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Doc Jerry · Commander Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 339

Yeh, the point is this guy has lost every argument he's presented and now can't even present any reasonable counter-arguments. He's left with relying on absurd propaganda that is irrelevant.

DADESID · Seaman Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Posts: 157

>>>Disabled Vietnam veteran Ron Kovic, author of "Born on the Fourth of July," addressed the rally, saying "the same government that paralyzed me and put me in this wheelchair" was killing American and Iraqi boys. <<<

This is the same Ron Kovic, who after a year of killing people in Vietnam from December of 1965 to January of 1967, wrote a letter to the Commandant of the Marine Corps dated May 18, 1967, begging to be ordered back to Vietnam, saying he was "...willing...to give my Marine Corps and my country 100 percent of my abilities and then some. I love my country above all else and am ready now as before to place my life, if need be at the service of my flag."

He knew what war was about... until he got on the receiving end.

Tony · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:04 am Post subject:

ASPB · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:36 am Post subject:

Rings perpectfully true Tony, based upon my time in the Navy.

It would be really helpful if you would do similar analyses of the in-country Fitreps. It's possible we can have them posted "up front" and distributed for publication in the blogsphere.

Tom
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GoophyDog · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:11 am Post subject:

What I find very interesting is that in the 6 to 7 months while the ship was able to be underway, he had not qualified as an OOD. Especially true if he was in charge of the deck gang and probably had some outstanding chiefs to learn from. The ship had just completed yards or dock side maintenance so let's face it, there wasn't that much to do underway and the PAO collateral would be next to nothing.

Shoot, even as a lowly RM1 in a two man shack I snagged that designator; granted it was open ocean steaming on a buoy tender but I darn well did it!

I've known many an ensign/jg that were sunk by just the wording and lack of mention in their FITREPS.

Yep, the last hurrah from the Gridley was a kiss of death and the only thing he could do to rescue his potential career were some "dashing" and "daring" exploits. Failing that, he would have to be the aide of all aides to an area commander to pull his tail out of the bucket. Hmmm, looks like he tried on the first bit and failed on the second. Scarey.
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Tony · Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:20 pm Post subject:

The OOD qual is quite telling. I qualified in about 4 to 5 months in an identical operating environment and received my Surface Warfare Qualification (SWO) before I pinned on my JG bars. For those of us on front line combatants (I was a Division Officer and Department Head on a Cruiser and then a Department Head on a Hydrofoil) this was the expectation. We prided ourselves on being line officers and 'war fighters' and we held ourselves to much higher standards.

Also, due to the size of our ships and manning, there was a great deal of pressure to qualify quickly, since until this first important quailification is acheived, there was no way to really pull one's weight on the watch bill. In some case, not qualifying would mean that a LT who is working on his Tactical Action Officer qual in the Combat Information Center, would be held up in his progress due to the requirement to stand bridge watches for some slacking Ensign who can't make the grade. Any Ensign with half a clue, knew that taking your time with this qual was not a way to win friends and influence people. Still, some ships had COs that were very tough on awarding OOD (U), so the time it took Mr. Kerry could perhaps not be unreasonable.

Tom - I will take a look at the others in more detail when I have a moment. Lots of interesting stuff in all of them when you read between the lines although this particular one has the most information. I actuallly had a fellow JO with a FITREP almost exactly like the one I have reviewed here and he was passed over for LT and forced out of the Navy - quite a dubious accomplishment during the 600 ship Navy days when I served.
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Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

I'm almost positive that I read that Kerry was OOD qual'd, underway and in port.

Did I hallucinate something? I don't think so, but hey, give me enough coffee and anything's possible. Wink

I think it was on one of his Gridley fitreps (thanks for the excellent breakdown of those bullets, by the way - most civilians don't know how "poisonous" some of those seemingly innocuous or even complimentary phrases really are!)

But, it could have been on the Kerry web site.

Haven't been there lately, cause I always feel like I need to take a shower after I read there a while.

Eeeew. Ick.

Wink

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DADESID · Seaman Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Posts: 157

>>>4. The next FITREP on GRIDLEY , for the period from Mar -Jul 68 is the one I find most interesting. At this point, it appears the young Ensign Kerry has either done something really stupid or made someone really mad. In this FITREP he is pretty much blasted by the CO and I would maintain that this one is bad enough, that any aspirations for a Department Head tour and eventual Command would have pretty much ended here, which is very unusual. Most JOs do not get such negative FITREPS early on.<<<Tony

Agree. The 23MAR68-20JUL68 FITREP from USS Gridley is horrible, and should have been a kiss of death for his career.

The COSDIV11 FITREP for the period 14DEC68-26MAR69 is not so hot, either. Parse the words if you like, but you really just have to look at the marks. I recall preparing a FITREP on an officer with marks like these ones.

I got called in and was told, "You're killing this guy, are you sure that's what you want to do?"

Tony · Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:05 am Post subject:

I read in our local paper (the wonderful Florida Times Union with an editorial page that rivals the WSJ for quality) that Kerry's nickname on Gridley was "Beatle" in reference to his long hair and Beatles like hair style. I know ithe boys from Liverpool are pretty tame at least in hindsight, but at the time, I'm not sure that's a nickname I would have wanted aboard ship. Our guy with a similar FITREP to Kerry was nicknamed "Baby Huey" since us other JOs were always taking care of him and trying to keep him out of trouble - this is a guy who got in a fist fight with the CHENG (Chief Engineer) on the quarter deck during a port call...he was an idiot (IMHO)....

At Yale they nicknamed Mr. Kerry John Fitzgerald Kerry due to his Kennedy fixation and the same article mentioned that he told some of his crew in the Navy that he would be the next JFK. I'm sure they were loving that....I can hear the enlisted guys now..."Sir, that's great that you want to be the next JFK...I just want to get the job done and go home to my wife and kids and be myself..."
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