.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[ROTC DAD]

Greenhat,

You fail to make a case. You asked if I know what the Rules of the Geneva Conventions are. I know that at least one of them deals with troture of combatants. I also know that the IRC has no reason to lie about what they say they were told by US officers.

Your position seems to be that if they are illegal combatants, meaning by your definition terrorists, saboteurs, and such, we can do whatever we like to them. The problem here is twofold: 1) the IRC has stated that the majority are not combatants, legal, illegal, or otherwise; and 2) Who is the illegal combatant - we invaded their country. And let's not forget that we did not invade for humanitarian reasons as we say now. That was the last of the 27 reasons we finally came up with when all the others did not pan out.

And again, you appear to ignore the evidence which points to this abuse being systemic i.e. throughout this prison system we have set up.

[sparky]

Greenhat wrote:

[carpro]

The Red Cross is a great organization.

Does anyone here believe that prisoners won't lie to them about their treatment?

That's one of the reasons they don't publish their findings.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[sparky]

As I posted, the Red Cross reached their conclusions after discussing the matter with US military officials there.

And their assertion was corroborated by our own Army investigation.

[sparky]

[Greenhat]