SwiftVets.com

[Mother]

Apparently, they'd just rather do it here.

Yahoo News
note: URL converted to hypertext

Pacers brawl with Detroit spectators in NBA nightmare melee

Sat Nov 20, 3:30 AM ET Sports - AFP
AUBURN HILLS, United States (AFP) - An epic brawl involving Indiana Pacers (news) players and angry Detroit Pistons (news) fans turned into a near-riot, the most disgraceful day in National Basketball Association history yet.

The melee featured players and spectators trading punches in the stands and on the court as police and security guards attempted in vain to restore order.

"I felt like I was fighting for my life out there," said Pacers coach Rick Carlisle. "I've never seen or been involved in anything like this. There were things being thrown at (players), people coming out attacking players."

The Pacers led 97-82 when the game was stopped with 45 seconds remaining, but it was hard to say there were any winners on a shameful night in sports history that could lead to tighter security at future NBA games.

"That was the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life," said Pistons coach Larry Brown, who guided the United States NBA squad to Athens Olympic bronze. "I'm just embarrassed for our league and disappointed being a part of this."

Indiana's Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal all punched unruly fans, many of whom hurled plastic bottles, cups and even a chair at players in a shocking incident that will be a black eye for the NBA for years to come.

"There's going to be a lot of ramifications," Brown said. "I've just never seen anything like that. Between the lines a lot of things happen. There's no room for any violence."

Sparking the dispute was a hard foul by Indiana's Ron Artest on Detroit's Ben Wallace with 45 seconds remaining. Wallace responded by shoving Artest backwards. Artest walked away but Wallace followed.

Players lined up along the sideline as coaches from both squads separated them, trying to restrain troublemakers and cool tensions as players traded challenges and insults.

Artest lay on the scorer's table resting as order was restored when a drink cup was hurled at him, striking him in the face. Artest leaped up and raced into the stands after the man he thought hurled the object.

Whether self defense or over-the-top response, the fuse was lit and anger erupted. Artest punched one man as another hurled a drink into his face and yet another struck him from behind.

Jackson charged into the fray, punching a spectator in the face with a right hand that sent the fan to the floor. Later Artest would punch a fan who went onto the court to confront him.


O'Neal delivered a punishing right to the face to another fan who came onto the floor. As he and teammates tried to leave the court, one spectator hurled a folded metal chair at O'Neal.

Popcorn, beer and soda and other objects were dumped onto Indiana players as they were escorted to locker rooms under the stands by dozens of guards and police officers.


Referee Tommy Nunez was cut in the head by a thrown bottle.

Police have reviewed videotapes of the incident as possible evidence in criminal proceedings while league officials, who had no immediate comment, were likely to impose unprecedented suspensions and fines.

The two teams next play each other on Christmas Day in Indianapolis.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/22/hunters.slain/index.html

Five hunters gunned down in Wisconsin woods
Police: Dispute over deer stand apparently led to killings
Monday, November 22, 2004 Posted: 3:24 AM EST (0824 GMT)

Emergency personnel gather near the shooting scene Sunday.
Shock and dismay follow news of the deadly rampage.
Police investigators and other authorities gather near the scene of the hunters' killings.

(CNN) -- Sheriff's deputies are investigating the killings of five hunters Sunday in northwest Wisconsin -- bloodshed apparently sparked by a dispute over a hunting spot. A suspect has been arrested.

"This is completely nuts," said Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle of the Sawyer County Sheriff's Department. "Why? I mean, five people dead because somebody was trespassing on property. It makes no sense."

Three others were wounded, said Julie Veness, an emergency medical technician in Exeland, Wisconsin.

Saturday marked the opening of the nine-day deer season, and Veness said the shootings appeared to stem from a dispute over a deer stand -- an elevated position from which hunters can target deer.

"Apparently, the person was asked to leave and get out of his deer stand, and he didn't take it very well and he fired away at them," she said.

The suspect apparently got lost in the woods after the rampage. He was led out by a pair of hunters who were not aware of the shootings, according to Zeigle.

"We were very thankful to take him into custody. No one else got hurt," Zeigle said. "When he was taken into custody, his gun was empty."

Jennifer Greshowak, a spokeswoman for Lakeview Medical Center in Rice Lake, said three men from the same hunting party were brought to that facility after suffering gunshot wounds. One of the three was transferred to a hospital in nearby Marshfield, she said.

The other two -- identified by relatives as Denny Drew and Lauren Hesebeck -- were recovering from surgery at Lakeview. Drew was in serious condition, while Hesebeck was listed in fair condition, their families said in a statement issued Sunday night.

"Our families certainly appreciate the thoughts and prayers of this close-knit community, and encourage you to think and pray for the other families involved," the statement said.

Veness said the killings have shocked Exeland, a village of 219 people about 135 miles northeast of Minneapolis.

"It just doesn't happen in this neck of the woods," she said. "We don't expect any of this to happen."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6555449/
Camden, N.J., named most-dangerous city
Detroit relinquishes title just days after NBA meleeThe Associated Press
Updated: 5:31 a.m. ET Nov. 22, 2004TRENTON, N.J. - Camden has been named the nation’s most-dangerous city, snatching the top spot from Detroit, according to a company’s annual ranking based on crime statistics.

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Officials in Camden, which was ranked third last year, downplayed the dubious designation Sunday, saying many steps have already been taken to reduce crime in the city.

“We must give our people jobs, training and opportunity,” said City Councilman Ali Sloan-El, who pointed out that Camden’s poverty is an important contributing factor to its high crime rate.

Atlanta, St. Louis and Gary, Ind. rounded out the top five in the most dangerous city rankings, which was to be released Monday by Morgan Quitno Corp. The company publishes “City Crime Rankings,” an annual reference book that will be published next month. Detroit fell to second in this year’s list.

However, company president Scott Morgan told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch in its Sunday edition that he had been unaware that St. Louis police omitted 5,760 crimes from their 2003 crime data. Provided with the correct data, Morgan found that St. Louis would have switched places with Atlanta.

The news wasn’t all bleak for New Jersey. The state’s Brick Township was rated the second-safest city for the third straight year, behind only Newton, Mass., while the Garden State’s Dover Township was ranked tenth. The other communities in the top five were Amherst, N.Y., which had been ranked as the safest city for the past four years, followed by Mission Viejo, Calif., and Clarkstown, N.Y.

The rankings look at the rate for six crime categories: Murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary and auto theft. It compares 350 cities with populations of 75,000 or more that reported crime data to the FBI. Final 2003 statistics, released by the FBI in October, were used to determine the rankings.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6520848/
5 arrested in turkey-hurling incident
Bird thrown at car critically injured driver
The Associated Press
Updated: 11:11 a.m. ET Nov. 19, 2004RONKONKOMA, N.Y. - Five teenagers were arrested in the hurling of a frozen turkey that smashed through a motorist’s windshield, critically injuring her.

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Police said Ryan Cushing, 18, threw the turkey from a car he and the other teens were riding in Saturday. It smashed through the car window of a 44-year-old woman who was driving in the other direction. A passenger in the car took hold of the steering wheel and guided it to the side of the road, police said.

The driver was in critical condition at Stony Brook University Hospital.

Cushing was arrested on charges of first-degree assault, reckless endangerment, forgery, criminal mischief and criminal possession of stolen property. He and the other teens allegedly stole a credit card to buy the turkey at a supermarket.

The other four teens were charged with criminal possession of stolen property.

Ronkonkoma is in the approximate geographic center of New York’s Long Island, about 50 miles east of New York City.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[scotty61]

What amazes me about the deer hunters is that apparently no one shot back.
_________________
John Kerry. A Neville Chamberlain for our times.

[Inatizzy]

Man oh man, what a total clusterf***. I agree, why didn't somebody shoot back at the SOB? I mean he had time to pop a cap in 7 people but no one could shoot back?

And all this OVER A DEER STAND???? <shakes head>

DAY-UMMM.

And these are the ever so enlightened "blue" states who say we shouldn't be shooting the terrorists in Iraq. Well hell yeah, it all makes sense now. Why shoot a terrorist over a beheading when you can shoot a few of your neighbors for asking you to leave their deer blind.

[Slednfool]

[Inatizzy]

[Slednfool]

[Samileino]

The latest on the hunting tragedy is that he was in a deer stand of the group that encountered him. He was told/asked to get out as he was on private property. For whatever reason he became enraged came out of the stand took his scope of his semi automatic and shot I believe two people. One of these persons had a walkie talkie and radioed to camp they had been shot and to get help. Friends came out into the woods to help and as they did they were systematically hunted down and shot. The people were found many yards from each other showing that he followed them and shot them not that he was in any danger of them. I've still not heard if they had their weapons, which I don't understand myself as a hunter, but it may have been that the initial victims were just scouting the area or walking it and their friends may not have known that the shooting was intentional and just came quickly to help give them aid not thinking there was a nutcase purposefully shooting them.
The person in custody is a 36 year old Hmong man who from what I heard has been in this country for 26 years There is a VERY large population of Hmongs in Minnesota as we took many refugees recently and while this may not be related at all we've had a lot of problems with poaching from members of this community. Some take over the limit, hunt out of season, or take animals that are not legal and this goes from fishing to songbirds to other animals.
The whole thing is just horrid and I'm still in shock. I still don't believe it at all. I'm so glad next year when I go out I have private land in Minnesota I can hunt on that I'm not too worried about being infiltrated. Most people I hunt with just call the DNR or the sheriff is someone is on their land or refuses to leave, but this reaction makes no sense considering they never hurt this man. I just don't understand at all.
The Pacers/Pistons thing is ridiculous and I hope that the fans are held accountable too. I believe the players deserve some harsh actions, but I think it's a bit much right now. Overall I think the NBA really has to look at the thug mentality they've let go on for so long. I don't even really watch anymore cause it's no longer about the game.

Sami

[Mother]

Samileino wrote: ...

we've had a lot of problems with poaching from members of this community. Some take over the limit, hunt out of season, or take animals that are not legal and this goes from fishing to songbirds to other animals.


Bet they're all Kerry supporters. Could this group have been the same who attacked Republican offices? Why in the sam hill didn't ya'll invite Kerry to go hunting in Minnesota?

[Samileino]

Oh believe me Mother if we could have out here in the VERY red counties we would have invited Kerry to go hunting it would have been open season ummm...on deer yeah that's it.
Don't blame all of us up here just by the stupidity of our metro or union areas Huge problem in the Twin Cities for years since Wellstone with "buying votes" especially for cigarettes and other things. Up north their brains are still so frozen they believe in the union is all I can think of (sorry can't explain it I'm a transplanted hoosier and my home state had no problem

Sami

[Digger]

Now we're seeing the real face of the "Great Liberal Satan"
_________________
Hey swifty, I'm with you, Just watch you don't get "Kerry'd away in the propwash

Sgt. Maj. Seamus D.D. MacNemi R.M.C. Ret.

[Darkhorse18]

I have always been a supporter of an open season year round on any type of game.........anything...........no license needed. My only caveat is that you only get to hunt with a pointy stick……no guns and no bows just the old pointy stick.

[Beatrice1000]

[rb325th]

What do either of these stories have to do with the Title of this Thread? How do you turn this into a Political Subject based on Liberals and Blue States? You have me mightily confused here as to how you made this leap.
These are stories about idiocy at a basketball Game and a tragic shooting.
Did the Hunter shoot because the other hunters opposed/supported the War and he did/did not?
Did the fight start at the basketball game because of remarks about the War?
Pretty sure the answer to that is an absolute negative!
I do not see the need to create a story where one does not exsist. Please keep it factual.
_________________
U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT

[Bystander]

Aw, c'mon rb, lighten up. I think it points out the idiocy of those who decided to go 'blue.' With my out of state relatives, I'm still trying to live down the fact that I reside about 15 miles from the Palace of Auburn Hills where the players made such a$$*s of themselves. Heck--we didn't get as much publicity when we took the NBA title! Go figure--
_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
..................................Eleanor Roosevelt

[Beatrice1000]