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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:46 pm Post subject: UPDATE: A long look at everything happening then and now |
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The politics that went on behind the scenes of the VVAW are astounding. It is obvious that the motivation for john kerry in the VVAW was political. I am sure there were well meaning mis-guided people who supported or were in the VVAW, but john kerry was there for pure politics, he and others like him, used the Vietnam war, the United States Military, and the people of Vietnam to further their own political agenda. Just like back then, today they are using the war in Iraq to dived this country for their own political gain. Only the roles for john kerry has switched, this time he is the Senator running for President. This time it is not the VVAW, it is organizations like moveon.org. This time is is not john kerry has the spokesman it is michele moore. This time it is not the book the New Soldier but the move Fahrenheit 9/11.
Back then, the politics of john kerry and others like him got men and women killed, not just a few but thousands. In 1968 the North Vietnamese made a last desperate push against the U.S. they threw everything they had at us, and they were defeated. John kerry and others used this politically to show that it was useless to try and fight, saying look here at what just happened we can never win.
History has shown that major pushes like this are likely in a war when one side is about to lose, they will throw everything they have in a last ditch effort to try and turn the war. Look at WWII and Hitler, Germany was losing and the U.S. and allies where advancing. So Hitler pulled troops out of Russia, and not just any troops, some of his best, and sent them to try and stop the allied advance. Thus resulting in the Battle of the Bulge. Now if the allies had followed john kerrys plan well….. I don’t think he would be able to speak French but would be speaking German.
Just like in those two wars, in Iraq our enemies, over the last month have started throwing everything they have at us. They know they are about to be defeated and they will do anything they can to stop the up coming elections in Iraq. And just like before john kerry is using this for his own political gain, and just like before john kerry, if we let him will get thousands killed.
From FBI doc. At wintersoldier.com
Section 02 January / April 1971 pg. 200
Dated April 13 1971
| Quote: | Page Two
A second confidential source who had furnished reliable information in the past, learned on [ ] seventy-one that [ ] a VVAW leader, indicated he would contact [ ] (phonetic) I[ ] regarding the possibility of [ ] to Washington, DC, for the VVAW demonstrat[ion] [ ] stated money was no object.
The second source reported that [ ] VVAW regional coordinator, contacted the VVAW chapter at [ ] [ ] and indicated that all necessary money had been obtained from New York and advised the [ ] chapter to ask New York for any needed funds.
The source reported that [ ] had contacted [ ] (phonetic) in [ ] in order to stimulate interest at [ ] on April Twelve, Seventy-One, the second source advised that [ ] and [ ] [ ] a VVAW member, acknowledged that Senators Mc Govern and Hatfield had arranged Fifty Thousand dollars to support
End page two |
Let’s take a look at senators Mc Govern and Hatfield
First Mc Govern
In 1972, Senator McGovern was selected as the Democratic Party nominee for President
Let’s look at what Senator McGovern had to say back than
http://www.4president.org/brochures/mcgovern72.pdf
| Quote: | ………But as President he (Nixon) has dragged the war on for four painful years. Around 20,000 more Americans have died -- one third of our total Vietnam combat deaths. Millions more civilians in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos have been killed, maimed, and made homeless, the majority by American bombing. An estimated 10% to 15% of our Vietnam G.I.’s become addicted to heroin while serving there……………….
It is still costing us at least $7 billion a year. And our P.O.W’s in North Vietnam prisons are doomed to stay there until we agree to total withdrawal.
Senator McGovern has opposed our military intervention in Vietnam since 1963. He has pledged he will withdraw all our military forces and aid and bring home all our P.O.W.’s in his first 90 days as President………………………
Despite Nixon’s widely advertised troop withdrawals in Vietnam…………………..he has still asked Congress for the largest defense budget since WWII. |
Sound familiar??
ACCEPTANCE SPEECH OF SENATOR GEORGE MCGOVERN
Democratic National Convention
Miami Beach, Florida
July 14, 1972
http://www.4president.org/speeches/mcgovern1972acceptance.htm
| Quote: | Wilson believed, and I believe, that the destiny of America is always safer in the hands of the people then in the conference rooms of any elite.
So let us give our – let us give your country the chance to elect a Government that will seek and speak the truth, for this is the time for the truth in the life of this country.
And this is also a time, not for death, but for life. In 1968 many Americans thought they were voting to bring our sons home from Vietnam in peace, and since then 20,000 of our sons have come home in coffins.
I have no secret plan for peace. I have a public plan. And as one whose heart has ached for the past ten years over the agony of Vietnam, I will halt a senseless bombing of Indochina on Inaugural Day.
There will be no more Asian children running ablaze from bombed-out schools. There will be no more talk of bombing the dikes or the cities of the North.
And within 90 days of my inauguration, every American soldier and every American prisoner will be out of the jungle and out of their cells and then home in America where they belong.
And then let us resolve that never again will we send the precious young blood of this country to die trying to prop up a corrupt military dictatorship abroad.
This is also the time to turn away from excessive preoccupation overseas to the rebuilding of our own nation. America must be restored to a proper role in the world. But we can do that only through the recovery of confidence in ourselves. |
Sound familiar??
From uncommon knowledge
Filmed 05-24-03
http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/800/807.html
| Quote: | David Kennedy: Senator McGovern has something to say about that.
George McGovern: The biggest part of the federal government, which is the military part...
Peter Robinson: Now.
George McGovern: And I think it's important for the American people to know that it's not the food stamp program. It's not school lunches. Some of these politicians that attack liberalism leave the impression that these comparatively small, modest programs are bankrupting the country. It's actually the military has always taken the biggest single slice...
Peter Robinson: Biggest single but it's well under half the federal budget.
George McGovern: But not much under half of the controllable items.
Peter Robinson: You're setting the entitlements aside?
George McGovern: Well, Social Security pays for itself. It's a self-financing system.
Peter Robinson: If it works right.
George McGovern: Well, that's the way it's worked for 50 years.
Peter Robinson: So during the Cold War, Republican Presidents, Democratic Presidents alike, so I'm including Lyndon Johnson in this and Jimmy Carter too, the defense budget consumes about 6%-8% of GDP. Now even after Bush's recent, quite dramatic increase in the budget, it's still under four percent. Do you mean to propose as a serious, practical politician that liberals can recapture the Democratic Party and indeed the country in a time of war and quite understandable national jitters about terrorism by running against what is by recent historical standards, already a modest defense budget?
George McGovern: That's one of the things I tried to do in '72 is to develop a case that we could cut probably 10% or more from the Pentagon budget without jeopardizing this country in any way. As a matter of fact, I think the military under the current President is taking such a big percentage of the federal budget that it's weakening the country by depriving us of funds we need for education, for healthcare, for the environment. You know the defense of a great country doesn't depend on the military arsenals alone. Those may be important but they're not the only thing and as President Eisenhower said if the military takes too much, it weakens the country. |
Sound familiar??
Now let’s look at Mr. Hatfield
Statement By Senator Mark O. Hatfield
Vol. 135 WASHINGTON, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 2, 1989 No. 107
Congressional Record
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/eteconomicpers/hatfield.htm
"Peace through strength is a fallacy..."
Senator Mark O. Hafield (Republican-Oregon)
| Quote: | Mr. President, 23 years have passed since I first arrived in the Senate, a former Governor who came to Washington determined to extricate American boys from the chaos and confusion into which this country- wrongly in my view- had sent them in Southeast Asia. Those were difficult times for the Nation- and difficult times for me personally.
In the early years, I found myself in a very small minority. We would give our speeches and cast our votes-and every day, more young people were coming home in body bags and wheel chairs.
In 1970-before some of the interns now working in my office were even born- I rose on this floor to question this peace dividend idea, to express my doubts about this notion that we would one day begin to rechannel our resources-not away from a strong national defense, but toward a more comprehensive, more human, definition of it.
And as we entered this decade, the clarion call went out: despite one of the largest and best trained militaries in the world, despite a nuclear arsenal of unprecedented destructive power, we were- somehow- vulnerable. A spending gap is what they called it- and so we began a massive buildup; billions and billions of dollars to catch up. Never mind that this spending gap was as phony as the bomber gap of the 1950s and the missile gap of the 1960s- Democrats and Republicans alike dutifully lined up and marched to the drummer of higher military spending.
We have played on the margins so long, Mr. President, that I am afraid we do not even know what the real issues are anymore. We seem to have lost sight of the fact that many of the programs we have authorized- and are authorizing again here today- are intended for one purpose only; mass destruction.
We seem to have lost sight of the fact that every dollar we spend on bombs and bullets means that we are underfunding programs to meet the Nation's desperate human needs: health care, education, our war on drugs, low income housing, prison construction, AIDS research- all of these things are part of our national defense.
Could somebody tell me if there is some secret strategy- some finite figure that we will one day reach and then suddenly be secure? Will we ever have enough?
Can we really believe that the decisions we have made- and are making- do not have a direct relationship to the violence which plagues our Nation?
To those who may suggest that I am naive, I respond: I have been there. As a young naval officer, I walked through the rubble of Hiroshima- a month after the bomb was dropped. I saw the death- the slow, agonizing pain- and the charred bodies. As we stand here playing on the margins, Mr. President, as we stand here voting 98 to 1 for the development of more lethal weapons, the stench of death haunts me still. |
Sound familiar??
UPDATE:
A further look at John Kerry and the VVAW and politics
In a look back on history you can clearly see the attitude of Senator J.W. Fulbright, but also looking back you can see that many people would have you believe the John Kerry was a young man full of great ideas for mankind, came to Washington to save the U.S. from it’s own evil.
After looking into the mind of Senator Fulbright, I have to ask myself, how much if any of the ideas of John Kerry were his own, and how much was Kerry coached before his speech at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on April 22, 1971, headed by Senator Fulbright.
We know from the FBI file that Senators Mc Govern and Hatfield had arranged Fifty Thousand dollars to support Kerry. But we have to look at something else in this also. The New York Times May 3, 1970 had reported Senators Hatfield and McGovern wanted to cut off funds for continued military activities in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia unless there was a declaration of war by Congress. This same idea was given by Kerry in his April 22, 1971 speech at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing. This same speech has been reported as being written by Bobby Kennedy speechwriter Adam Walinsky.
In the following text you will see quotes from Senator Fulbright and news articles mixed in with quotes from John Kerry. This is to show just how much John Kerry’s speech and words at the time followed very close to what was coming Senator Fulbright at the time.
Why is all this important? It is to show that John Kerry was not the great idealist just trying to save young men from dieing in Vietnam, but in fact used the Vietnam war in a very well laid plan for his and others political careers. It is also to show that John Kerry is using this same well made plan today with the war in Iraq.
Follow the words of McGovern, Hatfield, Fulbright, and Kerry read their speeches from the Vietnam era, see how it was all played out back than to turn this country against the Vietnam war. Than compare with what is happening today with the war in Iraq. Listen to Kerry’s speeches today, compare those words with his words from the 70’s you will not find much difference.
What started Kerry on his path to the VVAW
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml
| Quote: | A leader in the New York protest, Adam Walinsky, a former speechwriter for Robert F. Kennedy, said he needed a pilot and plane to take him around the state on Oct. 15. Did anyone know a pilot?
Peggy Kerry said she would provide such a volunteer: her brother.
John Kerry flew Walinsky around New York to deliver speeches against the war. Kerry did not wear his uniform and did not speak at the events, but the experience helped convince him that he wanted to become a public leader of the antiwar movement. |
Also let’s look at what some where saying about John Kerry in the VVAW
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml
| Quote: | | Some members of the antiwar group viewed Kerry as an opportunist. He hadn't testified during the Winter Soldier hearings, hadn't organized the group, yet now he was seeking to become the coordinator and spokesman. |
From the New York Times May 3, 1970
http://www.vialarp.org/tinsoldiers/0503701.htm
| Quote: | WASHINGTON, May 2 – Two Democratic leaders in the Senate today the newly announced bombing of North Vietnam was a step that could prolong the war and compromise plans for a withdrawal of American troops.
“It is a difficult situation to resign one’s mind to,” Senator Mansfield observed. “because the outlook seems to be getting grimmer by the day.” A similar reaction came from Senator J. W. Fulbright the Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. “Good God!” he exclaimed when told of the raids. |
April 22, 1971 United States Senate, Committee on Foreign Relations
| Quote: | | Mr. Kerry: Well, Senator, frankly it does not appeal to me if American men have to continue to die when they don't have to, particularly when it seems the Government of this country is more concerned with the legality of where men sleep than it is with the legality of where they drop bombs…………… |
New York Times
| Quote: | | …………This was the upshot of a proposal earlier today by four Senators, two Republicans and two Democrats, to cut of funds for continued military activities in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia unless there was a declaration of war by Congress. |
| Quote: | | The Senators – Mark O. Hatfield, Republican of Oregon; George S. McGovern, Democrat of South Dakota; Harold E. Hughes, Democrat of Iowa, and Charles E. Goodell, Republican of New York – announced at a news conference that they would offer such an amendment to the pending military procurement authorization bill. |
April 22, 1971 United States Senate, Committee on Foreign Relations
| Quote: | | Mr. Kerry: If this body could perhaps call for a referendum in the country or if we could perhaps move now for a vote in 3 weeks, I think the people of this country would rise up and back that. I am not saying a vote nationwide. I am talking about a vote here in Congress to cut off the funds, and a vote to perhaps pass a resolution calling on the Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of the war and to do the things that uphold those things which we pretend to be. That is what we are asking. I don't think we can turn our back on that any longer, Senator. |
Let’s look at Senator Fulbright a little closer.
FOR COEXISTENCE WITH THE SOVIET UNION
Senator J. W. Fulbright (D. AR ), address to the U.S. Senate, June 29, 1961
http://billingswest.billings.k12.mt.us/murphys/ColdWarform.htm
| Quote: | | Some may object that, as a practical matter, the fire spread by communism can be fought effectively only with fire. I disagree....... The United States can become a pivotal force in enabling well intentioned governments of independent countries to bring about the economic and social reforms that their societies are understandably enough insisting upon............... Our duty is to show that between communism and the flickering old order, the United States recognizes a third choice permissive societies whose central purpose is to embody the people's will and the people's needs. |
April 22, 1971 United States Senate, Committee on Foreign Relations
| Quote: | | Mr. Kerry: It is my opinion that the United States is still reacting in very much the 1945 mood and postwar cold-war period when we reacted to the forces which were at work in World War II and came out of it with this paranoia about the Russians and how the world was going to be divided up between the super powers, and the foreign policy of John Foster Dulles which was responsible for the creation of the SEATO treaty, which was, in fact, a direct reaction to this so-called Communist monolith. |
| Quote: | | Mr. Kerry: I will say this. I think that politically, historically, the one thing that people try to do, that society is structured on as a whole, is an attempt to satisfy their felt needs, and you can satisfy those needs with almost any kind of political structure, giving it one name or the other. In this name it is democratic; in other it is communism; in others it is benevolent dictatorship. As long as those needs are satisfied, that structure will exist. |
United States Senator J. William Fulbright of Arkansas supported the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which allowed President Lyndon Johnson to expand U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam War (1959-1975). But Fulbright had begun to question the U.S. role in the war by 1966 when he testified at Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings on U.S. policy toward China and Vietnam.
J. William Fulbright Testifies on China and Vietnam 1966
http://www.vietnamwar.net/Fulbright-1.htm
| Quote: | China has experienced very little except humiliation and defeat in its relations with the West, including Russia and, to some degree, America. One of our leading Chinese scholars, Prof. John K. Fairbank, who is the director of the East Asian Research Center of Harvard University, believes that the rapacious behavior of Europeans in China in past centuries has a great deal to do with the irrationality and hostile behavior of China's current leaders.
Words like "extraterritoriality" and "unequal treaties" are far too antiseptic, too bland, to describe China's humiliation by Western imperialism. In human terms, the coming of Western civilization to China in the nineteenth century meant the plundering of China's wealth by foreigners and the reduction of most of the Chinese to an inferior status within their own country. Missionaries were immune from Chinese law and treated the Chinese as heathen, except, of course, for the converts who also claimed immunity from Chinese law and used the power conferred by their foreign association to intimidate their fellow citizens. Foreign goods were exempted by treaty from internal toll taxes imposed by the Manchu Dynasty to pay for the Taiping rebellion of the mid-19th century, with the result that Western companies destroyed their Chinese competitors in the sale of such products as timber, oil, tobacco and, of course, opium. Each of China’s disastrous nineteenth century wars with the West was followed by the levy of a huge indemnity or some further incursion on the economic life of the country.
It is of great importance that we try to learn something more about the strange and fascinating Chinese nation, about its past and its present, about the aims of its leaders and the aspirations of its people. Before we can make wise political -- and perhaps military -- decisions pertaining to China, there are many questions to be asked and, hopefully, answered:…………………..
………The Chinese today, like Americans a hundred years ago, are in an agitated and abnormal state of mind. It is not only within our means but, as a great and mature Nation, it is our responsibility, as [United Nations Secretary General] U That so wisely pointed out, to try to understand the causes of China's agitation and to try to find some remedy. |
McCarthy hearings 1953-54 Volume 5
In 1954, Fulbright was the only Senator to vote against funding Senator Joseph McCarthy's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/06amay20030700/www.gpo.gov/congress/senate/mccarthy/83873.html
When Democrats returned to the subcommittee they selected as their counsel a former subcommittee staff member, Robert F. Kennedy, the younger brother of Massachusetts Senator John F. Kennedy. The full committee then voted unanimously to approve the subcommittee's appropriation. In the Senate chamber, Senator J. William Fulbright of Arkansas cast the sole vote against the appropriation.
ALOR - OnTarget Vol. 3 No. 4
http://www.alor.org/Volume3/Vol3No4.htm
"The Vietnam war was as unpopular among the U.S. allies as it was in the communist world, Senator J .W. Fulbright, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said yesterday. 'The U.S. is condemned for the war all over the world', he said in a lecture at Colombia, Missouri. "Not a single one of our European allies has been willing to send even a token force to Vietnam as a symbolic gesture of support………..
…………….."The Swedish Government has even prohibited the sale of armaments to the U .S. - an action which tells us something about the moral standing of America in a neutral and hitherto friendly country", said Mr. Fulbright". - The Australian. February 8.
Books associated with Fulbright
Old Myths And New Realities - Fulbright, Senator J. W. 1964
The Pentagon Propaganda Machine - Fulbright, Senator J. W. 1970
THE TRUTH ABOUT VIETNAM: REPORT ON THE U.S. SENATE HEARINGS:
Robinson, Frank M. And Kemp, Earl: (Editors) Analysis By U. S. Senator Wayne Morse. Foreword By U.S. Senator J. W. Fulbright: 1966
Senator Fulbright, in his foreword states that the hearings present different aspects of the Vietnam situation -- the hearings are not slanted either in support of American policies in Vietnam, or against those policies. Both points of view were presented and subjected to critical evaluations. Senator Morse in his analysis, vehemently opposes the conflict The editors point out that the hearings were among the most important a Senate committee has ever held -- acrimonious, incisive and of sharp significance to every American.
The Arrogance of Power - Fulbright, Senator J.W. 19??
_________________
Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country
Last edited by BC on Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:12 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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BC...
I appreciate your putting this together and would like to use it to stimulate discussion in the Wintersoldier Forum where I will place this topic.
Thanks  |
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neverforget
Vice Admiral
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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The left is bankrupt of new ideas and incapable of leading our country. We need to get them out of our schools and local governments where they get away with propagating their totalitarian methods.
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US Army Security Agency
1965-1971 |
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JROTC
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 83
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your efforts BC on this well researched piece. I believe that the simularities between then and now are very scary for our brave men and women overseas today protecting our freedoms here.
The American public needs this information. They have to realize that we did NOT lose one major military conflict in Vietnam - the war was lost here in the United States. We cannot let this happen again!
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"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it" - General Douglas MacArthur |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Who's gonna be our Sen. Joe McCarthy this time. We need one in the worst way.
Dusty |
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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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bump for the update. 
_________________
Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country |
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BC
PO3
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dusty wrote: | Who's gonna be our Sen. Joe McCarthy this time. We need one in the worst way.
Dusty |
maybe Zell Miller?
_________________
Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country |
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