SwiftVets.com

[Poposwife_Retiredarmywife]

Before I post this correspondence....

Mr. J Peder Zane is a very polite and well thought out individual. He took the time to find me information that I could post here.

He was not defaming any single book in his review, but all of the ones that have come out in this election and during other elections.

The link in the last letter I have received from him (I just sent the response posted this morning) is
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

I've looked over their other articles from their home page and they seem to be an up front site.

Now, when we see these claims we know where they came from...and what was said. To me this is a very important step to discussion. This also allows the Swift Boat Veterans the ability to address the claims in that particular fact check.

Please, do not send email attacking this mans stance. He is one of the few that actually took the time not only to respond, but in a polite manner with the information I requested.

Lorelei



This is the correspondence:



From: Lorelei
To: pzane@newsobserver.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: Clarification please from a NC voter.....


This is in reference to your review


Published: Sep 26, 2004
Modified: Sep 26, 2004 3:10 AM
We know it, but we can't prove it

By J. PEDER ZANE, Staff Writer

I appreciate the fact that you didn't simply target the Swift Boat Veterans, and instead were commenting on ALL of the books published as "non-fiction". However I do have some trouble with a passage, and would like some clarification.

Specifically:

"In August the mainstream media debunked most of the charges leveled by the Swift Boats Veterans for Truth against John Kerry's service in Vietnam. The group raised some legitimate questions, especially about Kerry's first Purple Heart and his alleged trip to Cambodia. But now it is clear that the Swifties smeared the candidate far more than it shed light on his military record."


Where, exactly, can I find the information that shows these facts to be false please. I have done many searches, only to find that more of the charges have been proven than I had thought before, up to the fact that his military service is now under scrutiny by the Navy. I like to be an educated voter, however...each and every link I have tried has simply shown that he has admitted to many of the accusations.

It's a very nerve wracking time, this election year is explosive...and I for one wouldn't want to be caught unable to back up my claims if asked. I would want to be able to point to something and say "THIS is where I found it....and see? It doesn't just say they've been proven false....it shows how."

So again...after numerous searches through multiple news and information sites...I have yet to find a single page that shows where, and how these claims were proven false.

If you would send me the information, I would be glad to review it and perhaps post it.

Thank you for your time.
LW

From: J. Peder Zane
Date: 09/26/04 20:28:34
To: Lorelei
Subject: Re: Clarification please from a NC voter.....

Hi,

My guess is that if you have done an extensive search on this issue, you have seen the sources I base my conclusions on: articles in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune and Dallas Morning News, to name a few. My guess then is that you were not persuaded by these pieces, which persuaded me.

If you haven't seen these articles, you can find them online (though you may have to pay for some at this point).

- peder zane


From: Lorelei
To: pzane@newsobserver.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Clarification please from a NC voter.....


Thank you for responding,

Actually, what I was looking for wasn't more news articles, rather the sources that independently investigated the claims proving them false. I did read the New York Times and Boston Globe, however the articles I've seen simply repeat what the rest of the media has been saying. I would like to perhaps see some sort of layout, with the documents that show these to be false.

Paying to view the articles doesn't bother me. <smiles>

Do you have any links to an independent board? Perhaps a law college that looked it over, or a JAG officer? Someone familiar with military records, and habits?

I appreciate your time on this, with things today you truly can't be too careful when making a choice like this. I will check the Chicago Tribune, and the Dallas Morning News to see if they cite any sources that aren't with either "camp" of political followers.

Sincerely,
LW

From: J. Peder Zane
Date: 09/26/04 22:20:05
To: Lorelei
Subject: Re: Clarification please from a NC voter.....

Hi,

You might want to check out this website:

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

I appreciate your frustration. Because video cameras were not whirring when these events took place, it is impossible to produce ironclad evidence one way or the other. What you have to go with is the preponderance of the evidence - eyewitness accounts, official navy records, etc. In most cases they support Kerry (as I mentioned in my article, his first Purple Heart and trip to Camodia seem suspect).

The independent investigations you see were performed by the news organizations I mentioned. You can accept them or not.

- peder zane

That dear sir, is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for your time. I've read the article over and am posting it.

To give you some background, my husband is a retiree of 22 years with the Army and a civilian police officer. Myself, I am an EMT-B and we both pride ourselves on being educated when we speak of things. This allows us to be able to discuss with knowledge. To be honest, the medal issue with Mr. Kerry isn't very important to us. My husband joined the Army in 1976...in the years following the aftermath of Kerry's actions in 1971. Fortunately my husband was too young at the time men were sent over to fight, unfortunately though he did see much of the angst that these speeches caused.

My personal concern with Kerry is the fact that he committed treason (in the technical sense of the word) but was never taken to task for it. The fact that appalls me the most is that he continued to associate actively with a group who voted on whether to assassinate some of our leaders for months after it took place. Documentation supports these facts. Also, Mr. Kerry himself now (from what I've been able to find) admitted to being there when this took place, though he voted against it.

These actions, may be discounted in many ways....however in a presidential candidate they raise serious concerns.

These issues are garnered from research on the web and through newsgroups. Some independent, some democratic and some republican.

You were right about my frustration, as many times one newspaper simply parrots another. Again, this allows us to discuss with knowledge when the issue comes up, instead of only being able to say "This newspaper said it was so". With the advent of the issues of CBS, we as voters can no longer take their word for it when they report something. To me, that is very sad.

One last comment on your article, it isn't often that you find these days someone who looks equally at all sides in an issue. You didn't target one book, but all books. You didn't dumb down your article, and set your views out in a clear way. I may not agree with some of your stances, but it was refreshing to see you didn't lean one way or the other. Granted, your article reviews books...but especially in todays election I know that particular article has been seen by people all over the United States through linking to it.

Be well, and thank you again.
Sincerely,
LW

[Wynne]

http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10847

You wrote a much kinder letter to Peder Zane than I did, LW. I used to work for The N&O (I was one of very few -- perhaps the only -- Republican on the staff; certainly, the most vocal). I edited the People's Forum and did occasional book reviews. I have had previous contact with Mr. Zane in which he was not as accommodating as his correspondence with you indicates. I'm afraid my low expectations toward the Democratic bias of that newspaper showed up in my letter to him. I'm glad he is hearing from people re: his perception of the SBVT.
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TRUTH IS ALWAYS THE VICTOR

[m_drummond]

I've gone to FactCheck many times and has always come away with the impression that they're biased. Maybe not as obvious as NYT, but biased none the less. How could any objective person rely solely on the known biased publications cited (Surprised that DMN is biased? Don't be, it's my local rag).
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[Wynne]

I know for a fact the Raleigh N&O is biased toward the Democratic party. It was founded by a Democratic stalwart, Josephus Daniels, owned and published by the Daniels family until it was sold a few years ago to McClatchey News. When I worked there I used to watch the Executive Editor (my direct boss) tell people off in person and on the phone who disagreed with the Dem Party line. He would reject their views out of hand. He would call them names behind their back, thought they were all nuts. However,to be fair, he said if somebody could come up with direct evidence contrary to his beliefs and put it in front of him, he would look at it. But how rare is that? I never saw it happen.

As Peder Zane says, The N&O takes whatever it reads in The NYT, Boston Globe, Washington Post and Dallas Morning News as its 'authority' -- take it or leave it.

LW did a great job of 'educating' Peder Zane. I hope he reads that letter and doesn't just put it in the recycling file.
_________________
TRUTH IS ALWAYS THE VICTOR

[GT]

Unfortunately, I found out that you cannot rely on FactCheck to tell the truth either. In their Aug. 6th article "Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record" FactCheck states "In an Aug 10 opinion piece in the conservative Wall Street Journal, Rassmann (a Republican himself) ..." Now this article was written in August and Rassmann had switched to the Democrat party last January or November. In the Wash DC newspaper, The Hill, is a July 26 article entitled "Convention News" and it states "In fact, he switched his registration to Democrat so he could vote for Kerry..." So The Hill knew, I knew, but FactCheck didn't?

[Me#1You#10]

Here's about the best indictment of "Factcheck's" credibility as I've yet to see...and from one of our forum members, Billman.

[Poposwife_Retiredarmywife]

When I said up front...I didn't neccesarily mean there was no Bias.

Just that it wasn't hidden or shady as other Democratic leaning sites/papers.

The sad thing is, that you will ALWAYS have bias so long as the news is reported by people. Because we as humans have opinions and it is exceedingly difficult to look at anything with a totally jaundiced eye.

I wanted to post this, because this way (for people who are just now coming to these forums) we will know just "where" these claims are coming from.

This gives us something to point to and say "See, here...and here. These are patently false and here is why." To me that is very important to be able to open discussion, especially with someone who is a diehard and firmly believes the MSM.

To me, there is entirely too much focus on the medals issue. Not nearly enough on the fact that this man voted on an assasination plot to kill leaders of our people.

Not nearly enough focus on the fact that he stood by while others descrated our flag.

That in any other time, his actions would have been seen as an "Unforgivable sin". Our forefathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew.

[Stevie]

[Poposwife_Retiredarmywife]

I'm one of the very few I know that kept my children home until Kindergarten. I felt no need for them to start pre-school at 3 years old when their personality is just in the middle of developing.

I wanted to be the one they could turn to for advice, not a school teacher that will be in their lives for less than a year. The one they can talk to, and come to if they are in trouble.

Let me tell you....

I got never ending suggestions from people telling me "Oh, well if you can't AFFORD it....put them in head start. It will give you a break"

It had nothing to do with money, I couldn't AFFORD to risk my children being raised by other people.

It galls me to no end, now people are sending their children to "school" as young as one year old, full time day care at 6 weeks.

Funny thing is, my children do better at adjusting to new things...respect...understanding...compassion then most of the children that went to before/after school programs or started these so called services at a very young age.

During this election I thank goodness I did it that way, we sat down at dinner not too long ago and my oldest son (turning 14 in the second week of October) asked me "Mama...why do you not like Sen. Kerry? He just wants to make things better for us, we're middle class!"

I told him that the reason I didn't like Sen. Kerry is because there are certain things in life we all must hold valuable. That one of those very important things is respect for our country. Where we live, what it provides and how fortunate we are to be here.

That we live in a country that values our freedom to such an extent that even though things hurt us to see and hear....our men fight and die every day to provide that freedom. That even now our men are fighting overseas to give that freedom to another people, and are proud to be there. That Mr. John Kerry spit on the freedom, and now wants to be president.

My son sat and thought for a few minutes and then said "Freedom is what all our beliefs are based on mama. Our freedom of religion, freedom of speech, free to be who and what we are without fear. Dad stood up for that freedom for a long time didn't he?"

I told him yes.

He then told me "I wish I could vote, I'd make sure he never spits on that freedom again."

I almost cried when he said that, I was so proud. He wasn't listening to hate speech, or lies. He was defending our freedom in the only way he knew how, as a 14 year old child.

Our freedom is threatened by the likes of Mr. John Kerry, in subtle and horrible ways. Already fear of terrorist acts is cutting into vacations, family time...its talk at the dinner table. On the television, radio.

When you are bound by fear, its stronger than iron bars or shackles on your feet. Its stronger than drugs, alchohol, any form of addiction. It's inside your heart and mind where the largest part of you lives.

We have to stand up and fight for our children, so they will not now...or ever, have to grow up with fear.

[JROTC]

Ms. Poposwife_Retiredarmywife:

Please consider forwarding your last post to Mr. Zane!

It was / is moving - God Bless!
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"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it" - General Douglas MacArthur