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Tom2
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Anker-Klanker wrote: | | Somewhat off-topic, and somewhat on-topic... (but certainly related) Rod Dreher is a Dallas Morning News columinst, who heretofore I've felt was among the slightly left-leaning - which makes the column he ran in the DMN about a week ago even more remarkable. I don't agree with all of his article, but it is especially informative as to where terrorism came from, and the mentality of the Islamist Terrorist. When you read the article, please remind yourself that this is almost certaintly a valuable clue as to how the radical, anti-western culture, Islamist extremist thinks (feedback to the article indicates that too many people get hung up on what Qutb accuses western culture of, instead of realizing that however these extremists came by their beliefs, this is probably the mindset we're up against.) Opinion Columnist Rod Dreher...I think this column makes it abundantly clear that we're in a fight to the death with the Islamist Facists - wherever we chose, or are forced, to fight them. |
Great find Anker-Klanker and IMO, it's smack on target. I've discussed this with a couple of buddies one of whom pointed me to your post. Admittedly, this guy probably has something and this is what he has for me.
Overall, Qutb's followers will have to explain to me what all those children did that justifies murdering them. I'm never gonna' forgive these neurotic animals for believing they have to challenge life on this planet and I believe we long ago passed the point where we need to prevail idealogically. Everyone I know and respect just wants to get along -- not prevail. IMO, these brainwashed zealots will not accept that and our only alternative is clear.
I live in the Dallas area and quit reading the DMN more than a year ago even though it's the only paper in town. I could not stomach the left-wing, border-line-socialist tone in this rag and quit amidst a flurry of email protests. It bagan when they put Garry Trudeau's crap back on the comics page, a despicable act that I tolerated even though IMO, it's an attempt to turn, however slightly, childrens' heads to the left. Then they fully supported and defended a no-name, uneducated open-borders hack named Macarena Hernandez in her continuous diatribes against the gringo and for the poor scofflaws who only want to support their families. I don't remember the political leanings of Rod Dreher, author of this piece, but I'm gonna bet he warned against an attitude of condescension while he maintains it for his readers.
For example, he accuses Americans of believing that with understanding, all things can be worked out. I'm guilty of that. Diplomacy is always better than violence and with enough talk, violence usually can be avoided. And this Qutb aberration, he spends two years with us, in Colorado no less, and developed an unforgiving hatred of me, my family and our way of life. In fact, he could not abide our spiritual wasteland and assumed his role was to destroy it. Now I've been to Greeley and it's one of the most beautiful places in the entire world, but this nihilistic SOB couldn't see it. Instead, of his experience, he told his listeners, "...plant the seeds of hatred, disgust and revenge in the souls of these children..." Is thIs that not a mental illness? But as I said earlier, IMO, we're way past that point with these deranged monsters.
Dreher points out that Qutb said the west was able to leap frog far ahead of the islamic world, in science and technology, because it divorced itself from God. I'd say balderdash to that crock of spin. IMO, the west embraced what God gave us, brains and energy, and it simply made the best of what was provided. There was no sinister aim to get ahead of islam or worse, destroy it. It seems we just did what we thought best, including worship, prayer and all things theological, if we felt like it. This maniac couldn't tolerate freedom as we know it. It was beyond his disordered soul to permit free will. In his mind, only some anointed mullah could be permitted to direct one's actions. We rejected that with the Magna Carta, or perhaps earlier.
Dreher, in the end, implies that followers of islam are being misled into a world of misery and underaccomplishment but hopes to make us understand their lunatic and sociopathic goals. All those frequent and devastating acts of terrorism over the past 30 years make Dreher's article irrelevant to me. It's simply too late. For my money, I really don't care anymore whether the every-day moslem has purpose, dignity or even happiness. I want them to stop demanding that I understand them. It's time they get along for a change and the alternative for them is terrible beyond what they've experienced thus far. Dreher redeems himself by admitting Qutb was quite mad but can't quite condemn him completely and he even provided a link to this crumb's pamphlet.
In closing out my diatribe for the day, I'd opine Nasser did the world a favor by executing this simple-minded crackpot even though it created another martyr to be adored and followed by like-minded idiots. One thing Dreher got right in his article. It's important to understand them. But IMO, I agree with you, Anker-Klanker, that it's correct primarily from a military strategy point of view.
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I B Squidly
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 879
Location: Cactus Patch
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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If you I can dust my memory of Cohen's classic the chorus ends....
....and we won't be back til it's over,
Over There!
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Watching some documentaries on the Discovery Channel last night, my wife and I both were struck with a lack of National Anger over the 9/11 attacks. Sadly, many seem to have forgiven and moved on, only half-heartedly supporting the war effort and the troops.
The left seems to be clinging to a misguided and misdirected anger to fuel their anti-war rhetoric and I fear once again, our troops will be withdrawn before they can finish the task they were assigned to do.
September 11, Where Is The Anger?
The country had righteous anger after Pearl Harbor and that anger was channeled into resolve, discipline and determination to be victorious against the enemy. Where is it today?
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Doll
Commander
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 339
Location: The Beltway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | Watching some documentaries on the Discovery Channel last night, my wife and I both were struck with a lack of National Anger over the 9/11 attacks. Sadly, many seem to have forgiven and moved on, only half-heartedly supporting the war effort and the troops.
The left seems to be clinging to a misguided and misdirected anger to fuel their anti-war rhetoric and I fear once again, our troops will be withdrawn before they can finish the task they were assigned to do.
September 11, Where Is The Anger?
The country had righteous anger after Pearl Harbor and that anger was channeled into resolve, discipline and determination to be victorious against the enemy. Where is it today? |
Excellent discussion and many great points here that I concur with. There is no clear cut answer to your question Lew and perhaps it is meant more rhetorically than an actual concrete answer.
IMHO I believe many, not all, but many have become very me oriented. Very selfish and self-serving. The concept of sacrifice and giving up some of ones own liberties for the greater good of the people and nation seems to be a fleeting thought, something that was in the past, not for the likes of us today, and this selfishly pathetic attitude is very prevalent within our society.
The "Jersey Girls" that were so coveted by the left are a mere example of selfishness gone to seed, gone to rot. Ann Coulter in her book, "Godless", called it what it was, "these women are profiting off their husbands deaths." That seems to be normal in our society. Make money for yourself at others expense.
It is not ironic that Fox News reported yesterday that the Dem's in the House are responsible for voting down the proposal to increase minimum wages. Yet to hear the Dem's tell it, it is the Republicans fault, yet it was all Dem's in the House that voted against it. Similar to the war on terror, aka skerry, he voted for the war on terror before he voted against it. Whatever way you look at it, the Dem's are the party of 'cut and run' and many Americans are following suit.
It is all about money, how one can personally prosper, sometimes at the expense of others. It is the worst sort of Capitalism.
Honor seems to be a dirty word, patriotism even dirtier. No there is no outrage amongst many when it comes to Sept. 11, just a forgive mentality of appeasement.
I ask, how many times does one sleep with the enemy before they realize they have betrayed everything that is considered honorable, pure, and of a good report?
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LimaCharlie
PO2
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Many people have extremely short attention spans, a national form of Attention Deficit Disorder. Ironically the government’s success in stopping another September 11th contributes to the Left’s lack of anger and belief in a global war on terror. Unfortunately, I think the only way to keep them focused is to have a major attack somewhere in America about every three months. The fact that it as not happened again in five years is proof to them that it was Bush’s fault.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | The country had righteous anger after Pearl Harbor and that anger was channeled into resolve, discipline and determination to be victorious against the enemy. Where is it today? |
Twenty and thirty years after WWII, my grandparents could not say "German" or "Japanese" without appending various derogatory terms.
That bitterness didn't come from general racism - they had German and Japanese friends and neighbors who they loved - the bitterness came from the sense of betrayal and outrage at the unjust atrocities committed against us and the world.
Outside of little pockets of wariness, you don't see that in our country. No bitterness toward our enemy for the innocent lives lost, for the innocents who have been deprived of husband or mother or child.
We are conciliatory. We assume that we are at fault. We look to take the high road. Anything to get things smoothed over and get back to "normal."
With a few exceptions, we don't even know who the enemy is or why we are fighting. (And that's how the kook fringe has been able to gain a toehold - because normal people don't want to believe that their relatively calm and prosperous life is gone.)
We talked about this on 9-11; "The world as we knew it is gone. The ramifications go many generations into the future, etc., etc."
We seemed to understand something vital about the world, that day.
But now I think that for many people, that was just a manner of speaking - an attempt to encapsulate the enormity of the day. It was just words mouthed without a clear understanding of what it was we were saying.
I'm afraid we have at least one more day of reckoning before it sinks in - but as dense as we are, probably more than one.
The world as we knew it is gone and all the wishful thinking and denial in the world is not going to make it come back.
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| LimaCharlie wrote: | | Many people have extremely short attention spans, a national form of Attention Deficit Disorder. Ironically the government’s success in stopping another September 11th contributes to the Left’s lack of anger and belief in a global war on terror. |
LC, I believe you make the critical error of suggesting that the views of the left are fact-based and they might somehow be dissuaded, manipulated or directed by a cogent argument based on reality.
"Reality" for leftists is what they want "reality" to be, and even a 2X4 of "Truth" won't make a dent in their propaganda.
I think, perhaps, you might be referring more to the general population (as opposed to the "left") and, IMHO, you would do well not to confuse the two. |
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Anker-Klanker
Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Richardson, TX
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| There is undoubtedly a multitude of reasons behind all the complaceny we're witnessing. But one thing that really stands out as a difference between now and WWII, is that in WWII the press, Hollywood, and all the celebrities were on our side. The constant barrage of pro-war then, and anti-war now, makes a BIG difference in how ordinary people regard current events - and maybe the single biggest difference! |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LimaCharlie wrote: | | Many people have extremely short attention spans, a national form of Attention Deficit Disorder. |
LimaCharlie, my good friend from Qui Nhon, I couldn't agree with you more. Add to the national short attention span, the fact that the Liberals use the teachings of Joseph Goebells who taught that a lie repeated enough times will be believed as truth and we have come to the state of affairs today. The public is complacent; they don't believe that we could ever be attacked again and it's all George Bush's fault that there is terrorism in the first place.
What our federal government needs to do is hire a kick-butt advertising team; give them a healthy budget; and repetitively inform the public that terrorism is here to stay until we win the war against terror. The public needs to be taught that it is patriotic to defend America; and that the terrorist actually ARE the enemy.
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Doll
Commander
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 339
Location: The Beltway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BuffaloJack wrote: | | The public needs to be taught that it is patriotic to defend America; and that the terrorist actually ARE the enemy. |
I find your statement so true BuffaloJack and ironic that any American would need to be taught that. 
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Doll,
They wouldn't need to be taught if they weren't already indoctrinated in Liberal culture and Liberal defeatism. It will take decades to reverse the effects of the a lifetime of Liberal dronings.
Jack
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Navyx3,
| Quote: | | ...Twenty and thirty years after WWII, my grandparents could not say "German" or "Japanese" without appending various derogatory terms.... |
Some of us still append appropriate adjectives to any sentence with "German" or "Japanese" included! And I'm pretty sure it wasn't the media that formulated my mindset! I had that mindset back as far as I can remember...so it's not just your grand parents generation, it's also the one that followed! Somewhere along the line, it became allright to buy a Nip vehicle...I for one can't imagine how that happened! I don't drink that Koolaid still!
To paraphrase Glen Beck...if anything untoward on the War on Terror WERE to happen in the good ole USA, Muslims in this country could easily suffer the same unfortunate history of the Japanese in the USA during WWII...for their own protection! And their return to the middle ages would be hastened as well, which IMHO they seem to want soo badly anyway! Any group who does not want to assimilate into a culture of freedom and liberty deserves what it gets! A minority group who in its wildest dreams seems to believe they can impose their will on the freedom lovers in this country will find a rough ride! Defeatocrats really need to get out of the 20th century and join us in the 21st ! Then I think we could hasten a solution as a nation, til then we're just working on a solution as a 'conservative party'. Bottom line ...profiling Muslims will only end when the explosions stop (or in some decade later)!
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LimaCharlie
PO2
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | LimaCharlie wrote: | | Many people have extremely short attention spans, a national form of Attention Deficit Disorder. Ironically the government’s success in stopping another September 11th contributes to the Left’s lack of anger and belief in a global war on terror. |
LC, I believe you make the critical error of suggesting that the views of the left are fact-based and they might somehow be dissuaded, manipulated or directed by a cogent argument based on reality.
"Reality" for leftists is what they want "reality" to be, and even a 2X4 of "Truth" won't make a dent in their propaganda.
I think, perhaps, you might be referring more to the general population (as opposed to the "left") and, IMHO, you would do well not to confuse the two. |
I personally separate the American population into many overlapping groups: the far left, the fiscal left, the social left, the defense left, the two or three people who are truly independent (neutral on all issues), the fiscal right, the social right, the defense right, and the far right. I am very far right on defense and fiscal issues, but neutral or somewhat left on many social issues.
The day after September 11th, most Americans appeared to be united in their outrage. Within weeks or even days, the far left were back to hating Bush and pushing their vast rightwing conspiracy issues. In the months and years after the attack, more and more people are forgetting we are in a war of survival against people that want to kill everyone that does not convert to their brand of Islam. Many people think life is like watching the CSI show on television. They find all of the clues, run all of the tests, catch the perpetrator, and wrap everything up in an hour including commercial breaks. This war of survival will be measured in generations, not wrapped up in an hour as those with the short attention spans expect.
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I was going to become an anarchist, but they had too many rules. |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ohn Kerry, Failed 2004 Democrat Presidential candidate and anti-war activist from the 70s, was quoted as saying, “America’s veterans and American troops don’t need misleading speeches,” and “Enough with slogans and staged speeches calculated to divide here at home…” I totally disagree. |
I do agree - so, is he gonna shut up or is someone glue his lips together?
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Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
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Deuce
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 589
Location: FL
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Stevie,
Bears repeating...often:
| Quote: | | John Kerry, Failed 2004 Democrat Presidential candidate and anti-war activist from the 70s |
and anyone dumb enough to listen to his tripe should have his head examined!
Deuce |
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