SwiftVets.com

[stevieboy]

I heard it again on CNN's "Capitol Hill Gang" Saturday night. Novak (conservative) mentioned Kerry's 4 months in Vietnam. He was quickly corrected by the liberal apologists who noted the Swift command was Kerry's "second tour" in Vietnam. I heard Kerry say the same thing with much drama during the primaries "When I went ot Vietnam for my SECOND tour ...."

Hey, I'm not taking anything away from destroyer sailors. I was a Cold Warrior (CICO and 1stLT; USS PHARRIS FF-1094; 1977-1981). I and my shipmates, worked damned hard, lots of hours and little resources under President Carter. But let's be honest. Life on a large surface ship is a walk in the park versus slogging around in the countryside where people are trying to kill you. You sleep on the ground, eat crap, wear the same clothes for days/weeks and don't get to shower. Sorry my fellow ground pounders (and I love you guys), that is not the lifestyle aboard a large surface ship. Eggs to order at the wardroom table, folded napkins, dry sheets, laundry, and showers if your Chief Engineer is good.

My point is when Kerry talks about his "Second Tour" with you Swifties, he is really saying he did a full 12 months IN VIETNAM aboard GRINDLEY! Now I worked with Vietnam era destroyer sailors who got assigned to call for fire missions. My chief, as a young OS during the war, said they would occassionally receive fire from shore batteries. I understand some destroyers went into Haipong Harbor on "run and gun" missions. Now all of that is scary, but I don't think it compares to life on the delta or being a grunt in country!

The web site needs to make a comment about this much like it instructs on how to read FITREPS. You need to make people understand what the first tour was really like. He is obviously a storyteller and will say anything to win this election.

He has also been my senator for 17 years. I will tell you vets as a Massachsetts resident what you already know - there is nothing there!

Thank you vets for your service, especially you 'Nam Vets.

[ASPB]

As I understand it he did less than a full Westpac (6 months) on the Gridley. I'll look it up later and provide the details if someone else doesn't have them immediately available.

The Gridley cruise was from 09 Feb 68 to 27 May 68 with a 1 day stop in Danang. It's interesting that he requested Swift Boat duty after 1 day at sea on the Gridley---10 Feb 68. Seasick??? Seriously, I wonder what that's all about. He reported aboard on 09 June 67, his first sea duty, and requests a transfer 1 day after leaving Long Beach for the Westpac?

Source: Timeline-"Tour of Duty", Douglas Brinkley.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[stevieboy]

I think it's a little sicker than than seasickness ASPB. The Swiftboat thing is all about being JFK! PT 109 = Swift 94. John Forbes Kerry = John Fitzgerald Kennedy. It was a high risk gamble he had to do to punch the tickets he needed to be his idol. Like your site says, he got the medals and the film footage, check-in-the-box, no sense hangin' around.

In any event, I still think the world should know how really tough that "1st tour" was. Do any GRIDLEY sailors post on this site?

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

I wasn't there, and almost all of what I know comes from books, newspapers, television and internet postings so if my comments are out of line, I'll retract them.

John Kerry is the first Navy person I've ever heard who made part of a ship's tour into a "tour in Vietnam." I've heard people say they served off the coast in support this operation or that - read essays on the internet, watched television interviews, etc. - they don't call it a "tour in Vietnam."

Don't misunderstand me - the contributions all servicemembers in support of our operations in Vietnam were important.

I've known (or "met" on the internet) several sailors who were on ships that were supporting ground combat operations. They went to sea for six months, they went back in port for rehab/outfitting/restocking/etc and then they were back to sea in operations, again - and so on, until their tour on the ship was finished. (Two years? Three?) It was often a very tough job and they deserve our thanks.

But Kerry, himself, seems to denigrate his own (six-month?) service on the USS Gridley by attempting to manage the public's perception of what that was. (And this isn't new, by the way - his campaign put it out very early that he was a highly-decorated two-tour veteran of Vietnam. This was no longer on his web site, last I checked - after an article called this statement into question.)

He is clearly attempting to imply that he did two tours in Vietnam - which, for the general public, conjures up images of sloughing through the mud and running through napalmed jungle.

For how many people who served in that era does part of a WESTPAC equate to a "tour in Vietnam?"

It's like the situation where "ribbons and medals are interchangeable" - you can hear him spinning the answer before anyone even nails him with the question, can't you?
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[DADESID]

According to OPNAVNOTE 1650 dated 18 Sept '02 (enclosure 3), during Kerry's tour on USS Gridley, she was entitled to the Vietnam Service Medal for the periods 16MAR68 to 29MAR68 and 3APR68 to 7MAY68.

[stevieboy]

Yes DADESID, he can keep that medal as can all the other hardworking sailors who served in during the Vietnam War. Navy_Navy_Navy makes my point with his remarks. I never heard of a retraction. Again the people who used the term were television commentators and apologists.

I'll throw in another angle to this. The Dems belittle Bush for strapping a high powered rocked to his butt and defying gravity several times but we should let destroyer duty aboard GRIDLEY pass as a "tour in Vietnam" without comment or amplification?

I searched the National Archives on line: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/title_list.jsp
Select "Naval History" in the pull down menu labeled "Subject". Review the data. GRIDLEY neither shot, nor was she shot at in Vietnam. You are wlecome to check the records yourself. BTW of the 433 incidents of hostile fire against warships recorded in the datasheet, there were only 5 deaths. Not exactly hazardous duty.

I did 5 years active Navy and retired from the reserves. I'm not "dissing" my fellow servicemembers. As Navy_Navy_Navy says they worked hard (and so did I). I just want people to understand that he was not "in-country" during this first tour. Maybe even Kerry needs to understand that! When you live a lie for too long it becomes your relative truth!

[DADESID]

[The bandit]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[DADESID]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

No, I'm sorry, I didn't make my point very clearly - I understood your post perfectly, DADESID.

I was just underlining it.
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~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[ASPB]

Here's the dialogue when someone says the served in Vietnam.

In Country?

Yah!

Where?

The South Clina Sea!

HMMMMM! See much action?
_________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[The bandit]

[Tad Belknap]

Just a reminder..between the last 2 democratic presidental canidates Al Gore and John Kerry.....
COMBINED they didn't pull a tour of duty in Vietnam !
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27th M.A.S.H. Chu Lai
95th Evac. Hosp. Danang
"71"

[War Dog]

Guys and Gals, if you served one day in the combat zone or combat support zone for the Vietnam War which encompassed Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia and/or Laos, then you were eligible for the VNSM or Vietnam Service Medal. The awarding of ribbons and medals are not a qualifying factor for if a person served a 'tour' in any country. In order to be credited for a full 'tour' of Vietnam, and/or the Vietnam War Combat Zone, you must have served a complete tour, which for the Air Force, Marines, Navy and Coast Guard was 12 months, and for the Army, 13 months. I spent 12 months over in SouthEast Asia at Korat RTAFB, pounding that perimeter fence with my German Shepherd, in the US Air Force, and I damn sure served a full tour!

A US Navy Ship on a WESTPAC can be awarded and be eligible for numerous ribbons and medals by supporting an action in time of war, as well as forays into territorial waters of a nation, but that ship does not qualify as it's sailors as serving a 'tour' in the nation(s) in which the war is being fought. Having spent over 16 years in the US Navy and serving on five different ships, including one WESTPAC, one MedCruise, and nine months over in the MidEast during Desert Shield/Storm, I know what I am talking about!

John Kerry is not even eligible for claiming that he did one tour of Vietnam, much less the claimed two. Even with the argument that if a person served 3/4 or 2/3 of his tour, then he is credited with a full tour, Kerry's 4 months and a few days falls far short!

Remember, that not only John Kerry, but damn near each and every Democrat and Liberal have no compulsions whatsoever in lying, spreading false accusations, untrue propaganda, etc., in order to achieve that which they desire so much, which is getting back in power. Remember also, that their chief weapon is the lie, and that they believe that if they repeat it enough, the really stupid people in our nation will firmly believe it, and will influence other stupid people to not only believe it, but spread it to even more stupid people.

Friggin' War Woof!
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When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."