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danbear

Kerry claimed during tonight's first debate that he knew how the President feels regarding the American KIA's in Iraq because he(Kerry) lost men under his command in Vietnam.

Were there any KIA's on the Whaler or either of the PCF boats during Kerry's four month tour?

Any help welcomed. THX
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment.'' Nikola Tesla

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

I know he lost one friend, but I think he was assigned to the Gridley at the time. I think he lost two more friends after he returned to the States.
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Tacan70UDN · PO2 Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 392

The key is, how many surviving family members did Kerry talk to and visit with, or even write that dreaded letter to them? I know the President has met with many family members, as well as visiting with wounded troops. When did John Kerry, in the last two years, ever visit with wounded troops. (Maybe once at Walter Reed??) This is another case of gratuitous lying.

danbear · Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:43 am Post subject: Thx Navy

Kerry implied he knew first hand what it is like to have men die under (and because of) his command.

A lot of us lost friends, some of us lost family. My first cousin, Sammy Lee Dellos, was KIA in '66 on point with a platoon in the Big Red One.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment.'' Nikola Tesla

Warthog

From my reading of "Unfit for Command" and Brinkley's puff piece, I can't recall any U.S. personnel who were KIA at the time they were under Kerry's command. I don't have either book at hand at the moment, but I believe one or two of the guys who had been under his command were KIA after he left. His friend from Yale, Dick Pershing, was KIA just before the end of Kerry's tour aboard the USS Gridley. Reading "Tour of Duty", one could conclude that Pershing's death was a substantial factor in turning him against the war. In my opinion, that conclusion would be dead wrong. He was opposed to the war before he joined the Navy, and remained opposed to it during and after his time in the Navy.

His Yale Class Oration in 1966 advanced exactly the same assessment of what the "right" course would have been for the U.S. in Vietnam as his present assessment regarding Iraq - to act under the auspices of UN sponsership as part of a broad coalition with our allies.

I find it hard to give credence to his claim that he knows how the President feels about the loss of men under his command when he did everything he could after his return from Vietnam to marginalize, vilify and demonize Vietnam Vets.

If this sorry POS is elected President who will look out for the interests of America?

Warthog
HM/2, USN
K&L 3/5, 1st Mardiv, 1969

danbear · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:30 am Post subject: Gut feeling

I have been looking hard for any reference to a Kerry command KIA. As near as I can tell from my copy of Unfit For Command there is no mention from Mr. Oneil on this point.

My gut check makes me think that PCF 94 under Kerry was a "cut and run at the sound of guns" boat. The Bronze Star incident where PCF 3 was blown out of the water and Kerry's 94 boat runs down river and the late beaching of 94 in the Silver Star incident make me think that there was a deal on 94 between Kerry and some crew to avoid combat.

Seems to me that a deal to help punch Kerry's ticket in return for keeping butts out of fire might explain some of Del Sandusky's and others support for Kerry.

I am amazed that we have to deal with this BS but we all owe it to the guys whose names are on the wall.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment.'' Nikola Tesla

arkadyfolkner · PO3 Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 271

shouldnt the after action reports state whether any casualties were taken under his command?

if he didn't lose anyone then he just shot himself in the foot again with that statement

ASPB · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:01 pm Post subject:

These were all casualties during Kerry's abreviated tour.

Steven Ralph Luke BM2 Provo, UT PCF 36 December 6, 1968
John Raymond Hartkemeyer EN2 Hamilton, OH PCF 51 December 17, 1968
Gerald Robert Horrell BM3 North Hollywood, CA January 5, 1969
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danbear · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: Amazing ASPB

Great job. Thank you. Thank you very much. Just one more thing.....

What boat was Gerald Robert Horrell on? PCF___?

Thanks ASPB.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment.'' Nikola Tesla

mtboone · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: USA kia under Kerry

Only one Swifty died during Kerry's time in An Thoi and that was EN2 Gerald Horrell who was killed on 1/5/69 who was on the 71 boat and with jfk being an Officer, I doubt they spent any time together.
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Terry Boone PCF 90
Qui Nhon 68-69

danbear · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:41 pm Post subject: Hyperlink

I thank you Mr. Boone.

Where would a reporter needing to cite an official reference locate this info.....by hyperlink?
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment.'' Nikola Tesla

mtboone · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hyperlink

Where would a reporter needing to cite an official reference locate this info.....by hyperlink?[/quote]

That I do not know. A Fran Stevens sent me the History Of CosDiv 11 History for 1969, Fran was wounded on the same boat with Horrell and he also sent a document refering to Horrell and two other WIAs being on the 71 boat.
_________________
Terry Boone PCF 90
Qui Nhon 68-69

ASPB · Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: USA kia under Kerry

Cap' DOC · Seaman Recruit Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 21

Kerry can imply all he wants. I would like to see a quote of exactly what he did say during the debate about the matter of this thread.

danbear · Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:08 am Post subject: The quote in question

LEHRER: New question, Mr. President. Two minutes.

Has the war in Iraq been worth the cost of American lives, ten thousand fifty uh 1,052 as of today?

BUSH: You know, every life is precious. Every life matters. You know, my hardest -- the hardest part of the job is to know that I committed the troops in harm's way and then do the best I can to provide comfort for the loved ones who lost a son or a daughter or a husband or wife.

You know, I think about Missy Johnson. She's a fantastic lady I met in Charlotte, North Carolina. She and her son Brian, they came to see me. Her husband, P.J., got killed. He'd been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way.

I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husband's sacrifice was noble and worthy. Because I understand the stakes of this war on terror. I understand that we must find al Qaeda wherever they hide.

We must deal with threats before they fully materialize. And Saddam Hussein was a threat, and that we must spread liberty because in the long run, the way to defeat hatred and tyranny and oppression is to spread freedom.

Missy understood that. That's what she told me her husband understood. So you say, "Was it worth it?" Every life is precious. That's what distinguishes us from the enemy. Everybody matters. But I think it's worth it, Jim.

I think it's worth it, because I think -- I know in the long term a free Iraq, a free Afghanistan, will set such a powerful in a part of the world that's desperate for freedom. It will help change the world; that we can look back and say we did our duty.

LEHRER: Senator, 90 seconds.

KERRY: I understand what the president is talking about, because I know what it means to lose people in combat. And the question, is it worth the cost, reminds me of my own thinking when I came back from fighting in that war.

KERRY: And it reminds me that it is vital for us not to confuse the war, ever, with the warriors. That happened before.

And that's one of the reasons why I believe I can get this job done, because I am determined for those soldiers and for those families, for those kids who put their lives on the line.

That is noble. That's the most noble thing that anybody can do. And I want to make sure the outcome honors that nobility.

Now, we have a choice here. I've laid out a plan by which I think we can be successful in Iraq: with a summit, by doing better training, faster, by cutting -- by doing what we need to do with respect to the U.N. and the elections.

There's only 25 percent of the people in there. They can't have an election right now.

The president's not getting the job done.

So the choice for America is, you can have a plan that I've laid out in four points, each of which I can tell you more about or you can go to johnkerry.com and see more of it. Or you have the president's plan, which is four words: More of the same.

I think my plan is better. And my plan has a better chance of standing up and fighting for those troops.

I will never let those troops down, and will hunt and kill the terrorists wherever they are. [/b]
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment.'' Nikola Tesla