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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Oh man, a lively discussion. I won't bore you with several posts but will combine all in one:
I have been searching the web and have yet to find an accurate service record for Mr. Kerry upon his return to the states. Can some one please point me in the right direction to determine:
1) Was Kerry part of the naval reserve in 70/71 and later?
If so, was not his meeting in France with what's her face and his subsequent wearing of parts of the uniform in violation of several articles of the UCMJ?
2) Given 1 is true, why was Kerry never charged?
For kyleparr:
Padilla is the author and recipient of several communiques outlining specific terrorist type attacks. His plan for a dirty bomb was actually denied by his handlers as too complicated. Rather, he was directed to scout out several buildings as targets for attack. None of the buildings contained government or military occupants - solely civilians; men, women, children. Given the trace back identity of his handlers and the nature of the planned attacks what sane and logical individual would think him anything but a combatant? [See latest prosecution releases regarding Padilla] Yes, he does deserve due process and will get it. Between now and then thank heaven he's not walking the streets!
How soon folks forget the labs and camps north of Mosul, the mobile truck labs, the planes in the desert. Since the firm and resolved U.S. committment against terrorists and those countries who harbor them, the following has happened:
Libya: Declares and discontinues its nuclear programs. Other links to Iraqi plans and operations discovered.
Iran: Declares and opens for inspections, its nuclear programs. Links to terrorist groups identified - Iran disavows and withdraws support.
Pakistan: Top black-market trader of nuclear plans, parts and assistance identified, market closed.
Afganistan: Taliban no longer in power. Increased freedom for all citizens.
Palistine: Suicide bombers no longer subsidized by Iraq at $25,000 per boom.
Syria: Increased cooperation with U.N. and U.S. Increased intel.
Iraq: Money from oil sales actually making it to the people. Infrastructure being rebuilt, schools reopened, elections planned, interim government in place.
And if you come back with the puppet government statement again, I'll refer you to Japan and Germany 1945/46. I assure you it took a heck of a lot longer than one year to get them back on their feet yet afterwards they became free, democratic countries and I don't see us as an occupying force there. {Interesting note: France, who did not have a "puppet government" after the war has gone the whole gamit of democratic, socialist, communist, wonder what's next?}
As for the tax cut: That refund helped pay for my son's education and yes, I'm at the lower end of the spectrum in my opinion.
Anyone who has played with the DOD procurement process knows how unwieldly it is and how difficult oversight can be. Privatize? You're darn right. Get in, get it done, get out.
Lastly, from a coastie to the swifties, BZ all the way and thank you.
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Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jose Padilla is a lame-o gangbanger from Chicago with no knowledge or training in manufacturing bombs. The prosecution/executive branch has stepped on his rights so significantly that he will never be prosecuted. When he is walking the streets, thank George Bush and John Ashcroft.
The cultures in Western Europe and the culture in Japan are completely different from the culture in the Middle East. The plan will not work in a country where the primary driver is religious belief. Japan was not allowed to have a standing military for how long?
Apples and oranges. WWII has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Try comparing it to Israel and the West Bank. Things are not so tidy then, are they?
I point to the revised terror report to highlight the failure of the war on terror. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | Jose Padilla is a lame-o gangbanger from Chicago with no knowledge or training in manufacturing bombs. . |
Are you making this up?
I believe that is what this case is all about. Do you have info no one else has? I thought he was specifically trained in making bombs. Maybe I misunderstood.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Transcript of Press Conference on Padilla:
| Quote: | Let me tell you the sobering story of Jose Padilla.
In 1998, Padilla flew from Miami to Cairo, where he spent the next year and a half. He has admitted that in March of 2000, he attend the religious pilgrimage, the hajj, in Saudi Arabia. And there he met a man from Yemen who was a recruiter for al Qaeda, and they discussed the training opportunities al Qaeda offered in Afghanistan.
Two months later, at this recruiter's request, Padilla traveled in May of 2000 to Yemen where the recruiter introduced him to a sponsor, somebody who could arrange for his training in Afghanistan by al Qaeda.
In June of 2000, Padilla made that journey. He went to Pakistan, and then traveled overland to Kandahar, Afghanistan.
He has admitted that there he completed an application to receive training at an al Qaeda camp, sponsored by the man he met in Yemen, who helped him fill out the paperwork.
The FBI found Padilla's application to the al Qaeda training camp. They found it in a binder that contained 100 other such applications, type-written each with the title at the top, "Mujahideen Identification Form/New Applicant Form."
Padilla's application was dated July 24th of 2000 and bears one of his aliases, Abu Abdullah Muhajir (ph). It bears his date of birth, October 18th, 1970. It shows that he is an American citizen; that he speaks Spanish and English and is proficient at Arabic; that he has traveled to Afghanistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
Padilla has admitted that after filling out his application, he attended the Al Farouq (ph) al Qaeda training camp in September and October of 2000, using the name Abdullah al-Espani (ph).
Padilla says he went to the camp with the understanding that he would be sent to Chechnya to fight for jihad, although he recognized that the recruits of al Qaeda were offered no guarantees.
According to Padilla, his training included weapon's instruction on AK-47, on G-3, M-16, Uzi and other machine guns; training on topography, communications, camouflage, clandestine surveillance, explosives, including C-4 plastic explosives, dynamite and mines; as well as physical fitness and religious training.
Padilla completed this basic terrorist training successfully, and then spent three months in the fall of 2000 with other new al Qaeda recruits guarding a Taliban outpost north of Kabul, Afghanistan.
Padilla admits that he first met al Qaeda's military commander, Abu Hafs al-Masri, better known as Mohammed Atef. He met him in Afghanistan when Atef approached this American in the Al Farouq (ph) camp, and checked him out to gauge his suitability and his commitment to the cause. Atef no doubt spotted the tremendous value this American terrorist offered because he met with him again several times, even giving Padilla money to go back to Egypt to visit his wife.
In early 2001, Padilla walked into the American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, and said his passport had been lost in a market in Karachi and got a new one: a classic act of al Qaeda tradecraft designed to eliminate suspicious travel stamps and cover the nature of the traveler's work.
In April 2000, having completed his basic terrorist training and having found a mentor in the military leader of al Qaeda, Mohammed Atef, Padilla departed Karachi, Pakistan, and returned to Egypt, ending his first trip to Afghanistan.
Two months later, in June of 2001, Padilla returned to Afghanistan and sought out Mohammed Atef. He met with Atef at a safe house that was reserved for the instructors and the leaders of al Qaeda. According to Padilla, about a month later, his mentor Atef asked him a question. He asked his American disciple if he was willing to undertake a mission to blow up apartment buildings in the United States using natural gas. Padilla told him he would do it.
Atef then sent Padilla to a training site near the Kandahar airport, where Padilla would train under the watchful eye of an al Qaeda explosives expert and be trained with the man who was to be his partner in this mission to destroy apartment buildings, another al Qaeda operative. When Padilla saw this other operative, he recognized him immediately because he had known him from Florida.
Padilla and the other operative trained under the guidance of this explosives expert and learned about switches and circuits and timers. They learned how to seal an apartment to trap the natural gas and to prepare an explosion using that gas that would have maximum yield and destroy an apartment building.
I told you that Padilla recognized this other al Qaeda operative who was to be his partner, recognized him immediately. You will, too. Because that other operative was Adnan Shukrijumah, also known as Jafar or Jafar the pilot, a man that the attorney general and the FBI director told this country about last week; one of the seven we want so badly to find.
Padilla and Jafar, though, could not get along. That personality conflict led them to abandon this operation, although only temporarily, after Padilla reported to Atef that he didn't think he could work with Jafar and he couldn't work this operation alone.
As I continue with Padilla's story, let me note, as the attorney general and Director Mueller did last week, that Jafar took another path and remains out there somewhere and is extraordinarily dangerous: an explosives expert who is also an experienced commercial pilot.
Padilla admits that after this specialized explosives training, he spent much of September of 2001, including after the attacks of September 11, staying with Mohammed Atef at Atef's safe house near Kandahar. That was the same safe house where Atef was killed by American forces after it was bombed in November of 2001 in a military raid.
Padilla's life was spared only because he happened that night to be staying at the safe house run by his explosives teacher. But he returned and dug his mentor Atef's body out of the rubble. And then, according to Padilla, a decision was made that all Arab fighters had to be moved out of Afghanistan because the Americans were coming.
Padilla, armed with his assault rifle, joined many other al Qaeda fighters in moving to the Pakistan border to escape the American forces.
At that border, Padilla met Abu Zubaida for the first time. Abu Zubaida, one of the most important and powerful members of al Qaeda, was in charge at that border of sorting fighters into two groups: those who should continue on and be relocated to Pakistan and those who should be sent back into Afghanistan.
Padilla admits that after crossing into Pakistan he met Zubaida again at a safe house in Lahore, Pakistan. and then met with him, yet again, at another house in Faisalabad, Pakistan.
Padilla says it was at the place in Faisalabad that he and a new accomplice, a new partner, approached Abu Zubaida with an operation in which they proposed to travel to the United States to detonate a nuclear improvised bomb that they had learned to make from research on the Internet.
Padilla says Zubaida was skeptical about the idea of them building and deploying a nuclear bomb, but nonetheless told them he would send them on to see Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, also known as KSM, the operational leader of al Qaeda and the mastermind behind September 11.
We know separately that Zubaida did think the nuclear bomb idea was not feasible but he did think as well that another kind of radiological device was very feasible: uranium wrapped with explosives to create a dirty bomb. Zubaida believed this was feasible and encouraged Padilla and his accomplice to pursue it. He warned them, though, that it would not be as easy as they might think. But they seemed convinced that they could do it without getting caught.
Zubaida's plan was to use Padilla and his accomplice for Zubaida's own operations in the future. But they were so eager, so intent on carrying out an operation in the United States, that in March of 2002 he sent them to see Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, even going so far as to write a reference letter to Khalid Sheik Mohammed about Padilla, giving Padilla and his accomplice money and urging them to seek out KSM about the dirty bomb plot.
Zubaida separately called Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, told him about the dirty bomb project and also told him he didn't think it was practical, but he wanted Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to check it out himself and to evaluate it.
He told Khalid Shaikh Mohammed that he was free to use Padilla in his operations in the United States if he wished. Mohammed did meet with Padilla and his accomplice and he was, as Zubaida was, skeptical about the dirty bomb plot.
Instead, he suggested to Padilla and his accomplice that they undertake the apartment building operation that had originally been conceived by the now-dead Mohammed Atef, the former military leader of al Qaeda.
KSM suggested that they enter the United States by way of Mexico or by way of Puerto Rico, and that once in the country, they locate high-rise apartment buildings that had natural gas supplied to all floors, that they rent two apartments in each building, seal those apartments, turn on the gas, and set timers to detonate and destroy the buildings simultaneously at a later time. This was precisely the mission that Padilla and Jafar had trained for, and now Padilla had a new accomplice.
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed gave Padilla full authority to conduct an operation if he and his partner succeeded in entering the United States.
I should note that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was not himself sure which operation Padilla intended to carry out. By that I mean in Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's mind, it was still possible that Padilla was going to pursue the dirty bomb plot. What KSM knew for sure, however, was that he had authorized this explosives-trained al Qaeda operative to mount an attack in the United States.
Padilla, for his part, admits that he presented the dirty bomb plot to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed just as he admits he presented it to Abu Zubaida. Padilla says that Muhammad wanted him to hit apartment buildings in New York, although they also talked about Florida and Washington, D.C.
Padilla was given the discretion about choosing the apartment targets.
According to Padilla's new accomplice, who is also in custody, the one who replaced Jafar, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed wanted them to blow up 20 apartment buildings simultaneously.
In response, Padilla pointed out that he could not possibly rent that many apartments without drawing attention to himself, and that he might have to limit this operation to the destruction of two or three entire apartment buildings.
Padilla, by his own admission, accepted this terrorist assignment. Although, as our answer to Sen. Hatch notes, he continues to maintain that he was not in the United States for that reason, and he was never really planning to go through with it.
He does admit, however, that after accepting Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's assignment, Ramzi Binalshibh, who was the coordinator and organizer of the 19 hijackers on September the 11th, trained Padilla in using telephones securely and in al Qaeda's e-mail protocol.
And Khalid Shaikh Mohammad himself, according to Padilla, gave $5,000 cash to Padilla. And then Amar al-Beluki (ph), who is Khalid Shaikh Mohammad's right-hand man, gave Padilla another $10,000 in cash, travel documents, a cell phone, an e-mail address to be used to notify al-Beluki (ph) when the operative Padilla reached the United States.
Padilla also says something else remarkable. He says that the night before his departure, he and his accomplice attended a dinner with Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, with Ramzi Binalshibh and with Amar al- Beluki (ph). That is, the night before Jose Padilla left on his mission to the United States, he was hosted at a farewell dinner by the mastermind of September the 11th, and the coordinator of those attacks.
After that dinner, Padilla departed Pakistan on April the 5th, 2002, bound for the United States, by way of Zurich.
After spending a month in Egypt, Padilla traveled on and arrived at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on May the 8th of 2002. He was carrying over $10,000 in U.S. currency given to him by his al Qaeda handlers. He was carrying the cell phone provided to him by Amar al-Beluki (ph), Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's right-hand man.
He was carrying the names is telephone numbers of his recruiter and his sponsor, and the e-mail address for Amar al-Beluki (ph), who he was to contact upon safely reaching the United States.
Padilla was arrested by the FBI in Chicago on a material witness warrant authorized by a federal judge in New York. And he was transferred to Manhattan where I was then the United States attorney.
He was appointed a lawyer at public expense. And we set about trying to see if he would tell the grand jury what he knew about al Qaeda.
With time running out in that process, on June 9th of 2002, just about two years ago, the president of the United States ordered that Padilla be turned over to the custody of the Department of Defense as an enemy combatant, where he remains.
We have decided to release this information to help people understand why we are doing what we're doing in the war on terror and to help people understand the nature of the threat we face, and in particular to help people understand why it is so important that we find Jafar, Adnan Shukrijumah, the pilot trained with Padilla in explosive destruction.
Much of this information has been uncovered because Jose Padilla has been detained as an enemy combatant and questioned. We have learned many things from Padilla that I'm not going to discuss today and that we did not include in our answer to Sen. Hatch.
Had we tried to make a case against Jose Padilla through our criminal justice system, something that I, as the United States attorney in New York, could not do at that time without jeopardizing intelligence sources, he would very likely have followed his lawyer's advice and said nothing, which would have been his constitutional right.
He would likely have ended up a free man, with our only hope being to try to follow him 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and hope -- pray, really -- that we didn't lose him.
But Jose Padilla was more than a criminal defendant with a broad menu of rights that we offer in our great criminal justice system. On May the 8th of 2002, a soldier of our enemy, a trained, funded and equipped terrorist, stepped off that plane at Chicago's O'Hare: a highly trained al Qaeda soldier who had accepted an assignment to kill hundreds of innocent men, women and children by destroying apartment buildings; an al Qaeda soldier who still hoped and planned to do even more by detonating a radiological device, a dirty bomb, in this country; an al Qaeda soldier who was trusted enough to spend hour after hour with the leaders of al Qaeda, Mohammed Atef, Abu Zubaida, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; an al Qaeda soldier who had vital information about our enemy and its plans; and lastly an al Qaeda soldier who, as an American citizen, was free to move in, within and out of this country.
Two years ago, the president of the United States faced a very difficult choice. After a careful process, he decided to declare Jose Padilla for what he was, an enemy combatant, a member of a terrorist army bent on waging war against innocent civilians. And the president's decision was to hold him to protect the American people and to find out what he knows.
We now know much of what Jose Padilla knows. And what we have learned confirms that the president of the United States made the right call and that that call saved lives. |
The Truth will out!
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Had we tried to make a case against Jose Padilla through our criminal justice system, something that I, as the United States attorney in New York, could not do at that time without jeopardizing intelligence sources, he would very likely have followed his lawyer's advice and said nothing, which would have been his constitutional right.
He would likely have ended up a free man, with our only hope being to try to follow him 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and hope -- pray, really -- that we didn't lose him. |
I question this. I believe all Grand Jury testimony is sealed and I also believe there are provisions for protecting National Security that do NOT involve holding a man in custody for two years without charging him. He also never got to see an attorney.
As for the incompetence of the Justice Department to track him, that is a different story all together. Their incompetence is going to allow him to walk free after the Supreme Court rules in his favor.
The truth is that they are trashing the constitution because they have no real legal grounds to hold him. The President also fully believes in his dictatorial powers during war.
Charge Jose Padilla!! |
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BrianC
PO2
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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They CAN'T charge Jose Padilla.
Why?
Because that isn't his name.
He legally changed it to Abdullah al Muhajir before he went to Pakistan to train with al Qaeda. |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| GoophyDog wrote: | <snip>I have been searching the web and have yet to find an accurate service record for Mr. Kerry upon his return to the states. Can some one please point me in the right direction to determine:
1) Was Kerry part of the naval reserve in 70/71 and later?
If so, was not his meeting in France with what's her face and his subsequent wearing of parts of the uniform in violation of several articles of the UCMJ?
2) Given 1 is true, why was Kerry never charged?
<snip>
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Has anyone found anything on this? My searches are all coming up inconclusive.
_________________
Why ask? Because it needs asking. |
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waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Try this (thanks to John Moore's Useful Fools blog):
Kerry Quietly Changes Biography After Records Released
John Kerry's web site biography used to say[note 1] that he was a Naval Officer until 1970, and then a Naval Reservist from 1972-1978. I and other Vietnam veterans questioned this gap, which conveniently coincided with Kerry's anti-war activities, and which implied he was not in the military at that time - an "early out" not available to the rest of us.
Kerry's dates of service are no longer in his biography.
His newly released service record shows he was a sworn officer in the Navy Reserve from 1970-1972. Coincidence or the exposure of a cover-up?
Read the rest at
www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/2004_04.html
Semper Fi!
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| waltjones wrote: | Try this (thanks to John Moore's Useful Fools blog):
Kerry Quietly Changes Biography After Records Released
John Kerry's web site biography used to say[note 1] that he was a Naval Officer until 1970, and then a Naval Reservist from 1972-1978. I and other Vietnam veterans questioned this gap, which conveniently coincided with Kerry's anti-war activities, and which implied he was not in the military at that time - an "early out" not available to the rest of us.
Kerry's dates of service are no longer in his biography.
His newly released service record shows he was a sworn officer in the Navy Reserve from 1970-1972. Coincidence or the exposure of a cover-up?
Read the rest at
www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/2004_04.html
Semper Fi! |
Coincidence or cover-up?
Is there any doubt?
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know if the original Kerry bio has been archived for comparative purposes?
IMO, this is powerful stuff.
Moderator note:
I would invite those who might be well-versed in this issue to start a topic specifically addressing it. Don't be shy about copying and re-posting what you deem to be salient posts from this or other threads relating to it.
This particular thread has gotten long-in-the-tooth and, perhaps, it's time to close it and consolidate any pertinent information? Barring any objections in that regard, my intent is to lock it within one more day.
Please feel free to comment here if you think this thread should be continued.
Thanks
Last edited by Me#1You#10 on Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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GoophyDog
PO1
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Washington - The Evergreen State
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Mr. Jones. That exerpt from Kerry's service record is exactly what I was looking for.
Whether Kerry's bio has been altered or revised does remain to be proven yet the one fact does remain; Mr. Kerry testified at that sub-committee wearing a green fatigue shirt while still in the service - a clear violation of the UCMJ. That he did so in such a slovenly manner leaves no doubt in my mind of his utter contempt of his fellow servicemen. Regardless of the content of his testimony, this one event visually demonstrated that Mr. Kerry was not in the service of the United States.
Final note: If anyone crosses paths with Mr. John O'Neill, please pass on my thanks. I would not have been nearly as active in opposing John Kerry if it wasn't for his debate on the Dick Cavett show. Sir, despite the clearly biased audience you remained calm and focused. If I had been in your shoes I would have throttled the snobish fob.
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