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The Debate Topic - COMMENTS HERE ONLY Please
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Tom Poole
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: The Debate Topic - COMMENTS HERE ONLY Please Reply with quote

Andrew Herrmann wrote:
...One of the current President Bush's challenges, and it's a problem for many incumbents, is that "once you're in office, you're used to people being nice to you,'' said Martin. "Then, there you are in the debate and that person isn't there to be nice.''...
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-debate30.html

Hopefully, the OIM (Old Irrelevant Media, pka MSM) will have some knockout questions for Kerry too, e.g., "Why have you refused to sign a Form 180?"

Admin note:

To the forum:


Needless to say, this is a "hot" topic and will be for several days. In order not to overwhelm our main forum with related posts, we would appreciate very much all forum members restricting their "debate" observations/comments to a single topic...and THIS is the one.

Thanks in advance for everyone's cooperation and our apologies to Tom for stealing his space. Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: this could help kerry?????????? Reply with quote

If he pays attention to himself tonite it may help him in his debate with

himself.
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Tom Poole
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhiteSands wrote:
...The rules for the three presidential debates were negotiated between representatives of Sen. John F. Kerry (news, bio, voting record) and President Bush (news - web sites) in a 32-page memorandum of understanding, and they leave little room for spontaneity....
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=68460

The very brilliant Mr. Baker negotiated for these rules precisely because he, like most of us, knows the OIM (Old Irrelevant Media, pka MSM) will stack the question deck. He no doubt knows they'll do everything short of leaking the questions (and I'm not sure of that) to ensure that Kerry already is prepared and Bush is not. Ill be watching for this kind of media bias.
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Tom Poole
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the LA Times take on the debates. It reveals one way the OIM (Old Irrelevant Media, pka MSM) would stack the question deck. Lehrer might deflect attention from Kerry's record, which as we know is a zero. In turn questions might be focused on the "iffy" parts of the Bush record, such as the stepped up violence by insurgents as free elections in Iraq grow near. We should watch closely for this bias which is sure to be there.
Maria L. La Ganga and Mark Z. Barabak wrote:
..."The debates are the best opportunity for Kerry to change the dynamics, which have not worked for him in the last six to eight weeks," said Paul Maslin, a Democratic strategist who worked for former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean in the Democratic primaries. "If he can make this election about Bush, Bush in all likelihood will lose. If this election is about Kerry, then we've got a rougher row to hoe."...
LA Times

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GiveMeFreedom
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Poole wrote:
We should watch closely for this bias which is sure to be there.
Maria L. La Ganga and Mark Z. Barabak wrote:
..."The debates are the best opportunity for Kerry to change the dynamics, which have not worked for him in the last six to eight weeks," said Paul Maslin, a Democratic strategist who worked for former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean in the Democratic primaries. "If he can make this election about Bush, Bush in all likelihood will lose. If this election is about Kerry, then we've got a rougher row to hoe."...
LA Times


First, I think (and this is just *MY* humble opinion) that any bias shown to any candidate by the moderator will work against both him(the moderator) and the candidate he is favoring. Human nature will cause people to start rooting for the "underdog" in those cases, and with the current CBS flap, I would hope that the moderator is going to be well aware of his bias.

Second, since when did the "LA Times" become part of the Kerry campaign?? Notice the "WE" in the sentence "we've got a rougher row to hoe"?? Evil or Very Mad God help us, what bias is revealed when pen goes to paper. Rolling Eyes
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Tom Poole
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Admin, no apology necessary. I believe tonight's debate, along with the next two, is an important milestone to the Swiftee goal. All of us need to be alert to one of our common complaints: media bias. Sometimes it's subtle and here's an example of what to watch for.
Media Lies wrote:
If you want to understand the pernicious nature of biased (or "shaded") news reporting, this op-ed in the NY Times provides an excellent example....
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/

Then the op-ed piece slants the "news" to benefit the left.
Daniel W. Drezner wrote:
John Kerry is making the outsourcing of jobs by American companies a centerpiece of his campaign, telling audiences that "because of George Bush's wrong choices, this country is continuing to ship good jobs overseas."...
NY Times

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Steve Z
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:28 pm    Post subject: Debate strategy Reply with quote

Sometimes, the debates allow each candidate to ask the other candidate a question. If he gets the chance, President Bush should ask Senator Kerry the following question:

"If you were elected, would your exit strategy from Iraq be different from the strategy you used from Vietnam in 1971?"

If Kerry says yes, he loses the Deaniac vote (to Nader or abstention). If Kerry says no, he loses the patriotic Democrats to Bush, and either way he loses the election.

It remains to be seen whether the President will have the opportunity and the guts to ask Kerry this question.
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kmudd
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry campaingn is now complaining about the debate timing lights. Even though they agree to them before.

Last edited by kmudd on Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry Kampf taking their cues from the endless negotiations that preceded the Paris Peace Talks? Wink

Sorry, Traitor John - the talks start tonight.

On time.
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kimberly
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmudd wrote:
Kerry campaingn is now complaining about the debate timing lights. Even though they agree to them before.


Fox news reported that the Bush camp did not show up for the 'emergency' meeting held this morning in this regard. Said Kerry already agreed. Kerry's campaign has said they, during the one hour pre-tour of the site, rip the timing lights out!

According to Fox news.

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kmudd
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimberly wrote:
kmudd wrote:
Kerry campaingn is now complaining about the debate timing lights. Even though they agree to them before.


Fox news reported that the Bush camp did not show up for the 'emergency' meeting held this morning in this regard. Said Kerry already agreed. Kerry's campaign has said they, during the one hour pre-tour of the site, rip the timing lights out!

According to Fox news.

Kimberly


Once again Kerry has proven you can't trust him to keep an agreement.Even on a minor thing such as this he wants to back out on what he agreed too.
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jack white
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lights flap shows exactly how low Kerry will go and why we can never take anything for granted, whatever the polls show. Let's turn up the pressure even more, because if Kerry doesn't rebound after tonight the Democrats will turn away from him towards the congressional races. But this still shows the depths the Kerry SOBs will plumb, as anyone who dealt with Kerry in 1971 or 1986 or any time before, in between, or since knows.
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gia_lin_fo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimberly wrote:
kmudd wrote:
Kerry campaingn is now complaining about the debate timing lights. Even though they agree to them before.


Fox news reported that the Bush camp did not show up for the 'emergency' meeting held this morning in this regard. Said Kerry already agreed. Kerry's campaign has said they, during the one hour pre-tour of the site, rip the timing lights out!

According to Fox news.

Kimberly


Is there enough time before the debate to put them back?

I would like to see Bush just leave. Would they hold a debate if the only one there was Kerry? Kerry needs this more than Bush. I think enough could be made of Kerry not wanting to follow the "rule of law" than would be lost in the attack that Bush was afraid to debate Kerry. Kerry probably heard Weld last night say that with enough time to dig himself out of the holes he dug he won the debate in 96. With 90 seconds he can't begin to dig out.
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GiveMeFreedom
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full story:

Bizarre Pre-debate story - ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!

BIZARRE PRE-DEBATE STORY - GRIPING OVER THE LIGHTS? [09/30 02:00 PM]
From AP:

CORAL GABLES, Fla. - Sen. John Kerry to debate organizers: Let's go light on the lights.
Advisers for the Democratic presidential candidate demanded Thursday that the lights signaling when a speaker's time has expired during debates with President Bush (news - web sites) be removed from the lecterns because they are distracting. The commission hosting the debates refused.

Bush's campaign accused Kerry, known for favoring long sentences and statements, of trying to violate debate rules against windy answers.

An angry exchange between representatives of the Kerry campaign and the Commission on Presidential Debates took place just hours before the candidates were to meet at the University of Miami for the first of three debates, according to several officials familiar with the meeting. Kerry's team threatened to remove the lights when they visit the debate site with the candidate later in the day.

"We'll do what we have to," Kerry strategist Tad Devine said after his meeting with the commission. But he also suggested the dispute will pass once Kerry's team makes its point. "We'll beat them over the head a little bit, then we'll see what happens."

The commission's executive director, Janet Brown, did not return a call from the AP seeking comment.

It's not unusual for the campaigns to haggle over the smallest debate details, but not so close to the event.

The commission placed the lights on the lecterns in clear view of the television audience and those in the auditorium.

An agreement between the Kerry and Bush campaigns required camera-mounted timing lights for each candidate "positioned in his line of sight." It also specified that timing lights "shall be placed such that they are visible to the debate audiences and television viewers."

Mark Wallace, deputy campaign manager for Bush, said Democrats sought the change "because they don't want the American people to know that Sen. Kerry can't follow the rules."

Kerry's team contended that the agreement doesn't specifically say where the lights should be placed, and it said putting them on the lecterns creates a distraction. Devine said the agreement includes a picture of the lectern that doesn't include the lights.

The Bush team pushed for the lights in negotiations with Kerry advisers. "The Bush teams wants to debate about things like this to distract from the real issues," Devine said.


Search the Kerry team for screwdrivers!

What the heck is this about? I guess the fear is that Kerry will speak... a bit longer than he needs to, and that viewers could see the time-expired light and would be turned off by Kerry's speaking longer than he's supposed to.

Still, very, very odd to have this fight this close to the actual debate.

UPDATE: Kerry Spot reader Steve takes the first shot: "If Kerry can't handle a few little light bulbs in his face when he answers questions how does he expect to sell the world on his ability to stand tall in the face of the bright lights that will shine on him in the world stage?"

UPDATE, AGAIN: Many, many Kerry Spot readers are asking whether the fear in the Kerry camp is that the lights might make their candidate look... orange. (giggle, snicker) Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

great website by the way: http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerryspot.asp
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gia_lin_fo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GiveMeFreedom wrote:
CORAL GABLES, Fla. - Sen. John Kerry to debate organizers: Let's go light on the lights.
Advisers for the Democratic presidential candidate demanded Thursday that the lights signaling when a speaker's time has expired during debates with President Bush (news - web sites) be removed from the lecterns because they are distracting. The commission hosting the debates refused.


How about light goes on mic goes off.
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