 |
SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
|
 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:03 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Cipher -
Here is the paragraph from page 317:
| Quote: | Kerry and the other wounded men recieved medical attention aboard a Coast Guard cutter, which was the closest ship capable of treating them.
In addition to getting his arm patched up, Kerry, who had suffered a slight concussion, also had the bits of shrapnel and rice extracted from his backside.
Along with a third Purple Heart for the injury to his right arm, Kerry was also awarded a Bronze Star Medal for his bravery in the line of duty that March 13 on the Bay Hap River. He had certainly earned it, as had Larry Thurlow.
Admiral Zumwalt himself signed Kerry's Bronze Star citation.... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
It was four days later on March 17 - St. Paddy's Day
| Quote: | Page 321:
Four days after taking his third hit of shrapnel, the commander (Kerry?)
put in for a transfer out of Vietnam under the instruction that allowed thrice-wounded active-duty personnel to request reassignment - in Kerry's case to "duty as personal aide in Boston, New York, or Washington
D.C." according to the form forwarded on his behalf to the Navy Bureau of Personnel at 7:42 a.m. March 17, 1969. |
Who was the "Commander"? Who submitted this form? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Found the answer to who requested the transfer four days after the
March 13 incident -http://www.powforum.org/kerry.htm
| Quote: | On 13 March 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, slighting wounding Kerry in the right arm. He was awarded his third Purple Heart.
After his third Purple Heart Kerry requested to be sent home. Navy rules, he pointed out, allowed a thrice-wounded soldier to return to the United States immediately.
Commodore Charles F. Horne, an administrative official and commander of the coastal squadron in which Kerry served, filled out a document on March 17, 1969, that said Kerry had "been thrice wounded in action while on duty incountry Vietnam. Reassignment is requested ... as a personal aide in Boston, New York, or Wash., D.C. area.
In April 1969, having engineered an early transfer out of the conflict because of his three minor wounds, John Kerry left his crew behind and returned home to a sweet assignment as an aide to Rear Admiral Walter F. Schlech, Jr. |
The book Tour of Duty does not mention who the commander was nor
what date he was issued the third PH. On Page 318 - Horne recommends
Kerry for the Bronze on March 23, a week after the request for transfer was made....
| Quote: | "Horne recommended him for his Bronze Star on March 23, he pointed out that the twenty-five year-old Lt. (j.g.) had previously earned two
Purple Hearts (on December 2, 1968, and February 20, 1969, and the
Silver Star Medal (on March 6,1969.) |
So no mention of a third PH by Horne on March 23, yet according to the
POW/MIA site it was Horne who put in the thrice wounded request for transfer on March 17. The Thrice Wounded Reassignment form has
this......
FM COM COS RON ONE
Was this Horne? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Bronze Star recommendation which was drafted by LCDR Elliot's (Commander, Coastal Division 11 -- Kerry's boss) Yeoman, states as of 23 March 1969, Kerry was already assigned to COMCOSRON ONE, CDR Horne in a Staff Duty billet. It appears that soon after the 13 Mar incident, Kerry was transferred to Cam Ranh Bay to wait for his orders to the states.
That was pretty fast.
Now, the Naval Support Activity, Saigon typed up Kerry's 3rd Purple Heart certification as of 17 March 1969. Saigon had delegated authority to award Purple Hearts.
What's interesting is that Kerry also requested the thrice wounded assignment on the same day the Purple Heart was certified. He did this through COMCOSRON ONE, CDR Horne at Cam Ranh Bay.
The actual presentation letter was stamped 17 April 1969 by Chief of Staff, NSA Saigon with the reference to CINCPACFLT LTR FFL-1 1650 ser 15/pd-110 of 12 January 1966. This was the thrice wounded and you could request transfer. The presentation letter tells him to request his actual certificate once he was back in the states. But, he was already back in the states by this time -- gotta love the paperwork trails.
- Chief |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm confused - does this mean there were two recommendations put out
about the Bronze - I have only Horne recommending one on March 23 in
Tour of Duty.
You're saying another previous one was put out by Elliot's Yeoman?
Also, the does the Purple Heart Citation on March 17 have a time stamp?
Tour of Duty - Page 321 states the Thrice-Wounded request was sent out
at 7:42 AM, March 17. After that the book is vague about just when Kerry left, no date mentioned when he arrived back in States. Except that Kerry had been gone for two weeks when Droz was killed on April 12.
But check this out from John Kerry's official site - his timeline, he leaves
out mention of recieving the Third Purple Heart - the other two were put in the timeline - not the third - even though he does the 3rd Citation listed,
curious they'd leave the 3 PH out of timeline...
| Quote: | March 13, 1969 For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry’s calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry is authorized to wear the Combat “V”.
March 17, 1969 The policy of Coastal Squadron One, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action in Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy.
Early April, 1969 Kerry departs Vietnam |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RMalloy
PO3
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry screwed up about the John Kerry timeline -
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/military_records.html
Under his service records is the timeline -
| Quote: | | December 2, 1968 Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury. |
| Quote: | | February 20, 1969 Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh. |
Now I could be just nitpicking here -but neither PH 1 or PH 3 are mentioned in the timeline - just that he was injured, yet PH 2 is there,
the only verifiable wound Kerry got. All three PH documents are posted.
Maybe just a Freudian slip by whoever put this timeline together? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't put any stock in the Kerry campaign website. It is full of incorrect facts.
Chain of command and paperwork trail...
Bronze Star was typed up by LCDR Elliott's yeoman - Elliott signs it and forwards to his boss, CDR Horne - Horne signs award and forwards to his boss at NSA Saigon. This is just a word game. Either Kerry forgot what his immediate boss' name was or just ignored him like he did many others.
Kerry's 3rd Purple Heart was certified on the same day he requested transfer out of Vietnam via CDR Horne. Kerry was in Cam Ranh Bay at this time, serving on Staff Duty (17 March 1969).
- Chief |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cipher wrote: | That article IS exactly why there is this "looking for PROOF". That Kerry said he wrote SOME of the reports does NOT mean he admits he wrote THAT report. That Thurlow says Kerry wrote the report does not PROVE that he did.
|
can anyone detect an accent in any of those reports?
any like reports KNOWN to be written by Kerry? Chenoworth or Droz?
can check like wording? phrases?
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
found this post in R & R :
note last paragrah - by poster - also in red
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10842
Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject: Kerry had no intention of fighting
Previously I have posted the following quote: Quote from The Boston Globe, “John F. Kerry – Candidate In The Making, Part 2” By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 6/16/2003
“I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing.”
From the book:
Kerry's contribution is on pages 112 through 117. The full text of the specific quotation is on page 113 and reads as follows:
"The first trip to Vietnam [BC - Westpac deployment on the USS Gridley] did give me a heightened curiosity by virtue of having been so near and having been part of the support operation. But volunteering for the Swift boats had nothing to do with my curiosity about the war. They attracted me because it was the one thing you could do as a junior officer and have your own command. In fact, when I signed up for the Swift boats they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing. Although I wanted to go back and see for myself what was going on, I didn't really want to get involved in the war."
It also seems that Kerry must have failed English 101. His sentence structure and punctuation are atrocious, as shown in the above quote. Do you suppose we could get him convicted for assaulting the English language??
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Here is the paragraph from page 317:
Quote:
Kerry and the other wounded men recieved medical attention aboard a Coast Guard cutter, which was the closest ship capable of treating them.
In addition to getting his arm patched up, Kerry, who had suffered a slight concussion, also had the bits of shrapnel and rice extracted from his backside.
Along with a third Purple Heart for the injury to his right arm, Kerry was also awarded a Bronze Star Medal for his bravery in the line of duty that March 13 on the Bay Hap River. He had certainly earned it, as had Larry Thurlow.
Admiral Zumwalt himself signed Kerry's Bronze Star citation.... |
Here is a copy of the original SPOT report and the CAR. Summary is on page 3, detail on page 8. There is no mention of a concussion (to Kerry) in either. I think ToD is wrong, again. That book is full of errors and is a pretty poor secondary source reference. It seems likely that the word "concussion" was substituted for the word "contusion" because it sounds more impressive than a mere bruise and obscures the fact that the only place Kerry was bleeding from was his butt..
I have NO idea what kind of "patching up" was required for a bruise, but the IMPLICATION is that there was/were holes in it requiring attention.
The actual wording is: LTJG Kerry suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttock and contusions to his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard PCF-94.
The IMPLICATION is that BOTH actions were concurrent, when in fact there was a significant amount of time between the wound and the bruise.
LT Pees had a concussion. It could merely be Kerry stealing valor by claiming someone else's injury. He has a known history of that.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/SpotReports_March1969.pdf
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Now THERE is an argument that Pees could NOT have written the SPOT report that night. PEES had a concussion. The LAST thing you do with an addled brain is write reports. It wouldn't've happened.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reg
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 30
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Beatrice1000 wrote: | | Reg wrote: | | ..has anyone seen a PCF-44 AAR from COSDIV-13 during Dec. 1968? |
I don't see where 13 came in? |
Beatrice1000, Kerry went from COSDIV-14 to 11 to 13 then back to 11. Kerry and PCF-44 were at COSDIV-13 at Cat Lo from Dec. 13 1968 until Jan 5, 1969 when PCF-44 and Kerry went back to COSDIV-11 at An Thoi.
For a nice timeline see antimedia:
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/2004/08/kerrys-vietnam-timeline.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NavyChief wrote: | | ...it appears Kerry was also on the 12 March action and that AAR is almost identical in format and word usage.... |
Too many facts now have me a bit confused. I thought Kerry was NOT on the mission March 12. Did I miss something? Just trying to keep up.
_________________
'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cipher wrote: | | Now THERE is an argument that Pees could NOT have written the SPOT report that night. PEES had a concussion. The LAST thing you do with an addled brain is write reports. It wouldn't've happened. |
Cipher,
Pees was MEDEVAC'd before the report was drafted. That kinda takes him out of the picture completely.
- Chief |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tom Poole wrote: | | NavyChief wrote: | | ...it appears Kerry was also on the 12 March action and that AAR is almost identical in format and word usage.... |
Too many facts now have me a bit confused. I thought Kerry was NOT on the mission March 12. Did I miss something? Just trying to keep up. |
I couldn't be certain that Kerry was on PCF-94 on 12 March action. But now it appears he was. The relieve crew had been banged up pretty bad on 8-9 March. That was Muharsky's crew. They used to take Kerry's boat as a relief crew.
- Chief |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
