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CTW
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 691
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 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: Where do they get the RPG's? |
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Where the hell do they keep getting the RPGs and all those other weapons? Is there no end to them? OR are they going into the stockpile of say WMDs? Nobody ever said WMD was just nukes. How are they being supplied? They found tons and tons or them in schools etc but where now? Please....this is another aspect just bugging me to my wits end. You just never hear any talk on "news" (course that's a ridiculous expectation) about this. I know some bombs can be made pretty easily but still WHERE ARE THE SUPPLY LINES TO THESE MURDERERS? CTW
Never Ever Kerry
Joe Lockhart: SHUT UP!  |
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RogerRabbit
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 748
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Why All Those RPGs? Like irregular armies the world over, Iraqi fighters who attacked American troops loved to use their Russian made RPGs (Rocket Propelled Grenades). The RPG was developed from World War II "bazooka" type weapons and introduced by the Russians in 1961. The current RPG 7 weighs about 17 pounds, with most grenades weighing five pounds each. American tanks and M-2 Bradley infantry vehicle (with additional appliqué armor) are mostly invulnerable to RPG fire. During the Iraq fighting, it was common for most of the armored vehicles in a unit to be hit at least once by an RPG round. The real damage from RPG fire was the fragments from the exploding grenades. Even the anti-tank round (the most common fired by the RPG) would throw out wounding fragments for 10-15 feet. These rarely killed, but troops were often wounded in the arms, legs and face, and often put out of action for a while. But most armies, and irregulars, like the RPG because it is cheap, easy to use and very effective against troops lacking protective vests and helmets. The RPG is also effective against many other armor vehicles. Most RPG anti-tank rounds can penetrate 12-20 inches of ordinary armor. But most modern tanks no longer have ordinary armor, which is why the U.S. M-1 tank and M-2 infantry vehicle can take an RPG hit and keep going. The RPG launcher costs anything from $100-$500 (lotta second hand stuff out there.) The most common RPG ammo is the anti-tank rocket and these go for $50-100 each. This adds up, as you have to fire a dozen or so rounds to develop some accuracy. Unlike the launchers, RPG ammo doesn't get cheap, unless some wealthy nation is flooding an area with it, because the ammo gets used up and the launcher does not. Without much practice, a user can hit a vehicle sized target most of the time at ranges of 50-100 meters. As an operator fires more rounds, he becomes capable of hitting stationary targets at up to 500 meters, and moving targets at 300 meters. It's this last skill that has made the RPG dangerous against helicopters. Irregulars also like using the RPG as a form of artillery. Get a bunch of RPGs firing at the same area say, a kilometer away, and you will do some damage to any people walking around. The rather more rare anti-personnel rockets will spew out fragments up to 30 feet or more.
While Iraqi irregulars were disappointed at the effectiveness of their RPGs against American armored vehicles and troops, the weapon is still very useful against just about every other military force in the world. And many irregulars spend a lot of time making war on civilians, where the RPG is a terrifying weapon. Firing an RPG at the wooden hut that a hostile (to your cause) family lives in, sends a message, even if it doesn't kill anyone in the building. |
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reconflyer
Seaman
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
Location: West Texas USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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The Republican Guard doubtless had thousands if not hundreds of thousands of RPG launchers and rounds. The Saddam Fedayeen probably had caches of RPGs prepositioned and available. There was also widespread looting of military facilities and with the lack of good security RPGs can be smuggled in across the Syrian, Jordanian and Iranian border areas. Also, the relatively small number of fighters are able to move weapons from hotspot to hotspot by truck and van, hiding them like contraband.
I would expect a nearly unlimited supply of RPGs and small arms available for any willing insurgency. I would not expect good logistical support, however, and hence no large scale military operations. What you'll see is what we are getting now: glancing blows, ambushes, hit and runs. If they stop and fight, they die. A classic insurgency. Fortunately, we have tactics, weapons, will and experience to deal with that.
reconflyer
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CTW
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I believe what we were looking for went to those allies of Sadam. They had enough time to move and hide all they had.
So there would be some significant money involved and willing sellers and buyers? I guess identifying and disrupting this trail would be part of the mission? You can't just go in every house & building and search. Informers help. Just like the guy who gave up Sadam after receiving medical care from us. Highlights the importance of our troops winning the hearts and minds as well as using force. What a tough job!! Well needless to say I still am amazed at the abundance of this stuff. Or is it not as wide spread and abundant as it seems? Thanks for the responses. CTW
And Kerry wants to outsource our military command to the ineffective UN? Kerry's stand on that will implode I think. The UN needs serious revamping. CTW
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reconflyer
Seaman
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
Location: West Texas USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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No, it is pretty abundant. Remeber, he had light arms for a few regiments, and that means hundreds of thousands of pieces of hardward.
Marshalling up all the arms is definitely part of the mission there. It just takes a long time. You're right, we can't, for several reasons, search every builiding. Getting information from locals is obviously very helpful. We'll get there.
reconflyer
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azpatriot
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 593
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Other than the AK47 the RPG is probably the most prolific weapon in use by militia types around the world.
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bsjracing
Seaman
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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just keep one out of Kerry's hand's or he'll probably claim a 4th purple heart
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kman
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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They've got some advanced anti-armor RPGs as well. These are the Russian-made ones that can (and did) take out an M1A1. Aviation Week & Space Technology had pictures of the tank some time last year, and it had a pretty good hole going through it.
Kurt |
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