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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:19 am Post subject: "GI Special" harmful to our troops (VVAW-AI) |
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*** Regarding the website: “GI Special - Occupation News Bulletin”: ***
In my research, I happened upon the link to “Not In Our Name (“NION”)--GI Special” given below. This contains propaganda sent to our troops for the purpose of turning them against their commanders & against our country’s mission in this war on terrorists. Some time ago, in looking around that website, I ended up on a linked doc. that discussed the issue of them having to be careful because it was against the law to mess with active duty troops... I didn’t save that info or the link to it & I can’t recall where it was, because I was on a scouting mission & just looking around .. so much to wade thru. (Perhaps someone with legal expertise can sink their teeth into this... I have no idea where the line is drawn between “free speech” and “working for the enemy” and “endangering one’s country”...) The website contains a “Pledge of Resistence.”....
I’m posting this particular website, even tho I did cover this issue in the “pass the torch” thread, because it’s a good example of what many, many left groups are up to these days... Specifically, I hope some of you will look at this and maybe find a way to stop and/or counter this “anti-war” (other agenda of their own) group’s message that can only demoralize our soldiers, cause them to second-guess their beliefs, & hurt our country in this war.
"NION"-- know them. (If you want to march in a “peace march,” & see their signs there-- please know what these people are doing before you decide to march with them. Also, any big planned events that look like “peace marches,” go to the VVAW website, International A.N.S.W.E.R., & others listed here, & see if they are the organizers. You may be being used by the far-radical left for some unknown agenda of their own & not even know it.)
ABOUT NION (“Not In Our Name”): (excerpt from below article):
| Quote: | “...NION believes, as do the other anti-war groups, that Republicans are more of a threat than Al-Qaeda or the Baathists. Whether they are just inveterate haters of Republicans or they are treasonous is uncertain. What is certain is that peace is not even a tertiary consideration for them - destabilizing the United States is. NION, & the other “peace” groups are linked to communist, Islamist, & anti-capitalist groups. However, the ultimate irony of this plan was that it was designed, in part, by a former Vietnam Veteran Against the War (VVAW) colleague of JOHN KERRY. JOE URGO – now a member of the Revolutionary Communist Party – was one of John Kerry’s VVAW executive members. It has been alleged that Kerry was part of the committee that authorized Urgo’s trip to North Vietnam,* “to produce propaganda audio tapes to be broadcast over Radio Hanoi for the purpose of attempting to convince American troops to desert their duty and units in South Vietnam. ” NION is linked to the RCP, which is an affiliate of the Revolutionary International. Other members of the Revolutionary International, are the murderous, Shining Path, narco-terrorists of Peru, and the equally murderous, narco-terrorist, Communist Party of Nepal.”...
SEE: “A Peace Group’s War Plans”: some info in NION to get you started. ARTICLE
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*My Note: In the FBI files, there is a note that Urgo was “an employee” of the VVAW at the national office. Kerry was on the Exec. Committee of the national office (NY).... Urgo reported on his trip to the Exec Committee, including Kerry, at the Kansas City Meeting in 11/71.......
See some brief info. on URGO at Part 2 of my thread: Kerry Camp 2004 < know the players
(and also read some FBI reports in the parts on Kerry at that thread around 11/71 which involve Urgo...)
| Quote: | | “GI-Special...” is LINKED at Urgo’s website with this note: “The GI Special includes letters from troops, articles off the newswire & a variety of other publications. Here you can find a cohesive, concise collection of reports from Iraq about the ongoing resistance - the resistance of the Iraqis towards their occupiers AND of the occupying GIs towards the military brass who put them in Iraq. The GI Special cannot be found anywhere else on the web! It is a valuable resource for activists looking to better understand the situation in Iraq & learn about the resistance on all sides.” |
I checked the following four organizations regarding this link:
--NOT linked at “Veterans For Peace” (VFP)*
--NOT linked at “Vietnam Veterans Against the War" (VVAW)
--NOT linked at “Veterans Against the Iraq War" (VAIW)
--IS LINKED at "Iraq Veterans Against the War" (IVAW)
*Not linked at VFP, VVAW & VAIW: HOWEVER, note at the IVAW website where it IS LINKED that donations to IVAW are to be payable to "Veterans For Peace" which is David Cline, who is also associated with VVAW and VAIW. So, there is support for this site with these other organizations, but they have specifically linked it at IVAW.
Here’s the news going out to our soldiers (note the title: OCCUPATION):
** "GI Special" Occupation News Bulletin **
---Some other leads if you are interested in researching this issue further can be found at LINKS at Urgo’s website (prepare yourself before going in...it is all very overwhelming): VVAW-AI
Last edited by Beatrice1000 on Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:31 am; edited 4 times in total |
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msindependent
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you so much for posting this. I made a copy of this in case they close the site. I think we all need to keep an eye on these people and protect our troops from them the best we can. |
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dusty
Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1264
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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We need to let the 'Powers that be' know that we are not going to put up with this sort of seditious behavior again. Once for Vietnam was enough for any country.
We should have picthed a fit back then but as I watched it occur, it just sorta snuck up on everybody. Seems like there were just a few whispers at first, then a flood.
We cannot let it get passed the whisper stage this time.
Thanks so much for your excellent research work Beatrice1000.
This much work won't go unrewarded I don't imagine.
Dusty |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Speak of the devil...
Seems to me that organizations like ProtestWarrior.com are the initial answer to counter these demonstrations. Media must be given an alternative to focus on as well. We can't yield the streets to them as was done in the 60's. Looks like it's time for me to find a local chapter.
| Quote: | Hundreds March In Anti-Bush And Anti-War Protest
November 6, 2004
By KOMO Staff & News Services
SEATTLE - About 500 protesters marched through downtown Seattle Saturday, venting their frustration over President Bush's re-election and calling for United States troops to be pulled out of Iraq.
Protesters, organized by the anti-war group Not in Our Name, said they felt compelled to air their beliefs about Iraq and the leadership of a president they feel does not represent their interests.
"What do we want? No War!" they chanted as they marched through the streets.
Some people said they came out of frustration.
"I am very anti-Bush, I am against his policies,"one man who goes by the name Ozzy told us. "The war is wrong, and his gay policy is wrong."
Others said they joined the march because they truly believe in what they are protesting and they want to feel they can somehow make a difference.
"If you want to make something change you have to be part of it," explained Annie Schill, 17.
The protest last several hours and made its way through several parts of the city.
Kellen Williams doesn't agree with anything the protesters were saying, but seeing them out there is what makes America great.
"I think that people take for granted the fundamental right we have as Americans to express our opinion," Williams said. "That's the great thing about America."
Others watching from the sidelines told demonstrators they should quit complaining and accept the will of the voters.
Police on bicycles escorted demonstrators from Westlake Center to the Federal Building and back.
There were no reports of any arrests.
Another protest was planned for Jan. 20, the first day of the president's second term.
KOMO-TV |
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msindependent
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Some time ago, in looking around that website, I ended up on a linked doc. that discussed the issue of them having to be careful because it was against the law to mess with active duty troops... |
I waded through their links today and never came up with this particular page. It's an enormous amount of information to go through and I will keep looking. I may have to put a barf bag by the computer.
Last edited by msindependent on Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:53 am Post subject: TRAVELING SOLDIER.. (ref. in GI Special) |
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Here's a related item I forgot to include. Saw it referenced in a June GI Special as: “Get Some Truth - Check out Traveling Soldier"
At the Traveling Soldier website, here's the "ABOUT US" data:
| Quote: | Telling the truth - about the occupation, the cuts to veterans benefits, or the dangers of depleted uranium - is the first reason Traveling Soldier is necessary. But we want to do more than tell the truth; we want to report on the resistance to those on top - whether it’s in the streets of Baghdad, New York, or inside the armed forces.
For this, we might be criticized for not being “objective” or “balanced”. We aren’t. We proudly take the side of our class - working people and the oppressed the world over - against those who use their wealth and power to make our lives hell. But producing this newsletter for people in the armed forces is about more than telling the truth. Our goal is for Traveling Soldier to become the thread that ties working-class people inside the armed services together. We want this newsletter to be a weapon to help you organize resistance within the armed forces - and that can’t happen without you. TRAVELING SOLDIER |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| msindependent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some time ago, in looking around that website, I ended up on a linked doc. that discussed the issue of them having to be careful because it was against the law to mess with active duty troops... |
I waded through their links today and never came up with this particular page. It's an enormous amount of information to go through and I will keep looking. I may have to put a barf bag by the computer. |
Sorry - I so wish I had copied it - but was looking for something else at the time. It must have been in one of the newsletters - they have articles mixed in with chatter and propaganda and letters; it's an odd mixture of info. The one link I kept a copy of was dated 6-11-04 that had an Urgo article in it. Actually, I can't even swear that what I saw was at that site, as I was clicking off their links and following threads all over... y'know how it goes. But I specifically recall a rather glib comment about watching the line and staying within the law with regards to dealing with active duty troops and/or ways they could avoid problems in that area. Oh well, what you can see is bad enough... Thank you for checking it out -- it is a nasty task.
Last edited by Beatrice1000 on Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Me#1You#10 wrote: | | ... Seems to me that organizations like ProtestWarrior.com are the initial answer to counter these demonstrations.... We can't yield the streets to them as was done in the 60's. |
Yes - counter-demonstrations are a key, I think. Especially if great numbers could be mustered. Looks like they are planning a nice big event for Jan. 20th..  (along with 30 other like-minded orgs, I suppose, in cities all over the country -- they are getting predictable -- wherever the media goes, so go they...). Thanks for the article. |
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msindependent
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Just a little update: The only thing close (and it wasn't really) was the Mar 12, 2004 newsletter Iraq and Vietnam. That was the newsletter where VVAW and VFP when over to Iraq and Bob Woodruff of ABC showed Solar where his son died. Billy Kelly mentioned "When I had the opportunity to chat with our soldiers (rarely) ....." (note: Kelly posted his Vietnam and N.J. address.)
The newsletters so far don't seem to make any bones about trying to attract active duty soldiers. I wonder if people know the Army Times is corrupt too.
You probably already saw the Jul 7, 2004 newsletter Resistance. It sited supposed Navy problems (some racial) and sited the 1975 book Soldiers in Revolt. Also talked about killing commanders/leaders (frepping?, I already forgot the term) in Vietnam and soldiers cheering. They are really trying to stir up our troops in Iraq, this looks like treason to me.
(My edit: thanks Hondo, for the correct word, fragging. All this is new to me and my head was spinning and I couldn't think. Anyway, there is no reason for them to talk about this in a current newsletter to soldiers. Of course they are just trying to give people evil thoughts. God, I hate them).
Last edited by msindependent on Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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msindependent
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:02 am Post subject: |
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From Traveling-Soldier.org
| Quote: | Know Your Rights!
If printed out, this newsletter is your personal property and cannot legally be confiscated from you. “Possession of unauthorized material may not be prohibited.” (DoD Directive 1325.6 Section 3.5.1.2) You have the right to posses one copy of any publication. You should be aware that if you distribute publications without the express permission of your commander you may be punished. Material can be impounded if a commander determines "that an attempt will be made to distribute". (DoD Directive 1325.6 Section 3.5.1.2) Having more than one copy of a publication is usually considered to be an attempt to distribute.
You have the legal right under the Uniform Code of Military Justice to attend protests and other political events provided that you are not in uniform.
You also have the right to publish your own publication as long as the work occurs off-base, on your own time, and with your own money and equipment. (DoD Directive 1325.6 Section 3.5.4)
For legal aid of any sort, call:
1-800-FYI-95GI
1-800-394-9544
Top | Back | Home
©2003 Traveling-Soldier.org |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| msindependent wrote: | | From Traveling-Soldier.org - Know Your Rights! |
 From reading these "rights" - it appears our DOD puts no constraints at all on troops being preyed upon with propaganda that urges them to not follow orders, in effect, to mutiny -- to come home and speak out against our military efforts, etc. (Wonder if that list contains all DOD Directives on this issue?) There are multitudes of organizations fervently using the internet right now to befriend and encourage soldiers to defy their commanders and even to desert, it seems to me that these activities are accepted by our gov't or they would have been stopped.
Perhaps this all falls under "freedom of speech" and cannot be touched, should not be touched? If this is true, then we'll just have to accept it as a necessary evil and come up with counter-measures, I guess --support the organizations that are supporting the efforts of our troops -- expose these anti-American organizations for what they are; let the troops know they are being used by these people in their greater effort to destabilize this country. (One is left to wonder about these allowed activities, considering what kerry & his little band, having bought into the communist anti-American propaganda and working on their behalf, were able to accomplish without the internet....) |
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Hondo
LCDR
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 423
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| msindependent wrote: |
You probably already saw the Jul 7, 2004 newsletter Resistance. It sited supposed Navy problems (some racial) and sited the 1975 book Soldiers in Revolt. Also talked about killing commanders/leaders (frepping?, I already forgot the term) in Vietnam and soldiers cheering. They are really trying to stir up our troops in Iraq, this looks like treason to me. :evil: |
The term was "fragging".
And, if I recall correctly, solicitation to commit murder is still a crime. Let's hope these "fine individuals" get carried away and step over the legal line.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill |
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d19thdoc
PO3
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:00 am Post subject: |
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The U.S. Code – the Federal criminal statutes (linked below) – contain ample provisions for dealing with these activities, just as they did in the 60’s and 70’s.
The interference with the military in time of war is considered more serious than in peace time.
Why these laws, along with the Logan Act on correspondence with enemy governments, and not to mention treason under the Constitution, were not enforced in regard to VVAW and Kerry has always bothered me. The time to enforce these laws is now, before these traitors gather enough support and political fellow-travelers to make prosecution difficult for any administration.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/115/toc.html
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide" |
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msindependent
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | From reading these "rights" - it appears our DOD puts no constraints at all on troops being preyed upon with propaganda that urges them to not follow orders, in effect, to mutiny -- to come home and speak out against our military efforts, etc. (Wonder if that list contains all DOD Directives on this issue?) There are multitudes of organizations fervently using the internet right now to befriend and encourage soldiers to defy their commanders and even to desert, it seems to me that these activities are accepted by our gov't or they would have been stopped.
Perhaps this all falls under "freedom of speech" and cannot be touched, should not be touched? If this is true, then we'll just have to accept it as a necessary evil and come up with counter-measures, I guess --support the organizations that are supporting the efforts of our troops -- expose these anti-American organizations for what they are; let the troops know they are being used by these people in their greater effort to destabilize this country. (One is left to wonder about these allowed activities, considering what kerry & his little band, having bought into the communist anti-American propaganda and working on their behalf, were able to accomplish without the internet....)
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I got the word out to an Army friend in Iraq. He is going to take notes if approached and also save for me any literature that he may receive. I'm also in process of getting a Marine to do the same. Doc, thanks for the caselaw. One way or another, these bastards need to be shut down. |
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Beatrice1000
Resource Specialist
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1179
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Thanks - I wanted to see the law on this -- but am a bit baffled as there appears cause to go after these groups? Two of the items referring to the military:
U.S.Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115:
| Quote: | Section 2387. Activities affecting armed forces generally
(a) Whoever, with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States:
--(1) advises, counsels, urges, or in any manner causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States; or
--(2) distributes or attempts to distribute any written or printed matter which advises, counsels, or urges insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States -
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
(b) For the purposes of this section, the term ''military or naval forces of the United States'' includes the Army of the United States, the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Naval Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, and Coast Guard Reserve of the United States; and, when any merchant vessel is commissioned in the Navy or is in the service of the Army or the Navy, includes the master, officers, and crew of such vessel. |
| Quote: | Section 2388. Activities affecting armed forces during war
(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or
Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so -
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
(b) If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (a) of this section and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be punished as provided in said subsection (a).
(c) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe or suspect, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(d) This section shall apply within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States, and on the high seas, as well as within the United States. |
How do these laws correlate with the “Rights” indicated at Traveling-Soldier.org? They are basically telling the soldiers "hey, this stuff designed to poison your heart and soul is okay, as long as you don't distribute it." Are their actions in this regard -- "freedom of speech," I suppose, somehow above the law indicated above??
** Traveling-Soldier.org: KNOW YOUR RIGHTS **
There must be something we are missing here -- some loophole for these activities -- as to why the military or the Justice Dept. or someone isn't going after these groups.... After reading the law above, I can't imagine what it is... ?
(misindependent: Thank you so much for taking action to get the word out -- and good advice regarding collecting evidence.) |
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