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The Civilian Element
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hanna
Rear Admiral


Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:18 am    Post subject: The Civilian Element Reply with quote

Thanks goes to the Swifties from Veterans and their families and people still enlisted, but it comes from civilians as well.

People like myself who have never been in the service or had family members in the service. The closest I come is my son-in-law was in the Air Force.

One thing I hope this effort has produced is an understanding among the Vietnam Veterans that people like myself did not hate them when they returned from Vietnam. We hated what Fonda/Kerry etc. were doing every bit as much as the Veterans did, BUT, we didn't have a clue as to what to do about it. We were the "Silent Majority" and we were passive. We are neither silent nor passive anymore. And with our participation in this cause and with our vote, we give the Vietnam Veterans and the Swifties long overdue Thanks.

The generation of soldiers once maligned will now receive the honor and respect they have so long deserved.

The Swifties did something else too that is downright astounding. The campaign they mounted against Kerry was phenominal. The media pundits are now trying to understand how so few people with so few dollars and zero political influence, could possibly have been so effective. It is hilarious to watch them trying to explain it:))) This campaign will be the new "model" for years to come. Its Great:)))

I have so enjoyed working with you all and I love each and every one of you.
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Uisguex Jack
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pose a intersting question for me.
This ellection is without question the first for the Internet to fully break out as a alternative news source and point of orginization.


Remember Howard Dean??? They said he was the bigest hippest thing ever to happen in the etherland of the WWW.

Seems to me after the Fat lady finished her song a band of brothers from the era of ovelletti typewriters, whiteout and blue books kicked some serious quaker oatmeal Bu!!

So Who kicked more but..... internet savvy youthfull deaniacs, or we square fools with the sixty million folks on the other side.
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hanna
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Posts: 701

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. Back in the 70's we didn't have any tools that would allow us to group together like we can now.

While the hippies were out protesting the war, we were working, raiising families etc. We could not run all over the country to protest the protestors. The media was then in their camp just as it is now, but much less accessible. They didn't have e-mail nor did their sponsors.

Access to information was limited and difficult and expensive to get.

Now, we can band together for a common cause, we can read/research and discover the truth of things.

It is a different world and the Old Media will soon be a thing of the past.
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sleeplessinseattle
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hanna wrote:
Good point. Back in the 70's we didn't have any tools that would allow us to group together like we can now.

While the hippies were out protesting the war, we were working, raiising families etc. We could not run all over the country to protest the protestors. The media was then in their camp just as it is now, but much less accessible. They didn't have e-mail nor did their sponsors.

Access to information was limited and difficult and expensive to get.

Now, we can band together for a common cause, we can read/research and discover the truth of things.

It is a different world and the Old Media will soon be a thing of the past.


We've seen the death of the old media before our very eyes during this campaign...they have eviscerated themselves for the "cause d' celebre d' Kerrie" and they no longer exist with any authority. The 60 million Bushies are also 60 million who do not trust the MSM. Further there are some on the fringe left that do not trust the MSM (who knows 10%, 20%?) That leaves only about 25% that even believe in the trustworthiness of the MSM - if we keep pressing them they'll either reform (like to some extent FOX has brought things to the table) or DIE. That's a true Vote or Die scenario in this election.
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Thanks W, Swifties, POWs & brave soldiers everywhere fighting for America and for freedom
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d19thdoc
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Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: New Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hanna wrote:
Quote:
Good point. Back in the 70's we didn't have any tools that would allow us to group together like we can now.
***
Now, we can band together for a common cause, we can read/research and discover the truth of things.

It is a different world and the Old Media will soon be a thing of the past.


Now we mass on the Plain of Troy armored in our pajamas, and together build an electronic horse as a gift to the Masters looking down on us from behind their high walled and dark-souled City.

We are like the loaves and fishes - we seem but a few, yet we feed the multitudes with the truth, and they will never be satisfied eating mere MSM food again.
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Navy_Navy_Navy
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Joined: 07 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's been one of the most exciting aspects of this election.

Look at the alphabet networks' ratings fall into the basement - while the number of conservative talk radio hosts has exploded in the last four years. The stations can sell air time on Hannity, Ingraham, Limbaugh, Reagan, Hewitt, Beck, et. al.

Watching the blogosphere take down those CBS forgeries was one of the most exciting things I've ever witnessed - you almost could NOT keep up with the lastest debunking, while it was happening.

Then, the NBC careful editing of Kerry's interview in which he finally admitted that his military records were not public.

What a rush! How sweet to wipe the smirks off the faces of the Kerry cheerleaders in the Corrupt Leftist Media and watch them wriggle and try to squirm away from any culpability.

It's been pretty amazing - watching a turning point in our culture while it's happening!

In clean jammies and bunny slippers, no less. Wink
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d19thdoc
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Joined: 17 May 2004
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Location: New Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People wonder how a civilized modern nation like Germany could have gone down the path they did in the 20's and 30's and 40's.

WE wonder how this nation could have become so diverted from what we old timers knew in the 50's and early 60's.

The answer is propaganda - which is what we have uncovered here and now, today.

I once saw one of those panel discussions on C-SPAN after the fall of the Soviet Union. One of the think tank speakers had researched in the newly opened KGB files. His hosts in Moscow told him that the KGB had a few American big media celebrities on their payroll, and said that, no matter what else they allowed to be unclassified, those names would never be revealed.

I wish I had saved that reference and citation.
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coldwarvet
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The Civilian Element Reply with quote

TRUTHIs the most powerful component in any political campaign? The pundits keep talking about how slow Kerry was to respond to the swiftvet charges. The fact is that Kerry never did respond to the swiftvet charges because there isn’t a way for him to get past the truth of the swiftvet charges.
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producehawk
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Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Ronnie reagan and larry O'dunghole are still shouting that the swiftys are liars, liars creepy liars. The total vindication of the swift vets and POW's will be had when these punks are totally shut up with the truth, and kerry is fully dishonored and in jail.
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brityank
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 25
Location: NSQ, PA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navy_Navy_Navy wrote:
That's been one of the most exciting aspects of this election.

It's been pretty amazing - watching a turning point in our culture while it's happening!

In clean jammies and bunny slippers, no less. Wink


With all due respect, we've managed to divert the Ship of State around this horrific hurricane, but we're still in danger from the after-effects of the storm.

Newsweek's article The Vets Attack is a primer on just how the Goebbels Media is continuing to spin the story and mislead the masses about the truth espoused by the Swiftees.

I fervently hope that the majority of the group here can find a way to continue taking this fight forward to take down traitor Kerry and his ilk permanently, and that includes his dismissal from the Senate. I respectfully submit that we have won a battle -- a very large one -- but the outcome of this Disinformational War is far from over, and with or without us will continue. Without the Swiftees as an honored focal point for tactics and procedures we could lose the war and see this nation sink into the socialist muck so admired by the Kerry ilk.

Thank you all -- the Founders and the Moderators -- for your vision and execution. It has shown that "Duty, Honor, Country" still has meaning to the freedom loving peoples of this nation and the world.
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brityank
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d19thdoc wrote:
hanna wrote:
Quote:
Good point. Back in the 70's we didn't have any tools that would allow us to group together like we can now.
***
Now, we can band together for a common cause, we can read/research and discover the truth of things.

It is a different world and the Old Media will soon be a thing of the past.


Now we mass on the Plain of Troy armored in our pajamas, and together build an electronic horse as a gift to the Masters looking down on us from behind their high walled and dark-souled City.

We are like the loaves and fishes - we seem but a few, yet we feed the multitudes with the truth, and they will never be satisfied eating mere MSM food again.


I agree, hanna, in the early 70's - I would have been classified a section 8, I could hardly cope with my life, let alone what the tv news was telling me about the war. I never saw any protestors where I lived, never knew anyone who talked bad about the veterans etc.; I had no clue that what Cronkite was saying wasn't true - I always figured if it was on the news, it was true. Of course, back then we only had the 3 main stations. They all said about the same thing. I lived in the naive world that we were free and were told the truth. Yipes! Sounds like I'm lucky I survived. Somehow I did. I'm gonna call my kids this weekend and make sure they are smarter than I was. Back then, we thought the new princess style phones were slick! We could never have accomplished what we did here in such a short time - imagine the time at a library doing research and holding meetings this would have taken!

d19thdoc, that was beautiful - the Plain of Troy etc. , think I'll copy it out and post on my wall - I'm gonna end up with a 'Wall of Swiftstuff'.

re: KGB and payroll - I think a few still are on it....
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
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d19thdoc
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Joined: 17 May 2004
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Location: New Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brityank wrote:
Quote:
Newsweek's article The Vets Attack is a primer on just how the Goebbels Media is continuing to spin the story and mislead the masses about the truth espoused by the Swiftees.

My email to Newsweek - for all the good it will do: BTW . . . does anyone know if the SwiftVets ad used the voice overs they claim (the sleazy implication is that the ads do not accurately reflect what Kerry said . . . typical). I listened again and it sure sounds like himself.
Quote:
The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ads depicting Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee did not include "voice overs." They included Kerry's own recorded voice.

Kerry did not meet in Paris with "some terrorists." He met with Madame N. T. Binh, the Foreign Minister of the PRG (the Viet Cong - our enemy in South Vietnam), and others in the government of North Vietnam (our enemy in the war). Kerry himself is the source for this "obscure" fact which your crack reporters apparently were not able to uncover; in the same Senate Committee testimony, transcripts of which have been widely available for months. What Kerry did not say is that he met again with the same people on at least one other occasion, and maybe more. That is publically available from the released FBI surveillance files on VVAW - also widely available for months.

How shocked would John Edwards have been to also find out that these meetings were established for the purpose of giving strategy and substantive direction to the anti-war movement in the U.S. That not only Kerry but numerous other of his close associates held similar collaborative meetings with these enemy government representatives in both Paris and Hanoi? Documents have now been discovered in the Vietnam Archive at Texas Tech University, captured enemy documents dating from the early 70's - which detail these connections and collaborations.

How shocked would Edwards have been to learn that Kerry's original discharge from the Navy was under other than honorable conditions, and that this kind of discharge had causes and consequences far more disgraceful to Kerry's record than anything the Swift Vets had alleged. Why haven't you talked to the former Secretary of the Navy or the Navy JAG officers familiar with these facts as recently published under the by-line of journalist Thomas Lipscombe? Aren't your investigative reporters curious as to why the discharge Kerry will admit to was six-years late, in 1978, as posted on the Kerry website?

Why can't you folks do serious reporting of major and significant facts, and let the American public know what they are really dealing with and who they are really voting for?

What makes you think your credibility will survive this kind of biased and deliberate blindness and cover-up? Or are you just incompetent?

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"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"
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brityank
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 25
Location: NSQ, PA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d19thdoc wrote:
brityank wrote:
Quote:
Newsweek's article The Vets Attack is a primer on just how the Goebbels Media is continuing to spin the story and mislead the masses about the truth espoused by the Swiftees.

My email to Newsweek - for all the good it will do: BTW . . . does anyone know if the SwiftVets ad used the voice overs they claim (the sleazy implication is that the ads do not accurately reflect what Kerry said . . . typical). I listened again and it sure sounds like himself.
Quote:
The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ads depicting Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee did not include "voice overs." They included Kerry's own recorded voice.

Kerry did not meet in Paris with "some terrorists." He met with Madame N. T. Binh, the Foreign Minister of the PRG (the Viet Cong - our enemy in South Vietnam), and others in the government of North Vietnam (our enemy in the war). Kerry himself is the source for this "obscure" fact which your crack reporters apparently were not able to uncover; in the same Senate Committee testimony, transcripts of which have been widely available for months. What Kerry did not say is that he met again with the same people on at least one other occasion, and maybe more. That is publically available from the released FBI surveillance files on VVAW - also widely available for months.

How shocked would John Edwards have been to also find out that these meetings were established for the purpose of giving strategy and substantive direction to the anti-war movement in the U.S. That not only Kerry but numerous other of his close associates held similar collaborative meetings with these enemy government representatives in both Paris and Hanoi? Documents have now been discovered in the Vietnam Archive at Texas Tech University, captured enemy documents dating from the early 70's - which detail these connections and collaborations.

How shocked would Edwards have been to learn that Kerry's original discharge from the Navy was under other than honorable conditions, and that this kind of discharge had causes and consequences far more disgraceful to Kerry's record than anything the Swift Vets had alleged. Why haven't you talked to the former Secretary of the Navy or the Navy JAG officers familiar with these facts as recently published under the by-line of journalist Thomas Lipscombe? Aren't your investigative reporters curious as to why the discharge Kerry will admit to was six-years late, in 1978, as posted on the Kerry website?

Why can't you folks do serious reporting of major and significant facts, and let the American public know what they are really dealing with and who they are really voting for?

What makes you think your credibility will survive this kind of biased and deliberate blindness and cover-up? Or are you just incompetent?


Good letter; doubt you will get a response or any notice in Newsweek.

As to Kerry's Congressional Testimony, that clip is an audio dup from www.wintersoldier.com so you can compare that the words in the Swift Vets ad are exactly whay Kerry said; and as you note the clip in the ad matches tone and cadence.
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brityank
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Me#1You#10
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has been much talk (dare I say criticism?) on this forum that the SwiftVet/POW campaign should be continued until the MSM is dragged, kicking and screaming, to an acknowledgement of the veracity of the SVPT charges against Kerry. May I respectfully disagree.

The TRUTH of John Kerry has been laid bare by these courageous veterans and TRUTH is the purview of both the community of journalists and historians who are worthy of the name. TRUTH will not be "imposed" on this body from "without"...it MUST come from "within". The SVPT has laid down the roadmarkers...let the objectivity of UNBIASED journalists and historians tell the tale... I am convinced it WILL be told.
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Tom Poole
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me#1You#10 wrote:
...let the objectivity of UNBIASED journalists and historians tell the tale... I am convinced it WILL be told.

Sorry to disagree but I do. I'm convinced the powerful media will implement ANY EXTREME, including forgery, libel, perjury and possibly violence, to have their way. Why do they do this you ask? In order to remain powerful, influential and wealthy, all the classical reasons. At this moment, it's not advantageous to expose Silky Pony. He's yesterday's news and his exposition would further damage their credibility.

They're content to let the dust settle with erroneous history already on the books. They're willing to wait a few years and refer back to this history as if it was proven as truth. They're willing to permit all references to Swiftees as liars, political pawns, and worse, to be used again if necessary. Their scruples, credibility and courage are gone. They were completely exposed during this campaign, but Silky was not. Some of us would like to see that oversight corrected.
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