SwiftVets.com Forum Index SwiftVets.com
Service to Country
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Maybe this is how Kerry got his Medals!!

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Resources & Research
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:53 am    Post subject: Maybe this is how Kerry got his Medals!! Reply with quote

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal year 1996


SEC. 522. AUTHORITY TO AWARD DECORATIONS RECOGNIZING ACTS OF VALOR PERFORMED IN COMBAT DURING THE VIETNAM CONFLICT.

(a) FINDINGS- Congress makes the following findings:

(1) The Ia Drang Valley (Pleiku) campaign, carried out by the Armed Forces in the Ia Drang Valley of Vietnam from October 23, 1965, to November 26, 1965, is illustrative of the many battles during the Vietnam conflict which pitted forces of the United States against North Vietnamese Army regulars and Viet Cong in vicious fighting.

(2) Accounts of those battles that have been published since the end of that conflict authoritatively document numerous and repeated acts of extraordinary heroism, sacrifice, and bravery on the part of members of the Armed Forces, many of which have never been officially recognized.

(3) In some of those battles, United States military units suffered substantial losses, with some units sustaining casualties in excess of 50 percent.

(4) The incidence of heavy casualties throughout the Vietnam conflict inhibited the timely collection of comprehensive and detailed information to support recommendations for awards recognizing acts of heroism, sacrifice, and bravery.

(5) Subsequent requests to the Secretaries of the military departments for review of award recommendations for such acts have been denied because of restrictions in law and regulations that require timely filing of such recommendations and documented justification.

(6) Acts of heroism, sacrifice, and bravery performed in combat by members of the Armed Forces deserve appropriate and timely recognition by the people of the United States.

(7) It is appropriate to recognize acts of heroism, sacrifice, or bravery that are belatedly, but properly, documented by persons who witnessed those acts.

(b) WAIVER OF TIME LIMITATIONS FOR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AWARDS - (1) Any decoration covered by paragraph (2) may be awarded, without regard to any time limit imposed by law or regulation for a recommendation for such award to any person for actions by that person in the Southeast Asia theater of operations while serving on active duty during the Vietnam era. The waiver of time limitations under this paragraph applies only in the case of awards for acts of valor for which a request for consideration is submitted under subsection (c).

(2) Paragraph (1) applies to any decoration (including any device in lieu of a decoration) that, during or after the Vietnam era and before the date of the enactment of this Act, was authorized by law or under regulations of the Department of Defense or the military department concerned to be awarded to members of the Armed Forces for acts of valor.

(c) REVIEW OF REQUESTS FOR CONSIDERATION OF AWARDS - (1) The Secretary of each military department shall review each request for consideration of award of a decoration described in subsection (b) that are received by the Secretary during the one-year period beginning on the date of enactment of this Act.

(2) The Secretaries shall begin the review within 30 days after the date of the enactment of this Act and shall complete the review of each request for consideration not later than one year after the date on which the request is received.

(3) The Secretary may use the same process for carrying out the review as the Secretary uses for reviewing other recommendations for award of decorations to members of the Armed Forces under the Secretary's jurisdiction for valorous acts.

(d) REPORT- (1) Upon completing the review of each such request under subsection (c), the Secretary shall submit a report on the review to the Committee on Armed Services of the Senate and the Committee on National Security of the House of Representatives.

(2) The report shall include, with respect to each request for consideration received, the following information:

(A) A summary of the request for consideration.

(B) The findings resulting from the review.

(C) The final action taken on the request for consideration.

(e) DEFINITION- For purposes of this section:

(1) The term `Vietnam era' has the meaning given that term in section 101 of title 38, United States Code.

(2) The term `active duty' has the meaning given that term in section 101 of title 10, United States Code.

SEC. 526. PROCEDURE FOR CONSIDERATION OF MILITARY DECORATIONS NOT PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED IN TIMELY FASHION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 57 of title 10, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:
`Sec. 1130. Consideration of proposals for decorations not previously submitted in timely fashion: procedures for review and recommendation

`(a) Upon request of a Member of Congress, the Secretary concerned shall review a proposal for the award or presentation of a decoration (or the upgrading of a decoration), either for an individual or a unit, that is not otherwise authorized to be presented or awarded due to limitations established by law or policy for timely submission of a recommendation for such award or presentation. Based upon such review, the Secretary shall make a determination as to the merits of approving the award or presentation of the decoration and the other determinations necessary to comply with subsection (b).

`(b) Upon making a determination under subsection (a) as to the merits of approving the award or presentation of the decoration, the Secretary concerned shall submit to the Committee on Armed Services of the Senate and the Committee on National Security of the House of Representatives and to the requesting member of Congress notice in writing of one of the following:

`(1) The award or presentation of the decoration does not warrant approval on the merits.

`(2) The award or presentation of the decoration warrants approval and a waiver by law of time restrictions prescribed by law is recommended.

`(3) The award or presentation of the decoration warrants approval on the merits and has been approved as an exception to policy.

`(4) The award or presentation of the decoration warrants approval on the merits, but a waiver of the time restrictions prescribed by law or policy is not recommended.

A notice under paragraph (1) or (4) shall be accompanied by a statement of the reasons for the decision of the Secretary.

`(c) Determinations under this section regarding the award or presentation of a decoration shall be made in accordance with the same procedures that apply to the approval or disapproval of the award or presentation of a decoration when a recommendation for such award or presentation is submitted in a timely manner as prescribed by law or regulation.

`(d) In this section:

`(1) The term `Member of Congress' means--

`(A) a Senator; or

`(B) a Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, Congress.

`(2) The term `decoration' means any decoration or award that may be presented or awarded to a member or unit of the armed forces.'.

(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

`1130. Consideration of proposals for decorations not previously submitted in timely fashion: procedures for review and recommendation



SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know.... but under 7b, there is a waiver.... that's probably it!

I think Kerry put in for his medals in advance ....
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hondo
LCDR


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the paperwork for all his medals was approved back in 1969, I kinda doubt the Defense Autorization Act of 1996 had much to do with it . . . .
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hondo wrote:
Since the paperwork for all his medals was approved back in 1969, I kinda doubt the Defense Autorization Act of 1996 had much to do with it . . . .


How do you know his paperwork was approved in 1969?


Isn't it possible that the paperwork that had 1969 date was submitted for approval using above Act. According to the Act, all he needed was a witness to back up the story.

SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BC
PO3


Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
Hondo wrote:
Since the paperwork for all his medals was approved back in 1969, I kinda doubt the Defense Autorization Act of 1996 had much to do with it . . . .


How do you know his paperwork was approved in 1969?


Isn't it possible that the paperwork that had 1969 date was submitted for approval using above Act. According to the Act, all he needed was a witness to back up the story.

SBD


He clearly had his medals back in the 70’s
_________________
Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He also had someone else's Medals to throw away, supposedly instead of his own.

SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hondo
LCDR


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SBT:

Yeah, I'm rather sure the paperwork for Kerry's awards was approved in 1969. His awards were listed on the DD214 releasing him from active duty on 3 January 1970.

The DD214 releasing him from active duty shows the Silver Star (with "V", but that's likely a clerical error - it appears immediately below the Bronze Star line, and it's been my experience clerks sometimes will go into "drone mode" while typing and repeat information unnecessarily); the Bronze Star w/V, three Purple Hearts, the Vietnam Service Medal, the Combat Action Ribbon, and the National Defense Service Medal. It also lists "Vietnam Campaign"; I think this referrs to the RVN Campaign Medal.

Kerry's DD214 releases him from active duty on 3 January 1970; other documents show approval for his departure on 2 January 1970 whith 1 day travel authorized for return to his HOR. This means all the info on the DD214 was likely as of the end of December 1969, and probably earlier (due to the holidays). My experience is that DD214s are prepared during final outprocessing. Since Kerry signed his DD214 before departing, the absolute latest date the info could be "as of" is 2 January 1970.

Last time I checked, Kerry's DD214 was available on his web site - if you could hold your nose (or your breath) long enough to find it. If interested, poke around under "about John Kerry" until you find "official Navy records". I think it's under "service to country", or something similar. I working from memory and could be wrong; I don't visit that site unless I HAVE to. I don't like holding my nose to avoid losing my lunch.

If Kerry's DD214 has been removed from his site, PM me. I downloaded a copy and will post it here if there is demand.

The only possibility I can see that you might be correct would be if the continuation sheet for his DD214 (which is NOT posted on his site) has a statement that his awards are "based on officer's affidavit and subject to verification from official records" and that Kerry was stupid enough to try to pull a fast one. My last DD214 has a similar statement, since the place I last left active duty didn't have access to all of my official records.

This last possibility seems doubtful. IMO Kerry is unprincipled and opportunistic, but he's not stupid. That would be too easy to discover later.

Since Kerry's third PH got him out of Vietnam, I think the paperwork for his PHs is not an issue. (Whether they're all based on legit combat wounds is a different matter; two of them may well not be.) Since another Swiftie (Thurlow, I think?) got a Bronze Star for the same incidient Kerry got his - and it was forwarded to him in early 1970 after he had left active duty, if I recall - the paperwork for Kerry's Bronze Star likely was processed in 1969 as well. Since there are citations with Zumwalt's signature from 1968 or 1969 for Kerry's SS, that one was likely "paper complete" in 1969 also.

My guess is that the continuation sheet listed foreign or unit decorations to which Kerry was entitled that wouldn't fit on the appropriate block of the DD214, listed campaign participation information, listed information on which ships/units he served on/with in the Vietnam theater, or referenced his early departure from Vietnam being due to his 3 PHs.

Sure would like to see that DD214 continuation sheet, though.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SBD
Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 1022

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question on the DD214.

Why is there only one award on the first page and what does 13b mean that "No Discharge Certificate Issued at Time of Seperation".
How do we know he went to work for the Admiral? The only proof that we have about this time frame is The Crimpson that talks about a Caucus that Kerry was running in for Congress. That article was not on the Crimson website until March 4, 2004 per the web.archive.org yet the rest of the archives from 1970 seem to have been there the whole time.

Why does he ask for the Seperation Date to be corrected to 03-01-70 on the DD215 if the DD214 already says that date on it. What DD214 is he correcting in 2001 and what DD214 does he present to begin with?
Also, can you break doen his time served section listed on the bottom right?


Thanks,


SBD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hondo
LCDR


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SBD:

I believe the phrase "No Discharge Certificate Issued at Time of Separation" refers to the fact that Kerry was not issued a DD256 when he left active duty in 1970. The DD256 is an "Honorable Discharge Certificate" and is a separate and distinct document from a DD214.

If current Army regs are any guide - and I'm pretty sure this is consistent across services and hasn't changed since the DD256 was instituted in 1950 - a DD256 is not issued until expiration of all obligated service. Since Kerry had a reserve obligation when he left active duty, he was technically transitioning to the USNR. He thus would not have gotten a DD256 at that time. What he would get on leaving active duty was a DD214.

Kerry would most likely have received his DD256 in 1978 when (per the letter from the USNR Personnel Center in New Orleans posted on his website) he either resigned or was discharged from the USNR. I say "most likely" as I am not certain that DD256s are automatically issued for reservists on discharge; you may have to request the actual DD256. I know of at least one similar situation. In the Army Reserve, soldiers being promoted are not automatically issued a promotion certificate; the soldier must request one.

As I've discussed elsewhere, my guess is that Kerry was either 2x nonselect for promotion to LCDR in 1978 (he was not participating in the USNR) or resigned his USNR commission at that time. I'd personally bet on the former; the timing is about right.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't appear that Kerry ever requested modification to the separation date on his DD214. The line "SEPARATION DATE ON DD214 BEING CORRECTED:", followed by a blank for a date, is a standard part of any DD215. This line is there to allow unambiguous identification of the DD214 being modified or corrected (since persons with multiple periods of active duty or certain changes in status may have multiple DD214s.) The date of the DD214 being modified is placed in the blank. The information being changed is listed, by item number from the original DD214, after this identification line.

The date in Block 5 of Kerry's DD215 matches the date on his second DD214. In both cases, the date is 3 January 1970. (The date format on DD214s at the time Kerry left active duty was DAY-MONTH-YEAR.)
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Resources & Research All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group