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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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 Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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And there's a third possibility. Here are your two:
The 5 items John Kerry admitted to are atrocities and therefore he and everyone who performed any of those specific items are guilty of atrocities, crimes, whatever term.
or
The 5 items are not atrocties then Mr. Kerry is guilty of bearing false witness by claiming they were.
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When Kerry described those five things as atrocities, he believed they were. As he progressed further in time from those events, he concluded that "atrocity" was too harsh a word. And this is, in fact, what happened.
I do believe, however, that those five items make atrocities more likely. |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | Doesn't sound like "everyone" (your quote). So I'll say it again:
Anyway, Kerry didn't accuse "you and everyone you served with of having committed atrocities and war crimes." |
I didn't say just "everyone". I said "everyone I served with." You do understand the different I hope.
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A Grunt
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RVN '65-'66 |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | And there's a third possibility. Here are your two:
The 5 items John Kerry admitted to are atrocities and therefore he and everyone who performed any of those specific items are guilty of atrocities, crimes, whatever term.
or
The 5 items are not atrocties then Mr. Kerry is guilty of bearing false witness by claiming they were.
or
When Kerry described those five things as atrocities, he believed they were. As he progressed further in time from those events, he concluded that "atrocity" was too harsh a word. And this is, in fact, what happened.
I do believe, however, that those five items make atrocities more likely. |
I believe he said something to the effect that "atrocity" was to harsh but the statements were still correct/true or something. As I said "nuanced"
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A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Same thing. I'll say it again (someone has to stop the hyperbole and exaggeration):
"Anyway, Kerry didn't accuse "you and everyone you served with of having committed atrocities and war crimes."
I know it sounds more damaging to Kerry when you abuse the phrase "everyone I served with." That's probably why you say it. In fact, you might even believe it as you ruminate on it and this exaggeration may be one of your big motivators. In fact, if Kerry *had* said that, I'd retract my support for him.
But he didn't.
I've learned that when Kerry opponents say "everyone," they mean it like...
"everyone snorted coke back then"
"everyone was skipping Guard duty"
"everyone checked-off the 'don't send me overseas' box"
"everyone was torturing prisoners over in Iraq"
"everyone has a cell phone" (my daughter's favorite)
"everyone's been saying that all over this board" |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JN173 wrote: | | I believe he said something to the effect that "atrocity" was to harsh but the statements were still correct/true or something. As I said "nuanced" |
Yes, his regret over those words was so deep that he repeated them in the book that was published just this year.
Over which he exercised no editorial control. 
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Same thing. I'll say it again (someone has to stop the hyperbole and exaggeration): |
But apparently it's not going to be you. 
| sparky wrote: |
"Anyway, Kerry didn't accuse "you and everyone you served with of having committed atrocities and war crimes."
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By everyone who served with me I mean everyone in the 2nd Battalion of the 503rd Infantry between May 1965 and April 1966. Everyone there particapted in free fire zones and search and destroy missions.
Yes he did
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A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| JN173 wrote: | By everyone who served with me I mean everyone in the 2nd Battalion of the 503rd Infantry between May 1965 and April 1966. Everyone there particapted in free fire zones and search and destroy missions.
Yes he did |
Maybe you have to have served in the military to understand the depth of betrayal that Kerry dealt his brethren? I dunno, though... most of the "never served" people that I talk to understand it well enough.
I'd have some real doubts about sparky's comprehension level if I didn't know that he's part of an organized attack on the vets, here.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'd have some real doubts about sparky's comprehension level if I didn't know that he's part of an organized attack on the vets, here. |
hehehe, that tinfoil-hat paranoia just won't let you believe the obvious: Today's left and liberals aren't your Dad's liberals. We're pissed and determined to undermine the rightwing smear campaigns that brought this great country Penthouse Paula, Whitewater, Vince Foster, Black orphans, and cocaine smuggling and murder by Clinton. I could go on. 
Ultimately, people like me don't have the bucks that Richard Mellon Scaife has. But we do have energy and a desire to stop this beast in its tracks. Nobody told me to come here. In fact, I heard of this smear site from a conservative on another conference I've been posting in.
I have to say, I'm a bit flattered that you think I'm part of an organized. You should reconsider if the reason you're so frustrated isn't because your opposition is so well organized, but rather because your position sucks. |
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eecee
Ensign
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Quote: | | I'd have some real doubts about sparky's comprehension level if I didn't know that he's part of an organized attack on the vets, here. |
hehehe, that tinfoil-hat paranoia just won't let you believe the obvious: Today's left and liberals aren't your Dad's liberals. We're pissed and determined to undermine the rightwing smear campaigns that brought this great country Penthouse Paula, Whitewater, Vince Foster, Black orphans, and cocaine smuggling and murder by Clinton. I could go on.
Ultimately, people like me don't have the bucks that Richard Mellon Scaife has. But we do have energy and a desire to stop this beast in its tracks. Nobody told me to come here. In fact, I heard of this smear site from a conservative on another conference I've been posting in.
I have to say, I'm a bit flattered that you think I'm part of an organized. You should reconsider if the reason you're so frustrated isn't because your opposition is so well organized, but rather because your position sucks. |
Me too, Sparky. Me too.
(Though I heard about this site from John O'Neill himself, who announced it at his press conference and invited people to check it out.) |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Now I know: the leaders of this site DO think the public are suckers. O'Neill thought people would arrive here and buy the BS being dished out.
You know, this thing about liberals orchestrating some kind of campaign against SBVT (rather than just spontaneously arriving here to counter their crap) smacks of "crying victim." Rather than accept that their smear campaign will be challenged by fair-minded individuals, they end up sound like "we're being unfairly attacked by wave-after-wave of organized Kerry supporters!! That's why we look like such idiots!!" |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Now I know: the leaders of this site DO think the public are suckers. O'Neill thought people would arrive here and buy the BS being dished out. |
Nah... John never thought your situational ethics and perpetual whining would ever be acceptable. So, to that extent, you're right: No one will buy the BS you dish out.
| Quote: |
You know, this thing about liberals orchestrating some kind of campaign against SBVT (rather than just spontaneously arriving here to counter their crap) smacks of "crying victim." Rather than accept that their smear campaign will be challenged by fair-minded individuals, they end up sound like "we're being unfairly attacked by wave-after-wave of organized Kerry supporters!! That's why we look like such idiots!!" |
Hardly. You all look like idiots, because, well, you're idiots.
You people support a self-professed war-criminal. That makes you look like idiots.
You people support the candidate that terrorists around the world would love to have elected. THAT makes you look like idiots.
That you look like idiots requires no particular organization... you do it quite well individually. |
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ROTC DAD
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject: Then why do you support Bush? |
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If, as you say, Kerry is a war-criminal, then why do you support President Bush and his illegal administration. Rumsfeld admits that he is responsible for the torture at Abu Graib, does not find fault with US interrogation methods which led to the abuses, and yet is not held accountable.
Two high-ranking members of the Administration took it upon themselves to release classified information, which is treason, simply to discredit someone, yet the Administration will not aid in the investigation to rid itself of these traitors.
Yet all you see is something which happened over 30 years ago. Why won't you stand up right now and condemn this administration for breaking the rules of the Geneva Convention and for acting in a manner which is detrimental to the security of our nation?
The only answer can be is that you don't care about Kerry's indiscretions other than as fodder for your political attacks. It has nothing to do with whether he is or isn't a war criminal. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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ROTC Dad, I think I'm going to reformulate my approach. I keep writing as though these people actually do consider Kerry a "war criminal."
I need to remember...they know better. They know fully well that Kerry is no war criminal. The more I forget this, the more I'm playing their game. |
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