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General McPeak, good riddance
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MJB
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Joined: 14 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Z Ombie AC2000 wrote:
Can you guys link a picture to what the air force usually wears and what a 'bus driver' air force uniform looks like?


Funny...I was just looking for this info the other day. Don't ask me why, but thoughts of maybe going back in the Reserves have been floating around in my head for a couple of days now....

When I was in, we called it AF Regulation 35-10...now, it's apparently AFI 36-2903 *sigh*.

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/36/afi36-2903/afi36-2903.pdf

If you click the link, you'll go to an electronic doc with dress and appearance regulations.

Page 18 has a snazzy, male Chief Master Sergeant wearing the uniform I remember from the mid to late 80's.

Page 14 shows what I believe is the current uniform...don't know if that's the bus driver one or not. The bus driver uniform was devoid of most pockets (which were quite prominent as you can see from page 18 ). The other complaint was that the bus driver AF uniform was supposed to look more like the Navy, more "corporate".

Not sure about the bucket caps - I had a terrific white and blue number...very professional I thought. But a recruiter I spoke with the other day said all bucket caps for men and women were being phased out. Flight caps only. Would love to hear an active duty confirmation of that.

The uniform on p. 18 shows our direct link back to the Army - uniforms are very similar.

You can check out the ladies wear on p. 38 - that's the uniform I remember. The new service dress uniform on p. 34 looks pretty snazzy I must say.

Although...*ahem* aligning the nametag and medals may or may not be made any easier with the "welt pocket" on the front of the jacket.... Wink



If anyone doubts the military has strict guidelines about how military documents are to be produced, just take a look at this set of guidelines as to how you wear your medals, your hat, trim your hair, type of purse to carry...etc.

You could always tell the young female lieutenants...we were the ones looking to see how large the pearls could be in our post earrings, or how individual the watch might be that we would wear. Cool

You knew you were starting to fit in when you wore the same pair of gold ball earrings day after day, and settled for a Seko watch instead of Mickey Mouse Laughing
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Righteous
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rovercop wrote:
As far as I knew, no one liked the fool. Indeed, I never had any contact with him personally, nor is it a General's goal to win popularity contests with his subordinates, but radical changes came about when he took the reins. Among other things, the McPeak regime disbanded my beloved 322 ALD (all Airlift Divisions were deemed obsolete) and redesigned our Service Dress (Class A's) in favor of the commercial airline look. BTW - did we get our service cap back? Wasn't he also the brainchild who scrapped MAC for AMC? Thank God he left our TALCE intact.

The fella lives in Oregon, and often embraced by a local news affiliate as an 'expert', who seems to become more critical of President Bush's administation with every appearance...seeing him on my boob-tube incites more anger in me than a Kerry image. I can only imagine how much the Swiftys despise Kerry if I get a gut reaction like that from McPeak.

Rovercop


Hey a TALCE guy


I am a C-17 pilot in a TALCE as an OPS officer attached for flying

Yes, Mc Peak's great contribution to the AF was to change our popular MAC/TAC/SAC/ATC for

AMC/ACC/AETC

change our blue signs to brown signs

hire some french pansy to design our class A's to look like a Airline pilot's uniform

generally to create so many useless changes in the Air Force that created huge upsets in asset control that we are still recovering today, I used to be a C-130 pilot, we went from MAC to AMC to ACC and then some SOME of us went back to AMC some stayed in ACC, what a nightmare

the lack of judgment of this guy is legendary and so I say I am glad that he supports Dean?!?!?!........... no wait ............Kerry (Kerry is the front runner this week right???)

I know it is off color to bash a general officer but this guy is truly a moron and it is consistant with his idiocy that he doesn't support President Bush.
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ashter
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Righteous you forget TQM, too.....lol
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EODARMY
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:18 pm    Post subject: McPeak Reply with quote

McPeak is really sickening: "I like and admire John Kerry. He simply has a great record of brave and skillful service to the country. He is sure to be a fine Commander-in-Chief, one we can all be proud of, and proud to follow."

The other one on this list that is sickening is ADM Crowe as he was appointed by Reagan!


http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0728a.html

12 Generals and Admirals Endorse John Kerry
Military Leaders to Speak and Take Part in Video Tribute in Boston Wednesday as Convention Focus Turns to Kerry-Edwards Plan to Make a Stronger, More Secure America
For Immediate Release

Boston, MA - In an unprecedented display of support from the military establishment, twelve retired generals and admirals endorsed John Kerry for president of the United States on Wednesday. These distinguished flag officers join the ranks of tens of thousands of veterans – including over 500 veteran delegates in Boston - who want a stronger, more secure America and their fellow veteran John Kerry to be the next Commander-in-Chief.

The endorsement comes on the day the convention is focused on the Kerry-Edwards plan to make a stronger, more secure America. General John Shalikashvili (Ret.) will speak at the Convention on Wednesday evening and be introduced by Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy (Ret.). There will be a special video tribute to John Kerry featuring distinguished flag officers talking about what is at stake in this election and why they support John Kerry to build a strong America, respected in the world.

"My son is a Navy sailor, my son-in-law is a Navy sailor, and my nephew is a Navy sailor. I want them, and all of America’s sons and daughters in uniform to have a new, wiser, better, and courageous commander-in-chief in John Kerry," said Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn (USN, Ret.)

"Success in the global war on terror requires enlightened U.S. leadership – leadership that knows the importance of listening to and working with other countries. Senator Kerry is such a leader, and as Commander-in-Chief, he will adapt our military to the unprecedented security demands faced by our country and its armed forces," said Lieutenant General Daniel Christman (USA, Ret.)

Kerry arrives in Boston for the convention Wednesday morning where he will be met by 13 crewmates and fellow veterans from Vietnam. Many of these individuals will also participate in the convention program on Thursday night before Kerry accepts the Democratic nomination

At the 2004 convention, veterans are playing a historic, unprecedented role with over 500 delegates who are veterans in attendance. On Monday, the first ever Veterans Caucus was held. Led by notable veterans like Wesley Clark, former Senator Max Cleland and former Senator Bob Kerrey, over 2,000 veterans and members of military families attended. Veterans have also held grassroots ‘Basic Training’ sessions to learn how they can help organize veterans in their own communities and help elect John Kerry.

The Kerry-Edwards campaign has set a goal of organizing one million veterans by Election Day. Recruited through the 50 state-level Veterans for Kerry organizations, these one million veterans will be used in grassroots, veteran-to-veteran operations, including phone-banks, canvassing and GOTV efforts.

John Kerry and John Edwards offer the right plan for our troops and the right plan for our country. They have proposed expanding America's active duty forces by 40,000 to relieve the strain on today's military, doubling America's special forces capability and increasing other specialized personnel to improve America's ability to conduct counterterrorism operations, perform reconnaissance missions and gather intelligence. John Kerry and John Edwards will ensure that our troops have everything they need to accomplish their mission.




The flag officers endorsing John Kerry are:
Lieutenant General Edward D. Baca (United States Army, Retired)

Baca served as Chief of the National Guard Bureau in Washington, D.C. where he was responsible for formulating, developing, and coordinating all policies, programs and plans affecting Army and Air National Guard personnel. During his tenure as head of the National Guard, Baca was one of the highest-ranking Latinos in the U.S. military. A native of New Mexico, Baca enlisted in the New Mexico Army National Guard in 1956, volunteered for service in Vietnam, and retired as a three-star general officer. Baca also served as the Adjutant General of the New Mexico National Guard where he exercised joint command over both the Army and Air National Guard of New Mexico.

“I am proud to have served our country in the military for over 41 years. I am even prouder that 4 of my children have worn the uniform of our armed forces. Three are still serving. As a combat veteran and proven leader, I know that John Kerry will never send them in harm’s way, without exhausting all means of diplomacy. Even then, it will be a last resort. God forbid if he ever has to, he will make sure that they are part of an armed force as best equipped, best training, and most respected in the world.”

Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman (United States Army, Retired)

Christman served as the Superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. He also served for two years as Assistant to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, during which time he represented the U.S. as a member of NATO's Military Committee in Brussels, Belgium. He is a combat veteran of Southeast Asia where he commanded a company in the 101st Airborne Division. Christman was born on May 5, 1943 and is a native of Hudson, Ohio.

“Success in the global war on terror requires enlightened U.S. leadership – leadership that knows the importance of listening to and working with other countries. Senator Kerry is such a leader, and as Commander-in-Chief, he will adapt our military to the unprecedented security demands faced by our country and its armed forces.”

General Wesley K. Clark (United States Army, Retired)

Wesley Clark was born December 23rd 1944 in Chicago, Illinois, and raised in Little Rock, Arkansas. He graduated first in his class from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1966 and received his Masters degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University where he was a Rhodes Scholar. In the Army, Clark rose steadily through the ranks, culminating in his service as the Commander-in-Chief of US Southern Command from 1996 to 1997 and NATO Supreme Allied Commander from 1997 to 2000. He retired from the Army in 2000. Clark and his wife Gert live in Little Rock, Arkansas and have one son.

"I ask you to join me in standing up for an American who has given truly outstanding service to his country in peace and in war. John Kerry has the right message and right character to bring the nation forward. Both John and I served in Vietnam -- and know what it is to be tested on the battlefield, fighting for your country. John Kerry never quit fighting for his country."

Admiral William J. Crowe (United States Navy, Retired)

Crowe served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest ranking officer in the U.S. military. Prior to serving as Chairman, he served as Commander in Chief in several areas, including the U.S. Pacific Command, Allied Forces in Southern Europe, U.S. Naval Forces in Europe and the Middle East Forces. He was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 1985 until his retirement from the Navy in 1989.

"The current administration has an overly simplistic view of how and when to use our military. By not bringing in our friends and allies, they have created a mess in Iraq and are crippling our forces around the world. John Kerry has a realistic understanding of the requirements of our military and the threats that we face."

Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn (United States Navy, Retired)

Gunn served as the Inspector General of the Department of the Navy until his retirement in August 2000. Gunn commanded the USS BARBEY and the Destroyer Squadron “Thirty-one,” a component of the U.S. Navy's Anti-Submarine Warfare Destroyer Squadrons. Gunn is from Bakersfield, California and is a graduate of the University of California, Los Angeles. He received his commission from the Naval ROTC program at UCLA in June 1965.

"My son is a Navy sailor, my son-in-law is a Navy sailor, and my nephew is a Navy sailor. I want them, and all of America’s sons and daughters in uniform to have a new, wiser, better, and courageous commander-in-chief in John Kerry."

General Joseph Hoar (United States Marine Corps, Retired)

Hoar served as Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Central Command. After the first Gulf War, Hoar led the effort to enforce the naval embargo in the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, enforce the no-fly zone in the south of Iraq. He oversaw the humanitarian and peacekeeping operations in Kenya and Somalia and also led the U.S. Marine Corps support for operations in Rwanda, and the evacuation of U.S. civilians from Yemen during the 1994 civil war. Hoar was the Deputy for Operations for the Marine Crops during the Gulf War and served as General Norman Schwartzkopf's Chief of Staff at Central Command. General Hoar was born in Boston, Massachusetts and graduated from Tufts University where he received his commission through the ROTC program.

"Sen. Kerry has demonstrated his courage in combat and his broad knowledge of international relations while in the Senate. He’s a leader who is not afraid to lead."

Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy (United States Army, Retired)

Kennedy is the first and only woman to achieve the rank of three-star general in the United States Army. Kennedy also served as Deputy Chief of Staff for Army Intelligence, Commander of the U.S. Army Recruiting Command, and as Commander of the 703d military intelligence brigade in Kunia, Hawaii. She was born in Frankfurt, Germany, and earned her commission as a second lieutenant in June 1969 through the Women's Army Corps.

"John Kerry understands the future as it is framed by the international community and by the people at home. He will make the right decisions about education, defense, intelligence, economic development both foreign and domestic, and sustaining international relationships. He is a leader I trust."

Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick (United States Army, Retired)

Kerrick served as Deputy National Security Advisor to the President of the United States where he was responsible for developing, implementing, and managing United States foreign and national security policies. He was a principal negotiator on the international Bosnia Peace Delegation that ended the Bosnian War, and served on the Steering Committee for the Protection of United States Critical Infrastructure. Kerrick holds a Masters degree from the University of Southern California and a Bachelors degree from Florida Southern College. He was awarded an honorary Doctor of Diplomacy from Florida Southern College. Kerrick was born on April 1949 in Bethesda, Maryland and was raised in Islamorada, Florida.

"The miscalculations of the last three years have severely stressed our armed forces both around the world and here at home. John Kerry understands the military and war. He is the right leader at the right time to restore America’s credibility around the world."

General Merrill “Tony” A. McPeak (United States Air Force, Retired)

McPeak served as the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force. Previously, McPeak served as Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Air Forces. He is a command pilot, having flown more than 6,000 hours, principally in fighter aircraft. General McPeak was born January 9, 1936 in Santa Rosa, California and entered the Air Force in 1957 as a distinguished graduate of the San Diego State College ROTC program.

"I’m a registered independent, but I like and admire John Kerry. He simply has a great record of brave and skillful service to the country. He is sure to be a fine Commander-in-Chief, one we can all be proud of, and proud to follow."

General John M. Shalikashvili (United States Army, Retired)

Shalikashvili served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest ranking officer in the U.S. military. Prior to serving as Chairman, he served as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe and also as the Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. European Command. He served as Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Army in Europe and during the first Gulf War in 1991, assumed command of Operation Provide Comfort, the relief operation that returned hundreds of thousands of Kurdish refugees to Northern Iraq. Shalikashvili is a naturalized U.S. citizen and was born in Warsaw, Poland on June 27, 1936.

"I believe in John Kerry. As a young man, he heeded his country’s call to service when it needed him. He commanded in combat and did so with bravery and distinction. He knows from experience a commander’s responsibility to his troops. He stands with our troops and with their families."

Admiral Stansfield Turner (United States Navy, Retired)

Turner served as the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency from 1977-1981.

Previously, he served in the U.S. Navy as Commander of the U.S. Second Fleet and NATO Striking Fleet Atlantic. Turner also served as the Commander-in-Chief of NATO's Southern Flank, and as President of the Naval War College. Before promotion to Admiral in 1970, he served on destroyers off the shores of Korea and Vietnam, and as executive assistant and naval aide to two Secretaries of the Navy. A native of Highland Park, Illinois, Turner received his commission from the United States Naval Academy and was a Rhodes Scholar.

"George Bush as the Commander-in-Chief has got us into a morass in both Iraq and Afghanistan. John Kerry is a true veteran, and would be a much better commander-in-chief."

General Johnnie E. Wilson (United States Army, Retired)

Wilson served as the Commanding General of the U.S. Army Material Command, and was responsible for the Army's wholesale logistics, acquisition and technology generation operations. He was born on February 4, 1944 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and raised in Lorain, Ohio. He entered the Army in August 1961 as an enlisted soldier and retired n 1999 as a four-star general. Wilson is one of just four African-Americans to earn four stars in the U.S. Army's more than 200-year history. Wilson held a wide variety of important command and staff positions including Deputy Chief of Staff for Logistics, and Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army Materiel Command.

"Senator Kerry is a principled, patriotic leader with the requisite skills to lead America in the 21st century."
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coldwarvet
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

General Richard B. Myers - 15th Joint Chief. It is hard to believe how General McPeak could serve in the same Air Force with General Myers.

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reconflyer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McPeak AKA Skeletor was the author of the "compost" wing and many of the changes already pointed out above...

But to the "sweaties" or enlisted aircrew, his biggest slight was the introduction of the "fag bag", the redesigned flight suit. It had faux crease up the front of the legs, no thigh pockets, stupid epaulettes and was cut to fit skinny people, I mean really skinny people, like marathon runners.

After looking at it for a while (most of us sweaties started jealously preserving our traditional flightsuits, you know, not drying them in the dryer so they wouldn't get threadbare so fast) we figured it was designed for the fighter pilot in mind. No thigh pockets: no problem for use with G-suit, pen pocket in leg (on the stupidly deep and narrow leg pockets), again, useful for the perpetually sitting jock, super slim cut, well, that's because Skeletor wanted that, gay epaulettes, I'm still trying to figure that one out.

We all probably had to do duty in a "fag bag" at one point or another, just because we ran out of the old ones. Soon we started looking for them (old ones) at Army/Navy stores and Brigade Quartermaster.

Thankfully, the Air Force went back to the traditional flight suits a couple of years after Skeletor hit the road. The only difference was the leg pocket zipper fastened in the opposite direction, go figure...

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Righteous
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashter I forgot about TQM

AAAAUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!

Great now I will have nightmares about compliance checklists and documentation for the next month, thanks a lot!



did you know that for McPeak's retirement party, they had to give away the tickets that in the past were highly coveted? In the past it was a huge deal to attend the outgoing chief of staff's retirement party, these tickets were rationed out and usually went to the best performers but nobody wanted to attend McPeak's so they had to give the tickets away

there is a stong tradition in the armed services of putting up with poor leadership with a tight smile and bearing but in retrospect we should have called the emperor on his new clothes, so now we have ourselves to blame
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reconflyer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooohhhh.... TQM!

"I'm going to empower you guys with the ownership of that process, after we convene a process improvement group (PIG) so we can brainstorm a quality journey for our process improvement model. After that, we'll convene a tiger team and shake the bushes for the most efficient buy in, here's a pareto chart to prove it..."

"Our inspectors for the QAFE (quality air force evaluation) will be here for a sensing session next tuesday, so I want the green tea and the crumpets ready for them."

rember our customer and our product:

OUR PRODUCT IS CORPSES AND BROKEN AND BURNING STUFF! OUR CUSTOMER? UNCLE SAM. Nuff said.

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Polaris
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I served under Gen. McPeak. At the time I was a top-notch Comm. Operator in ESC. I and most other enlisted members simply refused to wear the new uniform....and while our C.O. said over and over again that we should wear the new uniform, most of our officers didn't either....including the XO.

As for TQM, I was in the unique position of being good enough in my job to be indispensible, but low enough ranking to say pretty much what I wanted (since I was looking to go back to school at the time). I told the civilian TQM instructors in no uncertain terms that TQM was crap because it ran directly contrary to the chain of command and the authority needed by our NCOs. My First Shirt was in the same group that I was....and looked distinctly uncomfortable during that session.

Afterward he said privately, "I wish I could have said that. Thanks."

That's just my experience(s) with McPeaks brainchildren.
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MJB
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polaris wrote:
I served under Gen. McPeak. At the time I was a top-notch Comm. Operator in ESC.


Where were you stationed? I was a Flight Commander at Elmendorf and then stationed at ESC HQ in San Antonio...with a short stop at a joint unit at Lackland.

....And I was in the TQM shop at HQ Laughing !

I have to say, as a trainer and consultant while in the AF, I have been in the training field for almost 15 years because of that experience.

So, like, you guys didn't want to brainstorm serial objectives to cross-link your strategic initiaitves with team-oriented metrics for cross fertilization of embeded PDCA analysis? Mr. Green
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drjohn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to ask you guys how someone like McPeak comes to be, but after reading your posts I think I get it.

Thanks for the illumination.
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Polaris
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJB wrote:
Polaris wrote:
I served under Gen. McPeak. At the time I was a top-notch Comm. Operator in ESC.


Where were you stationed? I was a Flight Commander at Elmendorf and then stationed at ESC HQ in San Antonio...with a short stop at a joint unit at Lackland.


6981 ESG. "Top of the Hill". I worked in the SCIF (generally as the mid-shift supervisor).

Quote:

....And I was in the TQM shop at HQ Laughing !


I'm sorry.

Quote:

I have to say, as a trainer and consultant while in the AF, I have been in the training field for almost 15 years because of that experience.

So, like, you guys didn't want to brainstorm serial objectives to cross-link your strategic initiaitves with team-oriented metrics for cross fertilization of embeded PDCA analysis? Mr. Green


Umm........ No. Confused Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJB,

I think we may know each other....because my job in addition to my other duties was Flight TASO (Terminal Area Security Officer) and general computer guru on the off-shift (the flights rotated but SC usually did not except on a monthly basis....then again SC also pulled 12 hour shifts).

If you are one of the LTs, then you know perfectly well that the Colonel had to beg us (more than once) to follow McPeaks directives...there was *ahem* considerable resistance shall we say....
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJB wrote:
So, like, you guys didn't want to brainstorm serial objectives to cross-link your strategic initiaitves with team-oriented metrics for cross fertilization of embeded PDCA analysis?


Why do I have this image in my head now?

Quote:
And the Mad Scientist leaned over the body of Robert MacNamara and screamed "IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!"?

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MJB
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polaris wrote:
MJB,

I think we may know each other....because my job in addition to my other duties was Flight TASO (Terminal Area Security Officer) and general computer guru on the off-shift (the flights rotated but SC usually did not except on a monthly basis....then again SC also pulled 12 hour shifts).

If you are one of the LTs, then you know perfectly well that the Colonel had to beg us (more than once) to follow McPeaks directives...there was *ahem* considerable resistance shall we say....


I was on The Hill from late '85 to late '88, then PCSing to the joint unit at Lackland. That would be cool if we had been there at the same time! Six degrees of separation and all that...

If memory serves, I think I was Baker flight commander...funny how little details have kept coming back over these last couple of weeks Smile . I think the uniform nonsense arose when I was at the headquarters....

And I just have to say...I always loved the nickname "L.T." Smile When used by a senior NCO, it could be said in an affectionate tone, an exasperated tone, a chiding tone...they could say a lot in one phrase!

My tour at Elmendorf was very...interesting. I look back on it as one of the formative experiences of my life...and yet there were times there when I wished I could have been a thousand miles away from there...usually at 4:00 a.m. on a midshift!
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