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SmokeOnTheWater
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: Apology |
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I apologize profusely... I am not a vet. I was sent a link directly to the forum and I didn't realize where I was. My mistake. This post will be my last to this board.
My father was a Marine in WW1 and my brother marched up the beach in Normandy. Both of them came home safely and lived long lives. Towards the end of their lives they both talked about things they'd done in the war that they were not particularly proud of. My brother (who was also a psychiatrist) explained that people will do things in a group that they wouldn't usally do when they're by themselves. He called this "group psychology" and claimed that he was affected by it on a few occasions during the war.
My father and brother were good, honest, kind men. But both of them admitted to doing things during wartime that were less than commendable. I was not even a little bit surprised at the prison abuses recently reported. My father shared with me how scared and angry war can make a young man. He would cry remembering these feelings 50 years later.
I am not a Kerry supporter, but I am not happy with Bush. I do not agree with much of what is written here because it seem to unsupported. For instance Marine4Life wrote:
| Quote: | | We all know that what one President does in office doesn't take effect for at least 4-8 years right? |
No, I don't know that. When Bush offered the child tax credit last year to millions of Americans he actually said otherwise. He claimed that the spending generated by the tax credit would improve the economy almost immediately. I didn't believe that either, by the way. I don't know how long it takes for a president to affect the economy, but I don't think you do either.
Yes, Cam Ranh '71, Clinton had sex in office. Yes, he lied about it. I'm getting to the point where I think EVERY president lies about something... Hell, every politicain lies about something (except maybe Jimmy Carter and we all know how popular he was). All I'm saying is that I don't even care who lies anymore, I just expect it. I don't care that Bush has lied (and I believe he has) I don't care that Kerry lied (and I believe he has). I'm not happy about foreigners getting more and more of our jobs (and Bush has condoned this). I'm not happy about fighting a war in Iraq when I never saw Iraq as a threat to the US (none of the terrorists were from Iraq, folks, and the weapons of mass destruction, real or otherwise, were never used against us). I heard Bush right before the war on Iraq say about Saddam: "this is the man who tried to kill my daddy." I'm starting to think that this is a grudge/oil war and it's taking troops and attention away from the real threat, Al-Qaeda. Quite frankly I don't think that either Kerry or Bush is the best man to help clean up Al-Qaeda.
Cam Ranh '71, where is this list that you talk about? Do you have a link to it? I'd be interested seeing some facts. I do not believe there is a "Dem Machine" any more than I believe that there is a "Rep Machine", please. Making comments like that is inflammatory and convinces people that there is a force working against them. Show me the "Dem Machine."
I'm glad that you have a list of "Tough Questions for Kerry." I'd love to hear his answers. I hope I have an opportunity to before I vote. Where's your list of "Tough Questions for Bush?" I think we all need to hear some answers from both sides before we vote. I'm not automatically endorsing any candidate without asking these questions. I'm surprised y'all are. |
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waltjones
PO2
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 392
Location: 'bout 40 miles north of Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject: Questions |
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Same answers for me as War Dog, all the way. I would also add "Do you think Kerry is not fit to command the United States Marine Corps because of the cover photo on his New Soldier book, which is a parody of the Iwo Jima memorial?"
YES!
Semper Fi!
_________________
Walt Jones (USMC, '65 - '69) It says much about the person who defends a man with no honor. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Walt! I agree on your "NO", and second it!
'Smokeonthewater', you do not belong here. Please go somewhere else where your hate-filled retoric is appreciated like www.** ! While I respect your relatives military service, this particular forum thread is strictly for veterans, and if you are not a veteran, you shouldn't be posting here!
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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xsquid
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm more than a little bit disapointed that this site has gone from a "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" forun to a "Let's Bash Kerry" forum. |
You seem to be confused about that the "truth " that is in the statement "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth". It's about Kerry. What makes you even remotely think the discussion would not be about him and what he has done?
| Quote: | | I don't know about y'all, but I was livin' high on the hog under the Clinton administration AND I felt safe. |
People that started receiving earned income credit, getting money back from the irs even though they payed nothing in, definitely started living high on the hog.
Clinton demolished the military and Bush has raised the budget for the VA more in a few years than clinton did in 2 terms. Try looking at the actual facts on factcheck.com.
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=144
Feel safe during Clinton? How about the embassy attacks and the uss cole. Maybe you should ask the people killed there how safe they felt. The USS Cole happened due to the miliraty budget butchering of Clinton. Naval vessels refuel out at sea traditionally. Clinton cut the navy by so much that the oilers were in moth balls and they had to start refueling in known terrorist ports such as Yemen. That's what they were doing there. The plans and training for the attack on the wtc started during clinton's term.
| Quote: | | I want to see cold, hard facts regarding Kerry's possible misconduct in the service, his demeanor upon his return home, |
For one thing Kerry admitted to performing atrocities in vietnam. That should be proof enough. Admission of guilt IS considered proof in any court of law. Go to sites like vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry and research the information yourself. If you are going to support someone thaen at least get off your butt and do your own research. Don't try to convince anyone taht you don't support Kerry, if you didn't you would not be here trrolling on a vets only forum defending him. It's a fact that his antics extended the war and was used against pow's. He was front man for vvaw that waved the enemie's flags and supported communism. The cover of his own book displayed a mocking of the iwojima monument with idiots raising an upside down flag. Your brother that was at normandy probably likes that shot.
Go to any veterans or military forum and see how we all feel about Kerry. Pretty much the only ones that support him will be non-military/veteran trolls that pop in....kind of tlike someone in this thread. |
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keefer fm MD
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Smoke, I'd go post elsewhere if I were you; your second and "last" post was riddled with talking points from the left. The guys in this blog are vets, and many of them served in one of the most difficult conflicts in modern history--Vietnam. They were young; they were misled; they were **** on by their government and press; they were spit on by "peace activists" when they returned home. That is, those who returned home. The ones who persevered are, IMHO, to be revered as American heroes; patriots we can all be proud to learn from. They have a lot to share.
So if you like trolling, I suggest you go to another site. Try blogs4bush if you like debating right-wingers. But leave your liberal talking points at the door; those guys will eat you alive too...
Hey guys, I hear that Kerry's popularity is dropping among veterans. It's about time; he has no status as one of us. Bush leads him, 56%-43%. I expect this gap to widen after September 12th...
_________________
Any day above ground is a good day... |
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xsquid
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Unfortunately most of the vets that do support Kerry are young and do not know about him. I go to one forum where myself and a much younger ex-airforce guy are the only vets. He was supporting John kerry until I showed him links to some of the thing's Kerry has done. Now he would not vote for Kerry if his life depended on it. His heart is in the right place, just young enough not to know about the scum Kerry. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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xsquid is correct. The majority of the people that support John Fonda Kerry only listen to the mainstream media, or watch stupid crap on TV. They know nothing of what is really happening with John Fonda Kerry or in the world. This is espically true with the young people and veterans. I saw a young kid yesterday at 'WallyWorld' that had a 'Veterans for John F Kerry' T-shirt and button on. He didn't look any older than 18 or 19. Shame, what a shame that some people are so naive and uninformed!
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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bw
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Just came accross another vet that seems critical of john from here. Dave Schmidt-USAF tac recon wing says "imho I thought he'd implode along time ago as he is a man without true moral center,he'd endanger our country for his own ambition." "We recognized that he had calculated that he could go farther in politics as a liberal,anti-war vet---He was an emty shirt blown up with his own sence of self importance.' This is kind of odd ,you see it's a guy that knew him in the VVAW in 71-72. b.  |
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ExWingWiper
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:17 pm Post subject: "The majority of the people that support John Fonda Ker |
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As apposed to the majority of the people that support George "Wack Job" Bush only listen to FOX news and Limbaugh for their news?
Despite the right-wing spin to the contrary, the corporate news media has been extremely gentle on Bush Jr. to the point of being complacent about this whole mess.
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It takes a lot more to be an real American than to have a "R" after your name! |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: "The majority of the people that support John Fonda |
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| ExWingWiper wrote: | As apposed to the majority of the people that support George "Wack Job" Bush only listen to FOX news and Limbaugh for their news?
Despite the right-wing spin to the contrary, the corporate news media has been extremely gentle on Bush Jr. to the point of being complacent about this whole mess. |
NY Times, Boston Globe or LA Times would beg to defer. Same could be said about Kerry, very little investigative reporting so far on him in the media. This is understandale since the left is only interested in AWOL or Halliburton stories to divert attention from empty-lying Kerry. When the media begins to start asking serious Kerry questions his run for the WH will be over. |
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hist/student
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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retracted
Last edited by hist/student on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DanVCC
Ensign
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Lutherville, MD, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:01 pm Post subject: Kerry voting record |
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"I want to see cold, hard facts regarding Kerry's possible misconduct in the service, his demeanor upon his return home, and his record as an elected official up to this point"
Rather than respond to the entire posting by this Kerry man, here is Kerry's factual record as an elected official.
ABORTION Voted to federally fund abortions. Voted against parental consent for minors. Voted against ban on Partial Birth Abortion (3 times) Voted against ban on sending money to UN population fund if the money was sent to pay for China forced abortion and sterilization policy. NARAL lifetime rating of 100% National Right to Life Committee lifetime rating of 0%
DEATH PENALTY Opposes federal death penalty. Voted against death penalty for terrorists. (recently flip-flopped in 2002) Voted against death penalty for drug-related murders.
TAXES & BUDGET Voted against Bush tax cut and wants to repeal portions of Bush tax cut. Voted for 1993 Clinton tax hike. (largest in history) Voted against major tax relief packages at least 10 times. Voted at least 5 times against balance budget amendments. Kerry voted at least five times to raid The Social Security Trust Fund.
MILITARY & NATIONAL SECURITY Voted for 7 major reductions in military funding Voted against Gulf War I (1991). Voted for Gulf War II (but then criticized and voted against military appropriation for troops). Voted against MX missile. Voted against Trident Submarine. Voted against SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative i.e. Star Wars). Voted against B-1 and B-2 Stealth Bomber and Fighter. Favored UN control of US Troops (in the 1970s). Supported Slashing $2.6 Billion from Intelligence Funding While Serving as a Member of Senate Intel Committee. Attended a seminar (the so-called "Winter Soldier Investigation) bankrolled by Jane Fonda in Detroit in February 1971 during which 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testified at a Howard Johnson's about atrocities allegedly committed by our own forces. Many of the so-called Veterans were frauds and virtually every alleged atrocity was investigated and proven to be false.
FAITH & VALUES Voted Against Defense of Marriage Act (to give states option to decide whether to recognize homosexual marriages in other states). Sent letter to Massachusetts Legislature opposing Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as solely between a man and a woman. Favors civil unions for homosexuals. Voted to extend hate crimes protections to homosexuals. Voted against a constitutional amendment on flag desecration.
EDUCATION Voted against voluntary school prayer. Voted against ban on human cloning. Voted against voucher pilot program. Voted against approving a school-choice pilot program
JUDGES, COURTS & LAW Voted against confirmation of Clarence Thomas for Supreme Court Justice. Voted against confirmation of Robert Bork for Supreme Court Justice. Voted against confirmation William Rehnquist as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Voted against confirmation John Ashcroft as US Attorney General. Voted against punitive damages in products liability cases. As Michael Dukakis Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates.
FOREIGN POLICY Against linking Most Favored Nation status to China human rights record. Voted for Kyoto Protocol on Environment that exempted major Third Word polluters. Supported Iraq regime change as late as January, 2003. Now has flipped-flopped For Unilateral nuclear Freeze. Voted against deployment of INF missiles in Europe.
POLITICAL ASSOCIATIONS Founder Member of VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) Attended and conducted anti-war and anti-American protests in the 1970s. Organized the Protests. Votes with Ted Kennedy an average of 94% of the time. Received $300,000 contribution from Johnny Chung as directed by Chinese intelligence officer. Supported Communist Sandinistas and visited with leader Communist Daniel Ortega days before Ortega flew to Moscow and received $200 million in Soviet aid. Has a lifetime rating of 26% from Citizens Against Government Waste. Has a lifetime rating of 0% from the National Rifle Association. Lifetime liberal vote rating of 93% from Americans For Democratic Action (5 points higher than Ted Kennedy). Voted with the liberal activist group, The League Of Conservation Voters, an average of 95% of the time. |
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h3digital
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: What did Reagan Say you brianwashed Bush supporters |
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Listen what did Reagan Say? "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?" Well ARe you? One thing about the Bush ads, he never talks about himself. Hmm, maybe he has nothing positive to say.
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Let the Truth be let out. |
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garb1015
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject: Bush vs Kerry? |
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Great post DanVCC.
As I have previously stated, in my opinion this site was not created as a Bush vs Kerry forum but to bring out the truth about what Kerry did over thirty years ago AND what he has done since becoming an elected official.
And to the people that continue to claim that this site is just a bunch of angry Viet Nam vets that want to get even with Kerry, let's hear some feedback on the political record in DanVCC's post. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Notice all the new people the last three days! Methinks we are being mass trolled! There is no way that this many new veterans have found this site. A pro Kerry / Democratic / Liberal site has instituted a mass attack on this site!
Ignore all new people unless they send their DD214 to the moderators!
War Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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